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Old September 17th, 2013, 07:44 AM   #41
Jasper90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J. View Post
But how does the wave affect old buildings' first level? Like St. Mark's Basilica?
You need to protect the ground floor with a metal barrier, and pump out the remaining flux of water, like in this picture:

image hosted on flickr

Acqua Alta 03/12/2010 di dmtdux, su Flickr

Or otherwise you can just move away everything from the floor, put it on higher shelfs and let the water in (but it's not really a good idea)

image hosted on flickr

Acqua Alta 03/12/2010 di dmtdux, su Flickr

This is St Mark's Basilica floor, during high tide. The water gets a lot higher than this! You can't do much about it. The reflection on the water shows the Clock Tower in St Mark's Square.

image hosted on flickr

Prima acqua alta in Basilica di VeniceWiki, su Flickr

When you restore a ground floor, you usually build what we call "bathtub": the first meter of the wall is waterproof, and you have a small hollow space under the ground floor which collects the flux of water trespassing the metal barrier. The water ending in this underground basin is continuously pumped out on the other side of the barrier.
This way you completely prevent the water from wetting the pavement, and it's the best solution.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 07:45 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by NUMERATZI View Post
Has the water level in veniece ever gone dramatically low that you could see the fundations of the buildings or other stuff??
During low tides you mainly see algae. You can rarely see the muddy bottom of the canal, when it hasn't undergone excavation for a while.

These are pictures of low natural tides:

image hosted on flickr

bassa marea_17 febbraio 1008 di laralarus, su Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Low Tide, Narrow Canal di Alida's Photos, su Flickr

You can see more during canals' excavation, which must be done periodically to remove mud and restore the foundations of buildings.

I've found a very interesting explanation, but unfortunately it's in Italian. I'll share a few pictures, showing the foundations and the restoration works. Many of these restoration works are experimental, because the problem of foundations' conservation is unique in the world. One of the techniques is mortar injection inside the foundation, and another one is called "stitch and un-stitch": you remove every single damaged brick and replace with a new one, keeping the good ones.

Here's the link, for Italian readers http://www.architettiveneziani.it/scavo/turlon2.html

This is the closure of a canal, to allow its digging
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chiusa per scavo rio in strada nova di blogup, su Flickr

Bad dilapidation of the wall, especially in the area where the water movement is enhanced by boats propellers. The wooden beams were added to help the workers.



After restoration



Dilapidation of a foundation before intervention



After the intervention. The "sticks" at the bottom of the picture indicate the place of mortar injections inside the foundation, to make it stronger.



Dilapidated private building's foundations before intervention



After the intervention:



Thanks to Architetti Veneziani (Venetian Architects) association for their work.

http://www.architettiveneziani.it/
http://www.architettiveneziani.it/scavo/turlon.html
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Old September 17th, 2013, 07:52 AM   #43
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That is officially the most beautiful city ever.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 08:59 AM   #44
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I've almost run out of questions! This is the last one, so everybody don't be shy and keep asking!!

If you're afraid of saying something wrong, just don't be otherwise you can ask me via private message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avemano View Post
- What is your top 10 venetian palaces ? I saw a few on wikipedia but you may know it better
To be precise, there are only one Palace and one Square in Venice The Palace is Palazzo Ducale, and it's located in St Mark's Square.

All the other major buildings are called Ca' (shortening of Casa, House) and the other squares are called Campo (plural: Campi, it means "field").

I don't know if I got the question right, but I'd like to show some hidden and peculiar buildings of the city, even if they might not always be the most beautiful. I'll split this answer in 10 parts, so it lasts longer

1) I love the dialogue between the severe Rationalist fašade of luxury Hotel Bauer and the flowery ornate Baroque San MoisŔ Church.

The church got its current fašade in 1668, although the church itself probably dates back to 796. The belltower was built in 13th or 14th century.

Bauer's Modernist street fašade was completed in 1949. The last picture shows Bauer's Neo-Gothic fašade on the Grand Canal, built in 19th century.



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bauer hotel facade IMG_3408 di zio Paolino, su Flickr

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Chiesa di San MoisŔ, Venice di Andy Hay, su Flickr

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Bauer Hotel, Venice di S.M.H.M., su Flickr
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:05 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper90 View Post
Hi!

