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Old August 27th, 2013, 04:37 AM   #1
Jasper90
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Venice | The city explained by a Venetian

Hi everyone
The purpose of this thread is to answer to any questions regarding one of the most beautiful, unique and misterious cities of the world: Venice.

Quote:
How does this city work?
How is it to live in Venice?
What kind of services do you have in your city?
That's just an example of the questions I'm gonna answer on this thread. Please feel free to ask me anything you wish, and I'll be glad to explain.

I'm going to divide this work in a few "episodes", like a TV show

Please subscribe to this thread!

Here's the index of my posts:
1) General information
2) Cars!
3) Byzantine architecture - Churches
4) Byzantine architecture - Civil buildings
5) Industrial area: Porto Marghera and its conversion
6) Demography
7) Industrial area: San Giuliano and polluted areas around the city
8) Demolished historical buildings - Napoleonic times
9) Demolished historical buildings - Campo Manin
10) Tourism-related issues
11) Parks and gardens
12) Housing issues: historical conservation vs liveable houses
13) Unrealized projects: Lagoon underground, offshore harbour and something else
14) Venice Lagoon: early hydraulic works
15) Venice Lagoon: tides and their mechanism
16) Venice Lagoon: high tides and lifestyle
17) Venice Lagoon: MOSE project (mobile dam system to prevent the city from high tides)
18) Venice Lagoon: MOSE and its controversies
19) The Greek Orthodox Community and Institute
20) Crowd
21) Venice Lagoon: the effect of tides on the ground floor of buildings
22) Venice Lagoon: low tides and experimental renovation of the foundations
23) Venetian buildings: San MoisŔ church and Hotel Bauer
24) Ancient Greece: the 4 lions in front of the Arsenal
25) Unrealized projects: trans-lagoon highway and street rectification
26) Unrealized projects: Masieri Memorial, by Frank Lloyd Wright
27) Unrealized projects: New Hospital, by Le Corbusier
28) Unrealized projects: Congress Hall, by Louis Kahn
29) Unrealized projects: alternative Rialto Bridge, by Andrea Palladio.
30) Columns in St Mark's Square
31) Columns with St Mark's Lion in other cities
32) Sewage
33) Services: Healthcare (part 1)
34) Services: Healthcare (part 2)
35) Services: Healthcare locations (by ricpast)
36) History of architecture - Byzantine, Gothic, Renaissance, Baroque, Neoclassical
37) History of architecture - Historicism in the 19th century
38) History of architecture - Art Nouveau in Lido
39) History of architecture - Historicist popular housing before World War II
40) History of architecture - Rationalism and Monumentalism
41) History of architecture - Some other Rationalist buildings, and new islands
42) History of architecture - Contemporary interventions and the "return to Venetianity". Area Saffa by Gregotti
43) History of architecture - Contemporary popular housing by Bortoluzzi, and Casa della Marinarezza
44) Oldest building in Venice?
45) Moisture and humidity
46) San Lorenzo Church and a little more about Sports Palace
47) WWII Bombings - General information
48) WWII Bombings - Operation Bowler
49) Sestieri: general information
50) Bridges: Rialto
51) Venetian language: General information on languages in Italy (by Feo)
52) Venetian language: Detail about Venetian itself (with audio sample)
53) Bridges: Accademia
54) Bridges: Scalzi
55) Bridges: Costituzione (Calatrava)
56) My opinion on modern insertion in historical context
57) Sestieri: Cannaregio I - Strada Nova, industrial areas, Ghetto
58) Sestieri: Cannaregio II - Fondamenta de la Misericordia
59) Sestieri: Cannaregio III - Moorish/Moreans area
60) Sestieri: Cannaregio IV - Madonna dell'Orto and Sant'Alvise
61) Sestieri: Cannaregio V - Fondamente Nove and Gesuiti
62) Cuisine: introduction
63) Cuisine: Spaghetti with cuttlefish ink
64) Cuisine: crabs
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Venice | The city explained by a Venetian

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Last edited by Jasper90; November 20th, 2013 at 02:35 AM. Reason: Updated index
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Old August 27th, 2013, 05:08 AM   #2
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1) General information

Venice is located in Veneto region, in north-eastern Italy, in the middle of Venice Lagoon.

