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Old August 5th, 2013, 02:57 PM   #1
Galro
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Street Clutter; Road Markings, Traffic Island etc. and the Importance of it. Your opinion?

Following on the discussion here, what's your opinion on street clutter and how important is it to you? Feel free to post examples of how you think it should be and how should not.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #2
El_Greco
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Its ugly. Dangerous. Unnecessary. And most people agree.

Quote:
The government is urging councils in England to cut unnecessary road signs, railings and advertising hoardings in a bid to make streets tidier and safer.

Campaigners have said lots of signs are unsightly, unnecessary and can leave motorists confused.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11092590

Unnecessary road signs, bollards and bins are cluttering up our streets, according to the conservation group English Heritage.

Britain is the most over-signed country on earth. We will soon have street signs saying "caution new street sign ahead


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...st/3739730.stm

England's historic streets are blighted by bollards, bins, broken paving and other clutter, says English Heritage.

English Heritage says more than 20 different agencies are involved in installing items on streets, without any co-ordination between them.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3741788.stm

Ministers have warned that excessive signs can be a distraction to motorists and make roads appear "unattractive".

The AA motoring organisation said it was "blindingly obvious" to its members that there were too many signs.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20901026

Britain's streets are becoming increasingly hazardous for people with sight loss to negotiate, a survey of street clutter by Guide Dogs has found.

http://www.guidedogs.org.uk/news/201.../#.Uf-TStKshiQ
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Well statistics (see Ken&Chelsea), politicians, people, drivers (AA), heritage bodies (EH) and disability groups (Guide Dogs) all say what I say.



Just how the street should be - cluterless. The problem (if there is such thing at all) is driving culture. In Naples drivers wear t-shirts with black diagonal stripe so they dont have to wear seat-belts. Incidentally Naples and Italy are the places, where as a pedestrian, I feel the safest. Its like shared-surface rolled out across the country.
For me, the main statistic is not some politicians’ nonsense which they are telling day and night but the reports done by professionals, and professionals in this country are Department of Transport, basta.

Their reports show that number of accidents and deaths are at lowest point ever and keep dropping:

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...es-q1-2013.pdf

I don't even know how to comment your second statment, cluterless streets where people are parking on pedestrian’s crossings because nothing says they cannot do it. How cool is it. May be I should reference you to my first picture of roads in Africa? No clutter too, no signs, or anything.

Let's all drive like in Naples, maybe I won't talk to you next year because either me or you will be dead by now. I also feel good in Italy because you can basically do whatever you want on the roads there. Is it what you are suggesting here? It’s called anarchy and not very much tolerated by majority of people usually.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #4
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Yeah politicians talk about safety for the lulz as do the Guide Dogs, AA claim theres too much clutter for the same reason, Kensington and Chelseas statistics must be a fabrication and EH are just a bunch of idealists living in the dream world!

It is curious how your statistics dont say a thing about the clutter, what they do say is that - "these large falls were at least partly due to the large change in weather conditions" which "reduced the numbers of vulnerable road users".

Regarding Rome. Once again youre not reading what Im saying, perhaps deliberately so (maybe you should mention France too, just for the sake of it?). I said it is to do with driving culture and nothing else. Put up traffic islands in Naples and I bet they will soon be removed by the locals.

Im not advocating anarchy, Im advocating less clutter. Which as has been seen serve no other purpose than to make streets ugly and confusing. Its all about education, awareness and common sense. Not nanny-state.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
For me, the main statistic is not some politicians’ nonsense which they are telling day and night but the reports done by professionals, and professionals in this country are Department of Transport, basta.

Their reports show that number of accidents and deaths are at lowest point ever and keep dropping:
You do know that, in general, authorities have been reducing clutter for a number of years now right? I can think of a number of areas of London that have seen a clear reduction (e.g. Russell Square, Angel).

Tfl boast of actively removing excessive barriers and signs when redeveloping a junction or streetscape. One of the main aims is removing guardian rails (PGR), with Tfl claiming they've removed them at 150 junctions and on 200 crossings across central London. They even produced a 'Legible London Scheme' with the aim of reducing, in their words, 'street clutter' around 3 or so years ago. You can find a guidance online.

Quote:
Introducing Legible London in your area can encourage walking, reduce street clutter and improve links to businesses and local attractions - making where you live a better place for everyone.
In otherwords, the correlation isn't near as clear cut as you're making out.
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Last edited by kerouac1848; August 6th, 2013 at 11:13 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #6
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How shared space prevents accidents

I love the look of the shared space transformation of Exhibition Road.

Streetview: https://maps.google.no/maps?q=Exhibi...173.39,,0,0.07
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Old August 8th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #7
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Another shared space street in the UK: New Road, Brigthon.


http://gehlcitiesforpeople.dk/2010/0...pace-for-real/


http://econode.blogspot.no/2011/01/n...-brighton.html


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...ared_space.jpg

At streetview: https://maps.google.no/maps?q=New+Ro...,195.95,,0,0.5
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Old January 1st, 2014, 08:58 AM   #8
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Awesome street pictures i ever seen
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Old January 19th, 2015, 10:43 PM   #9
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Something that bothers me are regulation signs with many exceptions.

You can't actually read them while driving.

This happens often regarding on-street parking.
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Old January 24th, 2015, 01:56 AM   #10
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I am confused. What do we mean here by clutter? And of what? Are we talking roadsigns? Street architecture? signs? Cafes and shops? Litter? And for that matter, are we talking clutter as in chaos, or clutter as an alternative to a lack of things?

I personally hate clutter. To me clutter is lots of useless stuff that gets in the way, that makes a place look messy and unkempt. You can be neat (not have clutter) and still have lots of things. I think Japan does a good job of this. You can also have lots of clutter, and still not have any street character. I am thinking English intersections here, with far too many road signs and traffic control devices, which make driving difficult, distract drivers from watching out for pedestrians and other vehicles, and which make some intersections very unfriendly to pedestrian because the signs and control devices overwhelm the space.
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