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Old September 14th, 2013, 08:05 PM   #21
ThatOneGuy
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The Palace of Culture is like the Empire State Building of Europe, outside Moscow. It should be a bit distanced from the rest. Maybe some nice lowrises should surround it.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 10:22 PM   #22
Arcytekton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanVL View Post
To understand the need for skyscrapers for a nice continuity, I'd like to show you the surrounding skyscrapers and areas. Maybe slightly off-topic, but it's good to show or to help imagine what the Defilad Square needs. Arcytekton showed us already some pictures at the beginning . I'd like to add still a few.

10 of the highest towers around the Defilad Square (from highest to lowest)

1.Zlota 44 (192m)


2.Rondo 1 (192m total, 159m to roof)


3.Hotel Mariott (170m total, 140m to roof)


4.Warsaw Financial Center (165m total, 144m to roof)


5.Intercontinental (164m total, 154m to roof)


6.Cosmopolitan Twarda (160m)


7.Oxford Tower (150m total, 140m to roof)


8.Spektrum (128m)


9.Novotel (111m total, 106m to roof)


10.Zlote Tarasy (105m)


Towers that are being build at the moment

1.Q22 (155-159m)


Towers that are confirmed and construction will start (probably) in the next 2 years

1.UBS Tower (188m)


2.PHN Tower (140m)


Towers that were proposed (mixed: Some are very possible, other ones just beginning of the project)



1.Lilium Tower (260m)


2.Kaskada (170m)


3.Tower of the Jewish Community (170m)


4.Roma Tower (Tower of the Catholic Church) (170m)


5.Tower in the place of Emilia (160m)


6.Atrium South (155m)
THANX A LOT FOR ALL THAT SUMMARY!

I'll comment it later on yet.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 10:49 PM   #23
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@ThatOneGuy
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The Palace of Culture is like the Empire State Building of Europe, outside Moscow. It should be a bit distanced from the rest. May be some nice lowrises should surround it.
You exaggerate. It is already distanced from the rest 'cause of its characteristic form. Covering it by surrounding with other skyscrapers is natural and needed .The political connotation of that building must be reduced by that mechanism of projecting and direction of thinking.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 03:13 AM   #24
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I don't relate skyscrapers with politics in any way. This is a special landmark that deserves the spotlight.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #25
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Every building has its meaning. In that case it is politics .I understand You .You must have been Pole otherwise You don't get the connotation
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Old September 15th, 2013, 09:24 PM   #26
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I see beauty for what it is, not for what it is used for.

I still find beauty in the Palace of the Parliment in my country, Romania, even though it was built in honor of a political party that I do not agree with.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 09:23 AM   #27
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Warsaw's Palace of Culture is one of the best skyscrapers in Europe. That communists built it shouldn't detract from the fact that it's elegant and beautiful. They don't build them like that any more and Warsaw will always have that leg up versus other skylines around the world.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 11:06 AM   #28
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@Isaidso
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They don't build them like that any more and Warsaw will always have that leg up versus other skylines around the world.
Remarkable scale and architecture is something different then proudness. We have Stalin's building standing on ruins and bones of our heroes( I sticked uper to one of my posts the picture of "Paris of North"- houses and sections of Warsaw before 1939 which were demolished by bulldozers after II War by communists to build this remarkable "outstanding" sign of Russia in Europe.That's the face of communism in Europe.Who doesn't see it meams doesn't want to see it.We Poles never accept it. It's the same with fascist - monumental regime architecture in Germany which reminds the cruel system there. Who looks at architecture without history treats it instrumental and must say ,sorry abaut that ,simply soulless. Architecture has got soul. Otherwise ere money thrown away .That's what PKiN Palace is now.
Empire State Building in NY or Eiffel tower in Paris mean something for people and countries.Palace of 'Culture" was built against Nation with out asking them for opinion without context urbanism or national traditional architecture.Forget it.

That was like "Green martians people landing in Warsaw" "parachute" architecture made in Moscow imported from there:




But let's go back to how make the place of Warsaw City Center Core fulfilled with more soulfull architecture meaning something for that region for nation, people living there
My direction of thinking in my design was to decrease domination The “famous” Palace .It’s scale will take care it self with possible new surrounding skyscrapers.Yes?Is so tremendous thats obvious
That way - by splitting main views(axels) at Palace to cover them with new more polish ,warsaw architecture. On sketch plan it looks like that:
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Old September 16th, 2013, 01:03 PM   #29
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But it's part of your history now. It's a mistake to attempt to erase it from memory by tearing it down or hiding it from view.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 11:48 PM   #30
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This is unerasable. Wise project of covering it is natural consequence of changing history.
Thats all.
There was a time of exposition and now come time of hiding. As I said its impossible to hide it.We can only surround it with skyscrapers. Thats all.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #31
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Why hide? Look at how amazing it looks in that under construction picture. White as snow. if anything, it should be renovated itself, and shown off to the world.

