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Old September 10th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #1
Arcytekton
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Skyscrapers around Palace of Culture in Warsaw City Core Poland

Well,I'm curious abaut Your opinion about this how could look Warsaw City Core-Skyline like? I perform You my design.I made it long time ago/1992/But it doesn't matter to discuss the topic.The clue is that that area in Poland, I mean,around Palace of Culture in the CENTER midle of the Capital City is for many years not being built .The question is WHY?

I sent my PROJECT in The International Competition of Ideas for Development Scheme for that place in 1992

Some pictures first:










and this is how it looks nowadays

Empty surrounding of Palace of Culture




...which is waste of place in the center.

More actual view:



still domination of russian-communism-huge-building.Why so long after political transformations in Poland this BUILDING is dominating&devastating that important area for capital city of Poland?
I mean not to destroy that historical building, we must say ,but why there is no permission to build close to it for so long?
Such investitions could make the Warsaw city skyline more european not so russian. To create a group skyscrapers instead of ONE PALACE dominating all warsaw landscape.

Some other views now from Warsaw:




Of course they made there some skyscraper architecture near that area but its separated from City Core.Not integrated at all.





It's like one center here /with Libeskind building/ and other there /PKiN BIG palace building with green surrounding/.
You can see this here


image hosted on flickr





Let's talk about this...my Dear Friends
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Old September 10th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #2
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Quote:
still domination of russian-communism-huge-building.Why so long after political transformations in Poland this BUILDING is dominating&devastating that important area for capital city of Poland?
I mean not to destroy that historical building, we must say ,but why there is no permission to build close to it for so long?
Such investitions could make the Warsaw city skyline more european not so russian. To create a group skyscrapers instead of ONE PALACE dominating all warsaw landscape.
No matter what you build there Palace will be probably still more interesting and certainly more European than this asian looking postmodernism, after 20 years it looks completely outdated.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcytekton View Post
still domination of russian-communism-huge-building.Why so long after political transformations in Poland this BUILDING is dominating&devastating that important area for capital city of Poland?
I mean not to destroy that historical building, we must say ,but why there is no permission to build close to it for so long?
Such investitions could make the Warsaw city skyline more european not so russian.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:26 PM   #4
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Agreed ^

The Palace of Culture (despite the political connotation) has provided valuable cultural, commercial, institutional and recreational (tourist) functions for Warsaw. The square around it could benefit from modernization, infill and re-design to accommodate existing and projected needs but the design of the PKiN itself is worthwhile and it would be a shame to obscure it purposefully.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #5
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Nice job, Arcytekton!

I felt free to post other concepts .











Towers presented on the last two pics are examples following the height limit in that place, reaching almost 300m .
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Old September 11th, 2013, 09:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
....certainly more European than this asian looking postmodernism, after 20 years it looks completely outdated.
Realy? Show me such big building,socrealistic architecture and simillar scale in Europa.Where is this Moscow-european stile on the West?
@Project
Postmodernism or artdeco stile which is proposed in my project are only detals.More important are relations to the huge Palace.Making group dominant and so on.Detals would be in that design individual aspect of investor.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 09:46 AM   #7
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@JanVL
Quote:
I felt free to post other concepts .......
Towers presented on the last two pics are examples following the height limit in that place, reaching almost 300m ....
I know that concept.
I agree with conection West&East CENTER of Warsaw in this project.

One thing is a bit overprojected.It is this atmosphere of GLASS.That mirror elevations of skyscrapers reflecting and multiplicating the Palace will not cover his image.They'll accent more that building.That's a little to much for me,but all concept of close contact with Big Palace and changed urban surrounding are fine.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
The Palace of Culture (despite the political connotation) has provided valuable cultural, commercial, institutional and recreational (tourist) functions for Warsaw. The square around it could benefit from modernization, infill and re-design to accommodate existing and projected needs but the design of the PKiN itself is worthwhile and it would be a shame to obscure it purposefully
Yes and no.
Square around all trees,green in my project are accepted and adopted to use. Part on the south and east of the square is less greeny and that part must be transformed. Nowadays that area got no completly function.One big parking and empty postcommunistic parade square where no more soldiers marching shows.