The city district has 260,000 inhabitants, and it's generally divided in three parts:

1) Mainland: the city of Mestre and Marghera, and a few smaller fractions. Total population: 170,000
2) Venice Historical Centre: about 60,000 inhabitants
3) The islands: Lido (17,265 inhabitants), Murano (4,616), Burano (2,724), Sant'Erasmo (723), Pellestrina (4,063) and a few smaller islands. Total population: about 30,000.

Mestre is about 6 km far from Venice centre, and they're generally considered twin cities because they're very close to each other and share their major and administration. Many of Mestre residents have moved there from Venice because of lower house prices.

The whole city district is the largest city in Veneto, and it's also the capital and administrative center of the region.

The official language is Italian, but most of the inhabitants can also speak Venetian language.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 05:50 AM   #3
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2) Cars

Now let's go immediately to one of the core questions of Venice: transport.

in 1846 the Austrians, who ruled the city at the time, built a railway bridge which still connects Venice to Mestre station, and to the rest of the national railway.

In 1933 a road bridge (Ponte della LibertÓ, Freedom Bridge) was built next to the existing one, giving cars the opportunity to reach Venice. At the end of the bridge, a bus terminal and a very big car park was built: it was the largest covered garage in the world at the time!

A new island was built from 1958 throughout the 60s, next to Venice and the bridge, in order to host some new garages. The island is called Tronchetto.

Nowadays there are 4 railway tracks and 2 car lanes per direction on the Freedom bridge. A tram network is currently being built (Translohr) and will share the first traffic lane with car and buses traffic.
There's a very narrow bicycle and pedestrian path on the side of the bridge, which should be upgraded soon.

Here's a map of the Venetian Lagoon. I've shown where cars are allowed, and where they're banned.



This is a zoom of Venice centre



These are pictures of Ponte della LibertÓ. Unfortunately, the flower-looking lamps have been removed and replaced with tram poles.

image hosted on flickr

Venise - Ponte della Liberta di ffumeron, su Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Ponte della LibertÓ di efilpera, su Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Fiat Regata berlina saloon Capitaneria di Porto Guardia Costiera Ponte della LibertÓ Venice Italy 2004 di Patrick_Glesca, su Flickr


And this is Piazzale Roma, the very messy bus terminal, seen from the new pedestrian bridge by Calatrava.

image hosted on flickr

Piazzale Roma di M_AG, su Flickr
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Last edited by Jasper90; June 7th, 2014 at 04:17 AM. Reason: changed image hosting
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Old August 27th, 2013, 09:09 AM   #4
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Nice idea for a thread, if someone doesn't understand, sborighe over!!!

My regards to the noble lion!
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Old August 28th, 2013, 01:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab87 View Post
Nice idea for a thread, if someone doesn't understand, sborighe over!!!

My regards to the noble lion!
Thanks, I'll keep up with the hard work! If you wish to help, I'd be happy

If someone doesn't understand or like this thread... Ghe sboro sora!
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Old August 28th, 2013, 09:34 AM   #6
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Are there any examples of the Byzantine architecture surviving in Venice besides the Saint Mark's?
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Old August 29th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #7
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Byzantine Venice, 1st part - churches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Index_LT View Post
Are there any examples of the Byzantine architecture surviving in Venice besides the Saint Mark's?
Hi! Thank you fot your question



There are many remaining buildings from Byzantine period. A very famous example of Romanic-Byzantine is St Mary and Donato's church, in Murano. It was built in the 12th century, and restored about 30 years ago by the lovely British charity "Venice in Peril Fund".

image hosted on flickr

Murano church di rhugo, su Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Murano church di Miss*K, su Flickr

Another notable example is the Basilica of Santa Maria Assunta in Torcello island. The island was the first inhabited center of Venice lagoon, before Venice itself, but now it's nearly uninhabited at the moment: it has 15 residents!

The present Basilica was built in 1008 and hosts a very beautiful mosaic of the Last Judgement. It's the building on the left, whereas the church on the right is Santa Fosca (12th century). Santa Fosca is notable because it has Greek cross shape, typical of Byzantine architecture.

image hosted on flickr

Torcello di lostghost, su Flickr

EDIT: Here I've added a picture of Saint Mark's Basilica, which is the most beautiful and famous example of Byzantine architecture!! (With snow)

image hosted on flickr

Snow in Piazza San Marco di manhattanx39, su Flickr
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Old August 29th, 2013, 12:20 AM   #8
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Neat tread Jasper.

