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Old July 15th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #241
The_BigGeo
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OK, I apologize to those die-hard Philly worshippers if I came out too negative and condescending with my city in decline comment. I LIVE IN THIS AREA, DAMNIT! If anyone wants, I'll even hang out with some of you Philly forumers in the city if you want and we can discuss the ACC then. After all, this IS the city of brotherly love, so LET'S SPREAD THE LOVE, MAN! I know some parts of the city are growing, and the metro area in general is certainly not in decline. Many of the corporate developments and new jobs are in the suburbs, however. Places like Conshohocken, Newtown Square (Delco), Bucks County, and Cherry Hill have more offices than center city. As someone who's been "hard at work" job hunting I've noticed that most of the positions listed under "Philadelphia" are actually outside the city. SEPTA got great coverage maybe compared to LA and west coast cities, but the services and schedules are terrible. Commuter Rail LOOKS extensive and well covered on a map but one train every hour isn't great frequency. The trolleys and buses also have terrible services too. I used to live in Broomall and my folks discouraged me from taking the bus because I often have to wait for more than 20 minutes at the station and buses never run on schedule. Most of the time they were 5-10 mins. late when I checked my watch. Add to that many important spots IN THE CITY aren't covered by rail (arts museum, south philly, just 2 of MANY examples) and doing errands can be a pain in the ass. About the people moving into center city, many of them don't 'settle' there and raise families. They might stay there after college for some years and then buy a house in the nearby suburbs and end up commuting. They do it to take advantage of safer neighborhoods, better schools, and better public services. I'm saying this because I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THIS. And even if you think center city is growing, then the rest of the city is shrinking. Philly just has some really nice areas surrounded by a giant ghetto.

OK, back on topic. I think the building's design is ridiculous in only having 63 stories for 1500 ft. This means that they're doing this to get a height record and this is a prestige project rather than a reasonable addition of office space. I thought the Comcast building was lame when I found out that it had FEWER stories than Liberty One (also notice this was the first time in almost 20 years a new skyscraper went up).

Also just on a side note I did propose a new subway line for SEPTA but after reading some news I'm not too optimistic about submitting it to them. I talked about this w/ some people I worked with and they all thought I was daydreaming and wouldn't take me seriously.
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Old July 15th, 2008, 05:24 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_BigGeo View Post
OK, I apologize to those die-hard Philly worshippers if I came out too negative and condescending with my city in decline comment. I LIVE IN THIS AREA, DAMNIT! If anyone wants, I'll even hang out with some of you Philly forumers in the city if you want and we can discuss the ACC then. After all, this IS the city of brotherly love, so LET'S SPREAD THE LOVE, MAN! I know some parts of the city are growing, and the metro area in general is certainly not in decline. Many of the corporate developments and new jobs are in the suburbs, however. Places like Conshohocken, Newtown Square (Delco), Bucks County, and Cherry Hill have more offices than center city. As someone who's been "hard at work" job hunting I've noticed that most of the positions listed under "Philadelphia" are actually outside the city. SEPTA got great coverage maybe compared to LA and west coast cities, but the services and schedules are terrible. Commuter Rail LOOKS extensive and well covered on a map but one train every hour isn't great frequency. The trolleys and buses also have terrible services too. I used to live in Broomall and my folks discouraged me from taking the bus because I often have to wait for more than 20 minutes at the station and buses never run on schedule. Most of the time they were 5-10 mins. late when I checked my watch. Add to that many important spots IN THE CITY aren't covered by rail (arts museum, south philly, just 2 of MANY examples) and doing errands can be a pain in the ass. About the people moving into center city, many of them don't 'settle' there and raise families. They might stay there after college for some years and then buy a house in the nearby suburbs and end up commuting. They do it to take advantage of safer neighborhoods, better schools, and better public services. I'm saying this because I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THIS. And even if you think center city is growing, then the rest of the city is shrinking. Philly just has some really nice areas surrounded by a giant ghetto.