It's worth to remember what price Warsaw paid for that cultural, commercial, institutional and recreational (tourist) functions.All rests of houses after II WWar were demolished and private property not included.Look at that picture where all private houses could by restored rebuilt.They never did it.The only thing was to build on it political building The palace of Culture.
That's the bigger shame not this covering it nowedays by skyscrapers.
Polish people remember that violence on urbanism and architecture of old Warsaw.

Any way ,we know that we must accept realism but the political connotation isn't nothing.It is something.That's why there are concepts to cover communistic architecture in Poland ,cause its important for many people not to see that domination of communism in free City of Warsaw.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #9
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I can put here my old design of Defilad Sq. if you want.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #10
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@WMS

Yes please. I am looking for projects to discuss. As I said there was in 1992 The international Competition of Ideas for Development Scheme for Warsaw City Core.After that competiton I never heard about any discusion clubs or something in this subject. May be we could find some people who took part at that project event and can publicate some ideas.

This was a book about it.




and exhibition:
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Old September 12th, 2013, 01:25 AM   #11
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Ok, so this is my conception from 1st semester of my masters (Silesian University of Technology). Year 2009, it is not based on city plans (MPZP and others), rather an answer, my vision. Not spectacular, more conservative, calm solution.

[IMG]http://i41.************/68ze34.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i43.************/1znbul5.jpg[/IMG]

bigger:
http://i41.************/2lchs3.jpg
http://i43.************/28k7pm0.jpg
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Old September 12th, 2013, 03:43 PM   #12
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Thank You for this voice.
My first impressions about it.
(+++++)
Very sensitive feeling of surrounding. Green,trees,adopted & continuation of surrounding streets & views .Very logic scheme of proposed streets.Views walking along from main streets at PKiN (Palace) very limited (by 30m buildings along streets)which is good. Very nice connection of West Center with quarter of Palace & it's big scale. Wonderful solution with these two high skyscrapers on the west of the quarter integrating two areas there in one dominant-group .
(---)
Too much open square on the east side of PKiN(Palace)which is bigger accent for this tremendous Palace in the middle of the city. Opening this area is giving that building more air to show off.Palace is visible in the landscape of the city enough ,so this combination seems to be rather bad.The same with continuated view-axell from south street (Pankiewicza street) and open view at PKiN.Complete no integration the PKiN&West(center)---> with East Wall(center).
------------
VERY REALISTIC SOLUTION could be the first step in the direction of creation that no active nowadays Xzone
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Old September 13th, 2013, 01:58 AM   #13
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Thank you for Your positive opinion. You read that conception very well, so i'm gonna answer for the negative notes


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcytekton View Post
(---)
Too much open square on the east side of PKiN(Palace)which is bigger accent for this tremendous Palace in the middle of the city. Opening this area is giving that building more air to show off.Palace is visible in the landscape of the city enough ,so this combination seems to be rather bad.The same with continuated view-axell from south street (Pankiewicza street) and open view at PKiN.
Good observation. Everything is done by me on purpose.
The Palace is tremendous indeed and its visible in the landscape. But covering over a half of the square with new buildings won't make the Palace visible from the street level.
My intent was to save and increase the meaning of most characteristic axes - Złota St. (from west and east), Pankiewicza St from the south (the street is aimed directly on the Palace's high part) and Swietokrzyski Park on the norht, which is untouched in my project. Why? Because I respect the Palace (despite the history), it is becoming a landmark of Warsaw and the icon in Warsaws skyline. It is hardly visible from the western districts because of a highrise development in Wola and downtown. We shouldn't cover PKiN from the east side.
Look at the pictures:
Złota