I hadn't noticed that Papadopoli is a Greek name. As I listen to the word now, it definitely sounds like an Italianization of the surname Papadopoulos

The Venetian Orthodox Greek community was founded in 1498 even though Greek merchants were already present in Venice since the 12th century. There were about 4000 Greeks in the 16th century, when they received the permission to build St George of the Greeks Church, with its very leaning bell tower.
Thanks for lengthy reply. You know there were also many Byzantine Greeks who were instrumental in the Renaissance, many settling in Venice. One of the most famous being Bessarion of Pontus who donated many priceless ancient texts to the Biblioteca Marciana, considered the gems of the collection, and which he also helped establish...the library that is.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 02:42 PM   #46
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Hey Jasper I came across these pics online of the Greek quarter in Venice.

Panorama of bridge, institute, church and belltower.

The Hellenic Institute was originally the Flanginian School, named after its benefactor. I notice it has been restored recently as it didn't look that well kept when I saw it last. It's a handsome building now.



I would recommend visiting the church as it has an amazing icon screen and of course I realise other things are even more grand and amazing in Venice, but it's still interesting because it has Byzantine-style interior decoration in a typically Venetian renaissance style building...something a bit different. Going beyond the beaten track to the backstreets of Venice has its rewards. It's an ever enchanting place to explore and get lost in.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #47
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I've recently been to the nearby Museum of Byzantine Icons (now part of the Hellenic Institute in Venice) which displays some of the most amazing Cretan and even Constantinopolitan icons I've ever seen, works whose quality and rarity you'll hardly get to see in Greece itself.

As a note, such artworks weren't looted somewhere. They were donated to the rich Greek community of Venice by private owners along the centuries.

The Church was closed - unfortunately.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 04:59 PM   #48
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I heard of the Museum but it wasn't open when I was there. You say the museum is great and I can assure you church is worth a visit so interesting place for more than one reason.

As for the icons there, they were saved not looted and it's fitting that they're in this great city of culture and art for everyone to admire.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #49
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Thanks to Vittorio and Skymantle for your contributions and for the better picture

I'll definitely visit the Greek zone as soon as I can! I'm very curious, as I've seen it a lot of times... From outside!!

As for Ancient Greece, I'd like to talk about the 4 lion statues which stand outside the Arsenal street entrance.

The two lions standing close to the entrance were brought there in 1687 by Commander Francesco Morosini, also called "The Peloponnesiac" (he destroyed the roof of the Parthenon), to celebrate the victory over Athens. The other two lions were put in their place in 1716, after the conquest of Corf¨ (Kerkyra).

The first lion on the right is the most ancient one, comes from Lepsina (Elefsina) and dates back to 7th century B.C. (although it was altered at Baroque times, especially the head).



The second lion on the right dates back to 6th century and comes from Delos (but the head was added at the end of 17th century). The inscription at the base says "In the year of the liberation of Corf¨ (from Turks).



The third and smallest lion is the least interesting one, and comes from Attica as seen on the iscription at the bottom (ex Atticis). I couldn't find a date



But the most amazing lion is the one at the left of the entrance: it comes from Piraeus (Athens' harbour) and was made in 4th century B.C..
Very surprisingly, it features some runic inscriptions on its side: they were probably sculpted around the year 1040 by Scandinavian mercenaries, who had been called by Bisantium in order to help calm down a riot in Athens.

In 1995 a group of 300 Athenians, after sculpting an exact replica of the lion and gathering 100,000 Ç, asked Venice to give back the original lion and keep the copy. The exchange didn't happen, and the replica now stands in Piraeus in place of the original.





These are the runic inscriptions



And this is the replica in Piraeus



I'd like to thank Giovanni Dall'Orto for the pictures and historical details I've used in this post. He's a photographer, historician and probably the greatest LGBT rights activist in Italy here's his page on WikiCommons

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Us...llorto/Venezia
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Old September 20th, 2013, 07:43 PM   #50
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Man, seeing Runes throughout Europe is so cool. Theres some runes scribbled in the Hagia Sophia as well.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 06:44 AM   #51
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Unrealized projects - part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
Another question from me: Have there ever been any large development schemes or any other projects being proposed for Venice that never happened?
I've found some more projects for the city of Venice which weren't realized!! I think some of them are amazing, and some of them are interesting but I'm happy they weren't realized.

Let's begin:

1) Construction of a peripheral highway around Venice, running close to the northern coast and linking the new island of Tronchetto (which was actually built in 1960) to the sparsely inhabited islands of Vignole and Sant'Erasmo, ending on the mainland in Punta Sabbioni.

The construction was voted in 1958 together with a general plan for Venice Lagoon, but the street was "forgotten" and eventually cancelled 10-15 years later.

