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Old October 8th, 2013, 09:38 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alargule View Post
'Custom' = not all trains stop at all stations... can be further split up into:
  • Local/express operations
  • Other (skip stop, bypass tracks etc.)

We're concerned with the first subset: local/express operations. Maybe we could use the five criteria I summed up as a starting point for making the list?
And then comes the difficult part: what criteria to use for the split. A certain number of stations that has to be skipped? Every day?

By the way, some of your criteria (esp. #3, 4, 5: a line "serves passengers travelling over longer distances", "passengers transferring between both modes") sound like passengers have to be counted or even interviewed to figure out if the criteria are met, a thing that's of course not practicable. If not "hardware", then something else has to be found that's easy to measure.


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And in that case: I would split the list up into individual lines (grouped by system) rather than systems, as not all lines on each system necessarily have local/express operations. This is even the case for NYC. It would be even better if we could include the starting and ending station of the local/express segment of each line.
A remark will do. If there's an entry for express service in city X, we can just add a note saying something like "Line Y between A and B (since 1975), line Z between C and D (since 1982)".
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Old October 8th, 2013, 09:52 AM   #42
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Quote:
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And then comes the difficult part: what criteria to use for the split. A certain number of stations that has to be skipped? Every day?
I'd say a definitive line can never be drawn; it will always (have to) allow for some fuzz. Same goes with the metro definition discussion in general. Somehow, stupid reality just doesn't want to submit to pure and pristine theoretical frameworks...

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By the way, some of your criteria (esp. #3, 4, 5: a line "serves passengers travelling over longer distances", "passengers transferring between both modes") sound like passengers have to be counted or even interviewed to figure out if the criteria are met, a thing that's of course not practicable. If not "hardware", then something else has to be found that's easy to measure.
I would look at the design and operational points of view: if cross-platform or otherwise easy transfer arrangements are in place and train schedules have been synched, there's a pretty good chance the whole system has been set up as a local/express in the first place - given all other criteria are met as well.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:10 AM   #43
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OK, to allow for even more precise or 'granular' definitions, I'd try to discern between three 'custom' metro operations:
  • alternating skip-stop: this arrangement is only seen in NYC: the J/Z line have an alternate stopping pattern, to allow for a more even passenger distribution, shorter train cycles and a (slightly) faster ride. There's a low to non-existing degree of passengers interchanging between both trains;
  • bypass: trains skip certain stations along a stretch altogether, continuing to serve stations past the domain of the local train that serves the skipped stations. Examples include the IND lines of NYC (Central Park West line, Queens Boulevard Line) or the arrangement of the parallel running Market-Frankford and trolley lines in Philadelphia between 13th and 30th Sts. There's a low to medium degree of passengers switching between modes: only passengers on the express train wishing to go to a station served by the local (and vice versa) make a transfer;
  • full local/express: here, two different lines, usually on their own, dedicated tracks, serve a parallel stretch where the express line only stops at major stations and the local line stops at all stations. The operation of the local line can be 'segmented' i.e.: local trains do not continue along the entire stretch; instead, different services operate between the major express stations (comparable to the local or 'stoptrein' arrangement of Dutch NS trains). Metro examples includes the IRT lines of NYC or the Broad Street Line in Philadelphia. There's a medium to high degree of passengers transferring: the express trains are meant to travel the longer distances; the local trains are meant to shuttle passengers to their final destination (and vice versa).

Maybe, just maybe it might be worth your while to cover all three modes on Urbanrail.net metrobits.org, and then especially the latter two. I would categorize the Jubilee/Metropolitan and Piccadilly/District arrangements as 'bypass', for example.
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Last edited by Alargule; October 8th, 2013 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Sorry, got you confused with the other German metro fella...
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Old October 8th, 2013, 01:24 PM   #44
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Or by the number of tracks:
- 2 tracks shared by local and express
- 3 tracks, one for peak direction express
- 4 tracks, separate full express
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Old April 4th, 2016, 05:17 AM   #45
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Old April 6th, 2016, 12:21 AM   #46
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Thanks a lot for bringing up this forgotten thread! It reminds me I had something on my to-do list.