OK, back on topic. I think the building's design is ridiculous in only having 63 stories for 1500 ft. This means that they're doing this to get a height record and this is a prestige project rather than a reasonable addition of office space. I thought the Comcast building was lame when I found out that it had FEWER stories than Liberty One (also notice this was the first time in almost 20 years a new skyscraper went up).

Also just on a side note I did propose a new subway line for SEPTA but after reading some news I'm not too optimistic about submitting it to them. I talked about this w/ some people I worked with and they all thought I was daydreaming and wouldn't take me seriously.
Actually tall floors allow greater flexibility with tenants.

As for SEPTA, it'd be nice if they had increased rail service intervals, and re-open the newtown line, even if it means building new stations & adding crossing signals along the now mostly paved-over tracks between fox chase & newtown. I'd go to philly 10x more often if i could get there from here!!

- Andy
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Old July 15th, 2008, 04:41 PM   #243
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OK, I apologize to those die-hard Philly worshippers if I came out too negative and condescending with my city in decline comment. I LIVE IN THIS AREA, DAMNIT! If anyone wants, I'll even hang out with some of you Philly forumers in the city if you want and we can discuss the ACC then. After all, this IS the city of brotherly love, so LET'S SPREAD THE LOVE, MAN! I know some parts of the city are growing, and the metro area in general is certainly not in decline. Many of the corporate developments and new jobs are in the suburbs, however. Places like Conshohocken, Newtown Square (Delco), Bucks County, and Cherry Hill have more offices than center city. As someone who's been "hard at work" job hunting I've noticed that most of the positions listed under "Philadelphia" are actually outside the city. SEPTA got great coverage maybe compared to LA and west coast cities, but the services and schedules are terrible. Commuter Rail LOOKS extensive and well covered on a map but one train every hour isn't great frequency. The trolleys and buses also have terrible services too. I used to live in Broomall and my folks discouraged me from taking the bus because I often have to wait for more than 20 minutes at the station and buses never run on schedule. Most of the time they were 5-10 mins. late when I checked my watch. Add to that many important spots IN THE CITY aren't covered by rail (arts museum, south philly, just 2 of MANY examples) and doing errands can be a pain in the ass. About the people moving into center city, many of them don't 'settle' there and raise families. They might stay there after college for some years and then buy a house in the nearby suburbs and end up commuting. They do it to take advantage of safer neighborhoods, better schools, and better public services. I'm saying this because I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THIS. And even if you think center city is growing, then the rest of the city is shrinking. Philly just has some really nice areas surrounded by a giant ghetto.

OK, back on topic. I think the building's design is ridiculous in only having 63 stories for 1500 ft. This means that they're doing this to get a height record and this is a prestige project rather than a reasonable addition of office space. I thought the Comcast building was lame when I found out that it had FEWER stories than Liberty One (also notice this was the first time in almost 20 years a new skyscraper went up).

Also just on a side note I did propose a new subway line for SEPTA but after reading some news I'm not too optimistic about submitting it to them. I talked about this w/ some people I worked with and they all thought I was daydreaming and wouldn't take me seriously.

LOL, Bro, you tell em. As a proud former Philadelphian I think we need to be honest. I loved my City and I would defend it but I also freely admitted that it was a craphole. There is no shame in admitting that a place that you love has crappy transit, corrupt Government, bad schools, and the worst airport in the known universe.

It is a great, historically significant City with wonderful neighborhoods and an unbelievable mix of cultures......................it is also a craphole with the worst sportsfans this side of Euro futball hooligans. There is no shame in admitting that.
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Old July 15th, 2008, 07:56 PM   #244
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About the people moving into center city, many of them don't 'settle' there and raise families. They might stay there after college for some years and then buy a house in the nearby suburbs and end up commuting. They do it to take advantage of safer neighborhoods, better schools, and better public services. I'm saying this because I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THIS. And even if you think center city is growing, then the rest of the city is shrinking. Philly just has some really nice areas surrounded by a giant ghetto.
I did not mean Philly specifically has young people settling within the city--yet. One of Philly's problems is that this really doesn't happen except in select instances near universities and in the far-reaching areas of the city. But I can name a multitude of recently revitalized and changing cities where young people ARE settling AND beginning families. I'm in my early 20s, I know plenty of people in this demographic who are in this very situation, and hopefully it will continue its upward trend and spread to Philly in the near future, but only if schools get better (and better education means less crime).