The goal for the proposed street was to link Venice to the mainland coast (which was becoming a popular beach resort) and to promote the growth of the islands of Vignole and Sant'Erasmo. They nowadays have 64 and 723 inhabitants, who mostly work on organic agriculture on the islands.

This is the project by Eugenio Miozzi, the chief engineer of the city at the time.



2) General rectification of narrow and crowded streets (and I'll also speak about Venetian architecture and renovations in the 50s).

In the 50s it wasn't considered so bad to completely demolish some historical buildings, in order to make room for larger and more modern streets.

This was done massively in Milan, until the 60s, where a few boulevards have replaced large portions of the medieval city, with some good and some bad results. The destruction of some monumental churches and a few nice sceneries has left space for monumental buildings and wide boulevards and squares which now characterize the city (Via Albricci, via Larga, Piazza San Babila are some examples).

But since this thread is about Venice, I can say that street rectification with demolition didn't happen after the war.
The 50s brought a few modern buildings inside the city, but they're generally nice examples of architecture, like the Train Station or Hotel Bauer, which were built in lieu of buildings of little historical interest.

However the 50s were also the years when building regulations were loose and quite disrespected. The result isn't clearly visible, but it regards some bad building elevations especially in the zone surrounding St Mark's square.
Many renovations were carried out with little respect for the history of the building, widely changing its interior rooms disposition and using inappropriate materials (concrete). These unsuitable building materials are being removed nowadays, in modern restorations.
Laws were often unattended: many small warehouses got the permission to be replaced by, let's say, a 3-storeys-building. The developers usually built a 4th floor, probably calculating that the fine would have been smaller than the higher income from the larger building.

This is Calle del Lovo (street of the wolf), which risked being widened by transforming the ground floors into porches. It's the only street in Venice featuring a pink granite floor. I couldn't find any day pictures, due to it being full of people

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Old September 21st, 2013, 07:24 AM   #52
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Unrealized projects - part 3

These are 3 projects for new buildings in the city, which weren't eventually carried out. I've found some drawings, but I've also used the great work by Dionisio Gonzales, who made some renderings for the following cancelled projects, and exposed them at Venice Biennale.

1) Masieri Memorial, by Frank Lloyd Wright.
After the sudden death of architect Angelo Masieri in 1952, his relatives decided to build a Foundation for Architecture students. The project, by Frank Lloyd Wright, was rejected in 1954 because it was against the regulations because of the exterior change on the fašade.

Masieri Memorial was eventually built on another project, by Carlo Scarpa, who kept the fašade but completely revolutioned the interior, using concrete and steel.



Original larger image: http://www.artribune.com/2011/12/ven...l-wright-1953/

The current Masieri Memorial is the brown building on the left of the white Palazzo Balbi. (Alma Pater, Wikicommons)



http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._de_canal1.JPG
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Old September 21st, 2013, 07:42 AM   #53
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Great updates Jasper
What about the two great columns standing at the entrance of Piazza San Marco? I think i read once that they commemorate the one-time colonies of Crete and Cyprus, considered the jewels in the crown of Venice's foriegn posessions. Is this true and can you please tell us more about these columns? Thanks.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 08:04 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper90 View Post
1) Construction of a peripheral highway around Venice, running close to the northern coast and linking the new island of Tronchetto (which was actually built in 1960) to the sparsely inhabited islands of Vignole and Sant'Erasmo, ending on the mainland in Punta Sabbioni.
This is CRAZY
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Old September 21st, 2013, 08:06 AM   #55
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I hope Venice can be saved from from the rising seas in the future.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 08:08 AM   #56
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Unrealized projects - part 4

2) New Hospital, Le Corbusier, 1964

This project for a new hospital was to be built where lies the former slaughterhouse. A large part of the hospital would have been standing on pilotis in the water.

The project was approved by the city council but the hospital capacity was later reduced from 1200 to 800. This caused some delays, followed by the death of Le Corbusier in 1965. Money for construction was eventually diverted to renovation of the already existing hospital, and in 1978 the City decided to build the new hospital in Mestre. So Le Corbusier's project was eventually cancelled.

The former slaughterhouse was recently transformed in a University building, major in Economics and Business. On the other side of the canal, where a smaller part of the hospital was due to be built, some modern beautiful houses were built.

I'm personally happy that the hospital was never built, because I find it aesthetically unpleasant like many Le Corbusier projects, although I think he was a great architect and gave a great contribution to modern architecture.