One question from me: Do you think it is realistic with a revitalization of the industrial areas at the mainland, closest to Venice, like many European cities have done? I'm thinking to build something like this or this. I.e. something with a modern twist on the Venice style built up channels.

And are there any developments currently planned or being built in Venice besides the MOSE-project?

Last edited by Galro; August 29th, 2013 at 12:32 AM.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:51 AM   #9
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Byzantine Venice, part 2 - civil buildings

@Galro: that's a very interesting question, I'll be answering later.


There are some other examples of Byzantine architecture, although heavily modified, in sone palaces on the Grand Canal in Venice. The most notable examples are the twin Ca' Loredan and Ca' Farsetti, which now host the City Hall. Only the first two floors are Byzantine, whereas the other floors are from Renaissance and from the 19th century.

Keep an eye on the stone decorations above the windows: they're called patere, and they're widespread all around Venice because they've survived 15th century renovation of Byzantine buildings to Gothic style.

image hosted on flickr

Veneziako udaletxea kanaletik - CÓ Loredan di kixmi71, su Flickr

The most ancient palace on the Grand Canal is Ca' Da Mosto, from the 13th century. It's a typical warehouse-palace (fontego, fondaco in Italian), where goods could be loaded on boats from the doors on the water.
Like usual, only ground and first floor are from Byzantine times, whereas the other 2 floors are from 16th and 19th century. The most interesting Byzantine features are decorations on the facade. It's undergoing restoration works at the moment.

image hosted on flickr

Ca' da Mosto di GwenaŰl Piaser, su Flickr

A very interesting example of Byzantine and Neo-Byzantine architecture is the Fontego dei Turchi (Turkish warehouse).
It was built in the first half of the 13th century, and was used as a residence for Turkish people and as a warehouse-shop for their goods.

It was heavily renovated between 1860 and 1880, completely changing its looks and adding the two towers on the sides. The distinctive Byzantine features in this building are the windows and the patere, the stone circular decorations. Now it hosts the Natural History Museum, including a dinosaur skeleton.

This is how it looks like nowadays

image hosted on flickr

Fontego dei Turchi di Daisuke Ido, su Flickr


And this is how it looked like before renovation.



These are two examples of patere

image hosted on flickr

Venezia, patera 8 di Bathor C., su Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Venezia, patera 25 di Bathor C., su Flickr
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Old August 29th, 2013, 04:41 AM   #10
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Porto Marghera and the industrial area reconversion

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Originally Posted by Galro View Post
Neat tread Jasper.

One question from me: Do you think it is realistic with a revitalization of the industrial areas at the mainland, closest to Venice, like many European cities have done? I'm thinking to build something like this or this. I.e. something with a modern twist on the Venice style built up channels.

And are there any developments currently planned or being built in Venice besides the MOSE-project?
Here we are with this question
It's a very wide and complex topic, so I'll try to make it easy. Keep in mind that it's quite hard to get information on industries due to poor communication, so my information could be incomplete.

We have 3 kinds of industrial or former industrial areas in Venice:
1) The industrial area of Porto Marghera, on the mainland facing the Lagoon.
2) Some former industries in Venice which have very beautiful buildings and have mostly been converted
3) The island of Murano, which still hosts a lot of artisan glass factories

I'll speak about part 1 here, which is one of the biggest problems of this city.

These are the industries in Porto Marghera I know about, and are active:
- Fincantieri, where they build cruise ships
- Commercial port
- Petrolchemical refining
- Waste incineration plant

At least three big industries have closed in Marghera, and they're ironworks, Phosphoric Acid and the infamous PVC production. The latter has often leaked cancerogen gas Vinyl Chloride in the air, soil and water and has caused many deaths for cancer.
A large part of Marghera is covered with brownfields and extremely polluted soil. It'll be very hard to clean.