On your next point, nobody said that Philly was growing. In fact, I believe the words I used were that it was still struggling to sputter to life in some places and in others was still a war zone.

The point is that the suburbs are a thing of the past. NOT inner ring suburbs close to or bordering the city, which in many respects are cities themselves. They will continue to receive more investment just as the Philly will. But the exponential growth of the outer suburbs will become less and less prevalent in the coming years, no doubt, as cities become more desirable once again. Philly needs to invest in itself so that it doesn't continue to get left in the dust by other Northeast cities that are stealing its young people and talent away. A first step is investing in upgrading the public transit infrastructure and expanding it to create a more comprehensive system that covers all the city's bases. Then you'll see private investment come without much help from city and state tax breaks or financing because if the people can actually get there, the investment will come.

This "American Commerce Center" won't be built without immense tax breaks from all levels of the government--something the developers would be looking for because of what happened with the Comcast Center. This is not where public dollars should be spent at this time, especially with so many other better investments, dollar for dollar, out there already. Hopefully city leaders realize this, and won't hide behind another enormous Center City project, proclaiming that the city is cured of all its illnesses, because that's not the case if they're going to have to give huge tax breaks, etc. So that's my thinking. If city leaders are even a little bit smart, they won't give in to huge tax breaks for this project (one that is still horrifically ugly, and unnecessarily tall for the number of floors it will have). So if leaders don't give in to tax breaks or public financing, it won't get built, period. Whatever happened to an architectural review board, anyway?
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Old July 15th, 2008, 08:03 PM   #245
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...and the worst airport in the known universe.
I wasn't going to bring up the Airport but since you did... The only good thing about Philadelphia's Airport is that makes every other airport in the world look good. I've flown through just about every major airport in the U.S. and overseas and none are as bad at Philadelphia's. It's very confusing to navigate around, gate numbering and locations are like a maze, it's dirty and trying to clear customs is like waiting in line at Walt Disney World! It's one Airport I try to avoid if at all possible.
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Old July 15th, 2008, 09:53 PM   #246
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Site of ACC






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Old July 15th, 2008, 10:40 PM   #247
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Wow, PhillyGuy85, those shots are outstanding !!

Between NY and Philly, we are really getting some exciting new skyscrapers.
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Old July 15th, 2008, 10:50 PM   #248
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Wow, PhillyGuy85, those shots are outstanding !!

Between NY and Philly, we are really getting some exciting new skyscrapers.
FISH!!!!! How you been??? NY will always have the best Skyscrapers, but it's good to see Philly starting to grow.
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Old July 15th, 2008, 11:07 PM   #249
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Tue, Jul. 15, 2008
City planners meet today on Phila.’s tallest skyscraper

By Patrick Kersktra

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

The Philadelphia City Planning Commission will hold an information session today at 1 p.m. to consider a rezoning request that would help clear the way for the city's largest skyscraper to be built at 18th and Arch Streets in Center City.
The proposed 1,500 foot tower, known as the American Commerce Center, would soar over the just completed Comcast Center (which tops out at 975-feet), and indeed would be among the tallest buildings in the United States.

Mayor Nutter has publicly praised the proposal, but some neighbors oppose the project, calling it out of scale with the surrounding community and objecting to the shadows it is likely to cast on some residences. State Sen. Vince Fumo is also opposed to the project.

No vote will be made today by the Planning Commission. Even if it receives Planning Commission approval, it is not at all certain the American Commerce Center will be built. The property owners, Walnut Street Capital L.L.C. have not attempted a project anywhere near as large as this before, and some doubt they will be able to attract the tenants needed to secure financing for the skyscraper, which would likely cost about $1 billion to build.