Dionisio Gonzales's rendering: original and larger picture http://www.artribune.com/wp-content/...m-ed.-of-7.jpg



This picture shows the Business and Economics department fašade on the canal, after renovation

image hosted on flickr
Macello di S. Giobbe di GwenaŰl Piaser, su Flickr

This is the fašade towards the lagoon, before renovation, with the modern houses on the background

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Macello II - Slaughterhouse II di Daisuke Ido, su Flickr

The caption is wrong: these are the modern houses, whereas the slaughterhouse is only visible in the right corner. The picture was probably taken by a train arriving in Venice: this is the view you get from the bridge.

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Cannaregio, Venezia di klausbergheimer, su Flickr
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Old September 21st, 2013, 08:27 AM   #57
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Unrealized projects - part 5

3) Congress Hall - Louis Kahn, 1968

This congress hall was to be built next to the Biennale, but then the project was relocated inside the Arsenal.

It's a reinforced concrete structure designed to host 2500-3000 people, standing above the water like a bridge, with a curved bottom.

The three circular structures on top resemble the domes of St Mark's Basilica.


I personally think this is the most beautiful unrealized project for Venice



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Old September 21st, 2013, 09:12 AM   #58
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Unrealized projects - part 6

4) Rialto Bridge by Andrea Palladio

This is the world famous Rialto bridge, built in 1591 by Antonio Da Ponte after he won a contest for its design.

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rialto di SussexSnapper, su Flickr

But what if he hadn't won the contest? Another project was presented by the great architect Andrea Palladio. This is the design



This is Palladio's project in a painting by Francesco Guardi

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FundašŃo Calouste Gulbenkian - 19 | The Rialto Bridge after the design by Palladio, by Francesco Guardi di Paulo Dykes, su Flickr

My personal opinion: Palladio was a lot better at designing churches
The project was rejected also because it featured 3 arcades, whereas Da Ponte's project was lighter and thinner, more similar to the previous wooden bridge.

These are a few buildings from Palladio. What do they resemble? The answer is at the end of this post


This is the church of San Giorgio Maggiore, on the omonymous island just in front of St Mark's square (and its columns, which I'll talk about soon), designed by Palladio in 1565 and built in 1607-1611 (after his death) with a slightly different fašade

image hosted on flickr

Basilica di San Giorgio Maggiore - Venezia di Pivari.com, su Flickr

Vicenza, Palladian Basilica: it's the center of the neighbor city of Vicenza (65 km from Venice) where Palladio lived a large part of his life and built most of his works. Designed in 1546-1549.

image hosted on flickr

Basilica Palladiana di netNicholls, su Flickr

This is the beautiful Villa Rotonda by Palladio, in the outskirts of Vicenza. It's the most famous of the 5,000 beautiful Villas where Venetian nobles used to go on holiday. Most of these Villas are still existing, and some of them were declared UNESCO Heritage Sites (together with the city centre of Vicenza).
The building is also called "Villa Almerico Capra": Almerico commissioned the project to Palladio in 1565, whereas Capra brothers completed the construction in 1591 after Palladio's death.

image hosted on flickr

Vicenza, La Rotonda 145 di Sergio &amp; Gabriella, su Flickr


Sorry, I just can't focus on speaking about a single topic without talking about thousands of other stuff

The answer to the question about resemblance is: on 6 December 2010 Palladio was declared "father of the American Architecture" by the US Congress. His Neoclassical architecture inspired a lot of American buildings, including the White House.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 10:46 AM   #59
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I hope not to offend or be ignorant. The pics of the water at high tide flowing into buildings. Is that because Venice is sinking or because water is rising from Global Warming ? In Australia we live a constant life afraid of Global Warming and doom...This city has been here for a very long time so should know better than any of us here...best wishes x
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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper90 View Post
2)
New Hospital, Le Corbusier, 1964


I'm personally happy that the hospital was never built, because I find it aesthetically unpleasant like many Le Corbusier projects, although I think he was a great architect and gave a great contribution to modern architecture.
O, thank God that didn't happen!
I might agree that Le Corbusier was a good architect meaning a person who designs single buildings. But he was a nightmare of a city planner. His nihilistic or merely barbaric attitude to the cultural heritage, his arrogance and inability to realize how city works and how people in the city act along with his megalomaniac ambitions and great influence his ideas had (and still have) on his colleagues all over the world made him arguably the most harmful and destructive figure in the history of urban development.
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