Two smaller areas have been already cleaned and converted:
- San Giuliano Park, which is outside Marghera (on the other side of the railway). It used to be a horrible illegal waste landfill, where they've even found radioactive waste.
The area has been isolated and covered with waterproof soil, and a large urban park has been created above, with EU money. But they've had to build some large chimneys from "downstairs" to the air, in order to let out the gas produced by decomposition of waste. Google Maps here: http://goo.gl/maps/U2XUB

image hosted on flickr

Parco San Giuliano di Andrea 'Gabbon' Boscolo, su Flickr

- VEGA, a business incubator on the area of former industries, which lies next to the street connecting Venice to the rest of the world.
Streetview here: http://goo.gl/maps/EOcaE

There are a few other projects which are being carried out:

- Wetland sewage treatment facility. It's an artificial wetland where sewage is poured in order to be cleaned by plants and bacteria. It looks like a natural habitat but it's isolated from the rest of the water, and it's nearly completed. Google maps here http://goo.gl/maps/aE2SC

- Commercial port expansion. They're building the so-called "sea expressway", which requires improvement of railway connection and a place to stock all the containers.

- Conversion of petrol refinery to biodiesel refinery, where they're spending 100 milion euro to make biodiesel from animal and plants oil and fat, and from algae too.

- Contaminated mud landfill and park in Moranzani area. All the polluted mud from Lagoon excavation should go to a landfill south of Marghera, and a urban park should be made on top, like San Giuliano park.




So the answer is no, unfortunately they aren't going to make a docklands area such as Copenhagen or Amsterdam. I've personally visited that area in Amsterdam and I loved it!
The destination should remain industrial, even though they're going to convert from heavy chemistry to logistics, green chemistry and high-tech/research.

Just for fun: this is Marghera as seen from Venice centre. This sight is infamous but fascinating at the same time.

image hosted on flickr

Marghera di bebiemma, su Flickr



Here's another picture, but unfortunately it can't be embedded http://www.flickr.com/photos/bwop/53678574/

And this is "Palais LumiŔre" (Light Palace, in French), a cancelled proposed development for a part of the industrial area.
It's a 240 metres tall skyscraper by designer Pierre Cardin, which was met with a mixed reaction by the city. Some were totally opposed because of the impact when seen by the south bank of Venice, and some were enthusiastic. Some were happy for the renovation of the industrial area but unhappy with the tacky Dubai-style design. I personally believe it would have remained unoccupied, "like a Cathedral in the desert" as we say.



Next post I'll try to speak about redevelopments in Venice centre, even though there are a lot of them! And they're a lot more beautiful
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Old August 29th, 2013, 10:32 PM   #11
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Thanks for this thread, as I have often absentmidedly wondered about some things concering Venice (I visited in the late 1990s).

- do the people who live in Mestre and Marghera consider themselves Venitians or do they make a difference between their localities and Venice itself? Also, do the inhabitants of Venice (in the lagoon) consider them (Mestre and Marghera) to be "true" Venitians? In other words is there a united Venice identity or is it fractured between the island and the mainland.

- I have heard that many Venitians leave their city (in the lagoon). Is there a system in place that enables locals to continue living there? (for example, the state of Monaco gives subsidies to its local inhabitants to live in Monaco despite high rents... for Monegasque fishermen etc).
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Old August 29th, 2013, 11:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piltup Man View Post
Thanks for this thread, as I have often absentmidedly wondered about some things concering Venice (I visited in the late 1990s).

- do the people who live in Mestre and Marghera consider themselves Venitians or do they make a difference between their localities and Venice itself? Also, do the inhabitants of Venice (in the lagoon) consider them (Mestre and Marghera) to be "true" Venitians? In other words is there a united Venice identity or is it fractured between the island and the mainland.
I'd say yes, because Mestre and Marghera inhabitants are mostly Venetians who moved because of real estate prices. A house in Mestre costs about half as much as a house in Venice.

Still we tend to use the word "Mestrino" rather than "Veneziano" for someone who lives in Mestre, but it's for practical reasons rather than for identity.