Source - http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...kyscraper.html
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Old July 15th, 2008, 11:20 PM   #250
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some neighbors oppose the project, calling it out of scale with the surrounding community and objecting to the shadows it is likely to cast on some residences. State Sen. Vince Fumo is also opposed to the project.
Senator Fumo will face an uphill battle when he runs for reelection.

As for the NIMBY's, they will witness the term when money talks.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 12:29 AM   #251
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I have a confession to make. My views about Philly may be colored by the fact that I live in University City. You see, here in UC the property values have been going up, gentrification -whatever that is - is bringing the neighborhood up, crime is down most neighbors are fixing up their old Victorian homes (I live in a 115 year old 6 bedroom house with two staircases), new trendy restaurants and bars popping up, quirky shops, etc. I rely on the #34 trolley which is usually dependable.

I just don't buy the argument about "decline." The city's population declined, but not the greater metro area. A city's political boundaries is not that significant ... to me Hatboro, Elkins Park, Chester, etc are all part of Philly. Did you know that Miami, Florida only has about 400,000 people within it's city limits? That fact is irrelevant to corportations, developers, most industries .... because Miami-Dade County has approx. 2 million, and greater Metro Miami has over 4.5 million people. Can you understand my point of view?

Did you know New York City experienced population decline between 1950 and 1990? Now the population of NYC has reached new records.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 12:49 AM   #252
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Philadelphia, city of blue dreams.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 06:37 AM   #253
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I have a confession to make. My views about Philly may be colored by the fact that I live in University City. You see, here in UC the property values have been going up, gentrification -whatever that is - is bringing the neighborhood up, crime is down most neighbors are fixing up their old Victorian homes (I live in a 115 year old 6 bedroom house with two staircases), new trendy restaurants and bars popping up, quirky shops, etc. I rely on the #34 trolley which is usually dependable.

I just don't buy the argument about "decline." The city's population declined, but not the greater metro area. A city's political boundaries is not that significant ... to me Hatboro, Elkins Park, Chester, etc are all part of Philly. Did you know that Miami, Florida only has about 400,000 people within it's city limits? That fact is irrelevant to corportations, developers, most industries .... because Miami-Dade County has approx. 2 million, and greater Metro Miami has over 4.5 million people. Can you understand my point of view?

Did you know New York City experienced population decline between 1950 and 1990? Now the population of NYC has reached new records.
Nobody's saying Philly's in decline. NYC only had a population rollercoaster ride between 1950 and 1980. It went up between 1960 and 1970. It's unfair, though, to compare any city to NYC. The scales are just too different.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 01:35 AM   #254
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Old July 17th, 2008, 01:37 AM   #255
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American Commerce Center Public Comment

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...tid=1670053642
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Old July 17th, 2008, 03:49 AM   #256
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American Commerce Center Public Comment

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...tid=1670053642
Who is that guy (jerk)

Oh good, someone proposed an observation deck!!

Last edited by fish; July 17th, 2008 at 04:23 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 03:53 AM   #257
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WOW....NEEDS SOME DESPERATE IMPROVMENT!! GOOD HEIGHT THOUGH! BUT THIS JUST WON'T LOOK RIGHT IN PHILLY, SORRY!
are you serious???? philly's definitely on the world-class level, and this building will fit right in. it's georgeous!
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Old July 17th, 2008, 03:59 AM   #258
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philly's definitely on the world-class level, and this building will fit right in. it's georgeous!
I agree 100% !!
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Old July 17th, 2008, 05:34 AM   #259
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Who is that guy (jerk)

Oh good, someone proposed an observation deck!!
That's Senator Vincent J. Fumo.

YEAH I'M SO HAPPY THAT GUY BROUGHT UP AN OBSERVATION DECK!!!!!!!!!! That's just what the ACC needs!!!! I’m surprised that some of those that live in the area acutally support the project.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 05:49 AM   #260
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FOX29 News Coverage of ACC Public Comment

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/MyF...1&locale=EN-US
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