Pankiewicza


It should be continued in a new development.
And one more thing about Pankiewicza St. extension an its width - Warsaw Downtow rail station underground it should require more space on a '0' level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcytekton View Post
Too much open square on the east side of PKiN
Its because i wanted to make a city square - the center of a center, with more human scale as it is nowadays (Defilad Square is huge - 3rd in the world i suppose, and its inhuman) and smaller public spaces like the one near Chmielna St.
Warsaw uses Constitution Square for New Years Eve, a solution which is difficult for local people, there's plenty of appartments around. And of course it affects to transport system (closed streets etc.). Making the one main venue place in the strict center wouldn't be onerous for surroundings and it would be more accessible for visitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcytekton View Post
Complete no integration the PKiN&West(center)---> with East Wall(center).
There is an integration leaving the East Wall (which is in my opinion very good examples of PRL's architecture), the reference to its height (lower buildings) and making the Złota St axis more important. Making tall buildings on the east side of the Palace would ruin East Wall's conception. I told about respect to PKiN, it leads also to respecting other existing surroundings which are worth leaving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcytekton View Post
------------
VERY REALISTIC SOLUTION could be the first step in the direction of creation that no active nowadays Xzone
Lots of steps were made, nothing is done But thank you.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:22 AM   #14
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Bose Architects has made once such a plan:











http://www.bosearchitects.com/project/plac-defilad
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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:20 PM   #15
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@WMS
We have a different opinion about respect to PKiN,but OK it's Your point of view. I appreciate it. Any way I stay with my concept of thinking that East Wall should get perpendicular urbanistic and formal junctions to that long east line.I mean "all CENTER should together live one live" .Now West C+PKiN and East PRL center don't cooperate.PKiN splits all these relations. Rather the situation and proportions of the East Wall buildings are OK. I don't treat its modern-architecture so much valuable for Warsaw landscape. It's nothing special comparing to european or world architecture.I would easly add there some higher obiect to make all group dominant skyscrapers center work.I wouldn't ofcourse ruin them that's self understood.Only closer adoption. There is a lack of new objects along Marszalkowska street special higher ones(about 70m high).
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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanVL
Bose Architects has made once such a plan:....................""
Not bad.That's what I 'd like see in this area in the future.Such kinds of interiors and functions. Nice hand sketches any way.
I think from all these 3 our concepts it would become nice idea
But as WMS said:

Lots of steps were made, nothing is done

Pity
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Old September 14th, 2013, 01:51 AM   #17
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This week a new competition and tender starts for the new Museum of Modern Art on the Defilad square.

Last project:



Other projects from the previous competition:







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Old September 14th, 2013, 06:20 AM   #18
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hey everyone.....what nice thread....
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Old September 14th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #19
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Some other ideas I found




The grey block on the right is were the Museum of Modern Art will be build.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 02:15 PM   #20
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The area close to Defilad Square...

To understand the need for skyscrapers for a nice continuity, I'd like to show you the surrounding skyscrapers and areas. Maybe slightly off-topic, but it's good to show or to help imagine what the Defilad Square needs. Arcytekton showed us already some pictures at the beginning . I'd like to add still a few.

10 of the highest towers around the Defilad Square (from highest to lowest)

1.Zlota 44 (192m)
image hosted on flickr


2.Rondo 1 (192m total, 159m to roof)


3.Hotel Mariott (170m total, 140m to roof)


4.Warsaw Financial Center (165m total, 144m to roof)


5.Intercontinental (164m total, 154m to roof)


6.Cosmopolitan Twarda (160m)


7.Oxford Tower (150m total, 140m to roof)


8.Spektrum (128m)


9.Novotel (111m total, 106m to roof)


10.Zlote Tarasy (105m)


Towers that are being build at the moment

1.Q22 (155-159m)

image hosted on flickr


Towers that are confirmed and construction will start (probably) in the next 2 years

1.UBS Tower (188m)


2.PHN Tower (140m)


Towers that were proposed (mixed: Some are very possible, other ones just beginning of the project)



1.Lilium Tower (260m)


2.Kaskada (170m)


3.Tower of the Jewish Community (170m)


4.Roma Tower (Tower of the Catholic Church) (170m)


5.Tower in the place of Emilia (160m)


6.Atrium South (155m)
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