The two cities were merged in 1926 by fascism, who used to conglobate many city districts all over Italy. Venice was merged with Murano, Burano and Pellestrina islands, and Chirignago, Zelarino and Favaro Veneto which are now quarters of Mestre.
Four referendums have been held, to try to separate the two cities, in 1979, 1989, 1994 and 2003, and they've always failed. I've heard they're organising the fifth referendum!!
Quote:

- I have heard that many Venitians leave their city (in the lagoon). Is there a system in place that enables locals to continue living there? (for example, the state of Monaco gives subsidies to its local inhabitants to live in Monaco despite high rents... for Monegasque fishermen etc).
We have the so-called "Legge speciale per Venezia" (special law for Venice) which gives additional money to Venice city district for both public and private mainteinance works. Before MOSE the public part was used to maintain stones, streets, bridges and for scavo dei rii: you have to dig the bottom of the waterways and remove dirt and mud, every few years.
Since MOSE construction, most of that money is given to MOSE and not to city mainteinance.

The private part of the fundings are used to help house owners who wish to renovate their homes, because the costs are approximately 30% higher due to historicity of buildings. I don't think they're doing anything to help with house rents, except for the national program for social housing. Consider that Italians have a very high house-ownership rate (I think something around 90%).

This is not enough for Venetians to remain in Venice, and it's testified by the demographical evolution of the city: this graph looks terrifying.
- Venice historical center
- Mainland
- Islands (in 1999 the city of Cavallino-Treporti was separated from the city of Venice)


Venice has gone from 170.000 to 60.000 inhabitants from 1951 to 2011. Mestre has lost many inhabitants as well, because Marghera industries have peaked around 1970 and then declined, leaving a lot of unemployment.

Many people have moved from Mestre to neighboring towns, because they wished to live in single-family detached homes instead of the commieblocks and residential towers that were built in the 60s in Mestre to accommodate industrial workers.

Nowadays they're trying to do something by attracting university students in Venice, transforming the abandoned convents to cheap student accommodation.

We have a big and complex problem with tourism, especially one-day visitors, and I'll be talking about it soon
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Old August 30th, 2013, 12:09 AM   #13
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Thanks for your comprehensive answer Jasper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper90 View Post
It used to be a horrible illegal waste landfill, where they've even found radioactive waste.
This sound quite scary. Was it done by mafia groups like in Campania? Do you know anything about that?
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Old August 30th, 2013, 01:13 AM   #14
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@Jasper90, thanks for that info. Does most revenue for this city come from tourism or industry? After all there is a container terminal there (Venice total not just Venice in lagoon).
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Old August 30th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Thanks for your comprehensive answer Jasper.

This sound quite scary. Was it done by mafia groups like in Campania? Do you know anything about that?
I've found out a document which talks about that. It says that until 1980 there were no regulations about trash disposal in Veneto, and in 1993 they've found 17 landfills in the Lagoon, containing about 5,000,000 m3 of waste.

Here's the link to the document, dated 2000-2001, even though it's very long and written in Italian http://politicheambientali.provincia...llambiente.pdf

This is the explanation of what happened in Marghera and the surrounding areas, and why it's so polluted: the muddy waste from the industrial area was recycled in order to reclaim land for industrial area expansion. When the expansion was complete, waste still had to be disposed of somewhere, and they dumped it all around the border of the lagoon.
The following is a quote from the document (sorry, but it's a Google Translation with minor adjustments, that's why phrases are so long and complex! )

Quote:
and if for the formation of the areas on which lies the first industrial zone they've used almost exclusively materials from the excavations of the port channels, the second industrial zone was
instead built on reclaimed land consisting mainly of residues deriving from the processes of the first industrial zone, thus solving, simultaneously, the dual problem of disposing of the waste and reclaiming land. The bauxite sludge, refractories and cathodic remains from primary aluminum production, pyrite ashes from the production of sulfuric acid, gypsum
waste of phosphoric acid, the foundry slag, coal ash from power plants and various other types of waste have been dumped in huge quantities, at first in expansion areas of the industrial zone. Afterwards, when the expansion areas were already filled, they were dumped along across the interface between the lagoon and the mainland, between Campalto, north,
and Dogaletto, in the town of Mira, in the South, spreading also to the
mainland and impacting areas ehich today have residential, agricultural and
different destinations. To the pollutants of the first industrial activities,
predominantly inorganic, the organic contaminants were added later, resulting from the oil and petrochemical industry and, in particular, from the cycle of chlorine: chlorinated hydrocarbons, aromatic amines, aromatic hydrocarbons, polychlorinated biphenyls and dioxins
The document also contains a description of every single landfill in the Province of Venice, and what has been made to clean the area and isolate pollution, when the document was written (2000-2001)

Here I'll share the description of the three polluted sites around San Giuliano: the last one is funny because it talks about "heavy soil pollution from heavy metals, especially lead" because of lead cartridges scattered all around by people playing the sport of clay target shooting!