The communist regime must be remembered and evaluated, not erased. Its positives, like this building, must be remembered as well as its negatives, otherwise it is destroying a big part of history that no others in the future will ever be able to appreciate and understand, and that is totally selfish. The world is under capitalist regimes nowadays, but that is no reason to throw away the past.

What if the Egypt pyramids were hidden, despite being symbols of slavery and oppression?

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Old September 17th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Why hide? Look at how amazing it looks in that under construction picture. White as snow. if anything, it should be renovated itself, and shown off to the world.
Next year the cleaning will start . So by 2015 it should be white again.

I personally like this project, which is also how it will be looking like. All the height restrictions are according to plans in this visualization.



The Defilad Square will get the towers which, looking at economic reasons, are the best there. And from the other side a view on the tower, which in my opinion is special, will be preserved.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 03:50 AM   #33
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A nice view of Warsaw's skylines taken by me this past summer.



I'm happy to hear about the cleaning plans! I think it will like nicer in white, but then again the dirty look it has gives it a sense of oldness and history. That's something Warsaw unfortunately lacks. But, that is what Kraków is for, right?
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Old September 17th, 2013, 05:03 AM   #34
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We blame the nazis for blowing up the Paris of the north. Not Warsaw itself
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Old September 17th, 2013, 05:57 AM   #35
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I guess as long as the tower is not completely surrounded and blocked off, the other skyscrapers will create a nice frame for it.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 12:58 PM   #36
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@ThatOneGuy
Quote:
The communist regime must be remembered and evaluated, not erased.
It's in its baze false and evil. Communism killed milions,miliopns.... of people many morew times then fascism did. What are You talking about.
Quote:
The world is under capitalist regimes nowadays, but that is no reason to throw away the past
No way to throw away the past.Communistic movments are to strong in the world.Don't worry. That will last years & years to understand it's Bullshit
Quote:
What if the Egypt pyramids were hidden, despite being symbols of slavery and oppression?
Where in the desert?What for?.Let them stay.
It's completly different when the symbol of slavery and oppression You must see every day.
-----
I stress one thing We do not disscus about destroing or hiding "the famous Palace" behind something. We talk about composition of the New Worsaw City Core because there is no such center now. I agree with You in one thing, that choosing between plague and cholera it's the same dilemma what's better communism or capitalism


So...going back to the ground of Warsaw its pity we must use the symbols of capitalism-skyscrypers to surround "the famous palace" but is there any other better system or choice for now ?
I 'm not proud about that new architecture is nowadays implication of capitalism. History for Poland indicates for us that's better then comunism otherwise we wouldn't ever change the old communisticsystem and transform it in to new face of capitalism.History will show what is this choice?What is this democracy? See what happen.But now one thing. COMMUNISTIC IDEOLOGY is finished,I hope in Poland.What is its new disguise?Hard to say.The Palace will not fell bad with proposing new conditions of capitalistic towers around cause the systems nowedays mixed and its hard to recognize what is this capitalism with human face or communism with monky bizz face?

Quote:
I guess as long as the tower is not completely surrounded and blocked off, the other skyscrapers will create a nice frame for it.
Like for Mr.Stalin's FACE
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Old September 17th, 2013, 01:21 PM   #37
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@JanVL




Quote:
We blame the nazis for blowing up the Paris of the north. Not Warsaw itself
Look once more again at that picture with ruins above I put erlier.Can see how many boxes of houses there were good to rebuilt. Quite many. All gone now.Nothing.Not cause of Germannazism only but cause Stalin said so to demolish them to build a famous tower of communistic misery - The Palace of new Culture.:shock:
Don't difend Russia .It's faulf of both when they invaded Poland in 17-09-1939 with silent permission of USA,England,France we must say.
Today we have the anniversary of Ribbentrop-Molotov action.That shame was 74 years ago

[IMG]http://t0.************/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRT1MUiI0MPlij5GotQMyX_H1bnIBo7ZEu-QQRqetpdH--xonYq[/IMG]

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Old September 17th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #38
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@Hunamana
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A nice view of Warsaw's skylines taken by me this past summer.
This is this domination of PKiN in center. Thanx for that photo.

How about this?

or


Not bad ,too...
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Old September 17th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #39
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That looks beautiful. Poles have a great looking capital and it's up to them how they choose to treat their history. All I can say is that it is something they will come to regret 50 - 100 years from now if they destroy parts of it. Like 'ThatOneGuy' stated, the Egyptian pyramids were built by slaves. Likewise, much of Europe's palaces, castles, and mansions were built off the backs of the masses.

We can all agree today, that they add tremendously to the rich fabric of Europe despite many of the negatives that are associated with it. Poland likely needs another generation or two to heal before it can accept buildings like the Palace of Culture, but patience is certainly a wise course imo.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
...but patience is certainly a wise course imo.
Need time.
Forgive but not forget. Such architecture forever standing will not let us forget.

From another side today in wide world cities urban sites are created in that way so some big buildings are exploded and nobody doesn't despair.
That above new concepts and olso trend in Poland shows that there is a tendence to keep the Palace in good condition and to adopt it to the warsaw urban site.
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