Quote:
Area of San Giuliano Park
Type of area
The total area of the Park S. Giuliano has an area of ​​about 130 hectares, 16 of which have been the subject of discharge of urban and industrial waste, in the 50s - 70s. Investigations carried out in the area and information obtained over time confirmed the presence in the underground of the following industrial waste: foundry slag, sludge and cathode remains from the production of aluminum, demolition materials of industrial plants, spent catalysts, distillation ends of chlorinated hydrocarbons, residues from the production of terephthalic acid and fertilizers. The results of chemical analyzes performed from 1979 to 1996 showed the contamination of land especially for the presence of heavy metals, the ground water instead were found to be contaminated by the llarge presence of COD, nitrogen originated from ammonia and sulfides. The City of Venice presented in 1997 to the Province of Venice a project for the safety of the polluted area, as part of the master plan for the construction of the Park S. Giuliano, obtaining the favorable opinion to the intervention by the CTPA.

Remediation measures
The intervention of securing consists of: construction of a diaphragm perimeter of isolation of the area, drainage of water present within the waste, filling the land with inert material to reach the floor levels shown in the project and in waterproofing surface by laying a bentonite mat covered by a layer of clay 50 cm thick. The Work began in January 1998 and then was suspended in the same year as a result of a seizure order by the court due to an incorrect use of inert materials used for the cover.
The park opened in 2004 after every judicial problem was solved

Quote:
Campalto, saltmarsh area - Illegal waste dump
Type of area

The area of ​​approximately 220,000 m was used as illegal dump of industrial wastes such as phosphogypsum, foundry slag and others in the period between the early sixties and mid-seventies. In 1997 the area was put under environmental investigation by the Water Authority, to evaluate the possible impacts of the interventions of environmental arrangement. The results of this investigation have confirmed the subsoil contamination from industrial waste. Following the discovery of the radioactive nature of phosphogypsum, a radiometric survey was performed, which showed, in some areas, a significant fault in levels of gamma rays emission, as high as 6/8 times the average level of the surrounding farmland. The Mayor of Venice in February 1998 issued an injunction to the Water Authority for the enactment of safety measures in the area.

Remediation measures
The Waters Authority in May 1998 presented to the City Council and the Province of Venice, the safety measures for the area, including the following actions:
- Vertical and horizontal multiple barriers;
- Interception of water flows underground from the hinterland;
- Chemical neutralization of phosphogypsum and the aquifer below the landfill;
- Surface insulation of the entire area.
The CTPA in December 1998 gave a favorable opinion on the feasibility of the intervention with the project submitted by the Water Authority of Venice. Work began in April 1999 and are still in progress [in 2001].

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Campalto - Saltmarsh area of Clay Target Shooting
Type of area

The area of ​​saltmarsh located around the clay shooting range at Campalto has been affected for years by the fallout of lead shot coming from the activity of clay pigeon shooting, carried out by ASTAV "Marco Polo". As a result of investigations carried out in February 2000 by the operating department of the municipal police of Venice and the ARPAV [environmental agency of Venice] a high level of lead contamination in the soil has been detected. In March 2000 the City of Venice has issued a special order to the Sports Association, for the execution of appropriate intervention with emergency safety measures. With another note the City of Venice called for the intervention of the Waters Authority, given the failure of the recipients of the order to make the area safe.

Remediation measures


The Waters Authority in April 2000 presented the project for the implementation of the emergencial safety measures, and obtained approval by the Municipality of Venice, with the approval of the CTPA. In August 2000, the Water Authority has suggested an alternative to the project, which involved the use of metal sheet piles to delimit the area, in place of those previously planned made of reinforced concrete
Second question:

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Originally Posted by Piltup Man View Post
@Jasper90, thanks for that info. Does most revenue for this city come from tourism or industry? After all there is a container terminal there (Venice total not just Venice in lagoon).
I'd definitely say tourism. A high share of Venetians work in hotels, restaurants, shops and in the cruise ship port, whereas industry has lost thousands of workers. That's why they're trying to renovate it and convert to green industry. The container terminal is expanding though, but I don't think it employs dozens of thousands of people like tourism.

We also have 400 Gondola drivers and many taxi drivers, who benefit completely from tourism (as a Venetian would never use a Gondola or a water-taxi!)

A very small share of people work with agriculture, as we have artichokes in Sant'Erasmo island and even a small grape plantation and wine-making in the city center!

The container terminal is getting bigger though
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Old August 30th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #16
Galro
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Have Venice lost any notable historic buildings/other architectural features?
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Old August 30th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Have Venice lost any notable historic buildings/other architectural features?
Yes, but mostly at the beginning of the 19th century when Napoleon suppressed many convents and churches, leading to their abandonment and demolition.

Some other buildings were demolished or heavily modified at the end of the 19th century, to make room for development.

Something else was demolished during fascism (1922-1943), but mainly for infrastructural development.

There are also very few modern replacements in the city of Venice.

Here's a few examples:

1) An example of Napoleonic demolition is San Gimignano church by Tiziano, located in St Mark's square opposite to the Basilica. It was torn down in 1807 to make room for "Napoleon Wing", which should have been his ballet room.

This is a drawing of St Mark's square before demolition


And this is nowadays

image hosted on flickr

piazza san marco di conceptworker, su Flickr

2) The Church of Santa Lucia was demolished in 1861 to make room for the new Santa Lucia train station. These are a painting by Francesco Guardi (1712-1793) and a photograph of the church





This is the first train station which was built in 1861 by Austrians. It's the building between "Lana Polo" on the left and Scalzi church on the right.



The train station was demolished in 1936 and replaced with the modernist building by Angiolo Mazzoni (who designed hundreds of train stations all over Italy!!). Works were completed in 1952.

image hosted on flickr

Santa Lucia di y entonces, su Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Santa Lucia Train Station di eric ..., su Flickr

Another example in the next post
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Old August 30th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #18
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This was San Paterniano belltower, allegedly built in the year 999, and it was the only 5-sided belltower in Venice.



All you can see in the picture was demolished in 1871: the building on the left was replaced with the neo-gothic expansion of the City Hall,(it's on the left in the last picture). The belltower was replaced with the eclectic Cassa di Risparmio di Venezia (a bank).



The eclectic building, being relatively modern and of far less historical interest than the bell tower, was deemed "sacrificeable" and replaced in 1970 with this modern and controversial facade by Pierluigi Nervi and Angelo Scattolin.
The buildings on the left are the neo-gothic and neo-renaissance expansions of the City Hall.

image hosted on flickr

P7241864 di taver, su Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Nervi di wamcclung, su Flickr

I can't think of other historical buildings being lost. There are a few other modern interventions and demolitions in Venice, but they were mostly carried out on small warehouses of no historical value, abandoned areas, reclaimed land or former industries (but even industries were mostly preserved and re-converted).
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Old September 1st, 2013, 09:39 PM   #19
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Hey everybody, don't be shy, please ask me any question!

By the way, thank you Galro, Piltup Man and Index_LT for your questions! They've helped me to make some research and discover new things about my city I didn't know
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 07:32 AM   #20
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Hi, Cool thread.

First question: Do you live in the Historical Center? If yes, how is to live there? (because Venice is a rather unconventional city)

Second Question: We all now that Venice has developed a strong tourism industry that has become a very important part of the economy. With that, generally speaking, what do they do the people that live in the historical center for living? Most of them work in things related to tourism? Or is it that they commute to terra firma to work in other things not tourism related? Or do they work in the historical center, but not in things related to tourism, what other economic activities there are in the historic center other than tourism? (all this generally speaking, or approximate percentages, like about X% of the people commute outside the city Centre)

First and second questions are somehow related, it is about the daily live of the people living in the historical centre.

Last edited by CCs77; September 2nd, 2013 at 07:46 AM.
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