From the list in the first post as well as some other posts and Alargule's definition, I have drafted this page: preview

Trying to disentangle from the conflicting definitions, I decided to stick to the KISS principle (keep it simple and stupid).
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Old April 6th, 2016, 01:38 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
From the list in the first post as well as some other posts and Alargule's definition, I have drafted this page: preview
Los Angeles Gold Line express service was discontinued in 2007.

Also, there appears to be express service on inbound morning rush-hour trains on PATCO in Philadelphia. Some NJ stops are skipped:

http://www.ridepatco.org/pdf/patco_timetable.pdf
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Old April 6th, 2016, 01:53 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Los Angeles Gold Line express service was discontinued in 2007.
Thanks, deleted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Also, there appears to be express service on inbound morning rush-hour trains on PATCO in Philadelphia. Some NJ stops are skipped:
I've added an exception rule to exclude this kind of occasionally skipping a few stops as there may be zillions of such examples in the world. (Although I don't know where "a few" ends and "many" starts -- maybe when at least 50% of the stations are skipped?)
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Old April 6th, 2016, 02:05 AM   #49
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Also, the Boston entry (The subway shares corridors with commuter/mainline rail, with the latter running as "express" for the more "local" subway.) may also be true for some metro lines in Amsterdam.

I oppose inclusion of Madrid Cercanias, since those appear to be commuter rail, not metro.

I have never heard of line 6e in Sao Paulo.
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Old April 6th, 2016, 02:31 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Also, the Boston entry (The subway shares corridors with commuter/mainline rail, with the latter running as "express" for the more "local" subway.) may also be true for some metro lines in Amsterdam.

I oppose inclusion of Madrid Cercanias, since those appear to be commuter rail, not metro.

I have never heard of line 6e in Sao Paulo.
I've just copied the entries of the first post.

Boston: Maybe you're right, either include Amsterdam and Boston or exclude both, unless someone can confirm that Boston's works more like an express service than Amsterdam's. In this map http://cityrailtransit.com/maps/boston_map.htm it looks pretty much like that.

Madrid: In many sections of Metrobits commuter rails are included, except in the data like system length etc.

Sao Paulo: You're right, there's not even to be a line 6 on the Wikipedia page. Deleted.
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Old April 6th, 2016, 03:49 AM   #51
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Quote:
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Boston: Maybe you're right, either include Amsterdam and Boston or exclude both, unless someone can confirm that Boston's works more like an express service than Amsterdam's. In this map http://cityrailtransit.com/maps/boston_map.htm it looks pretty much like that.
I can't speak to Amsterdam, but in those sections where Boston commuter rail is in the same corridor as the subway (Red and Orange Lines south of downtown), they are not thought of as local/express services. They do not appear on the same published schedules, cross-platform transfers are impossible (you need to walk up and over), transfer to subway involves walking through gates, and in many cases commuter-rail services are extremely limited outside of peak hours. Due to the limited schedules, it is almost always better to just take a subway train (even over a long distance) than wait for a commuter train to come.
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Old April 6th, 2016, 09:56 AM   #52
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Thanks for clarifying, Woonsocket. I've moved Boston to the examples of exceptions section.

Last edited by micro; April 6th, 2016 at 10:26 AM.
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Old April 6th, 2016, 12:23 PM   #53
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in amsterdam they don't share tracks & the metrolines don't skip stops
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Old April 6th, 2016, 01:03 PM   #54
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Chicago's red and purple line is set up like NYC's Express and local trains. There are 4 tracks along the corridor between Howard and Belmont. The purple line used the outer tracks as an express run skipping 12 stations while the red line used the inner tracks for all local stops.
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Old April 7th, 2016, 04:42 PM   #55
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London's Tube has a couple sections of express similar to NYC's subway.
They have express services to downtown in the AM and from downtown in the PM.
I have yet to ride this during the AM and PM rush-hours and see it for myself,
but I took these pictures from the line map inside the Metropolitan Line.

[IMG]IMG_9984 by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_9983 by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_9992 by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old April 8th, 2016, 03:44 PM   #56
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New Express service in the line 16 of Shanghai metro.



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Old April 8th, 2016, 07:25 PM   #57
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^ Great news!
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Old April 8th, 2016, 07:28 PM   #58
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Quote:
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^ Great news!
I don't understand why commuter rail in Russia and Australia is now included in your list. Nearly every major commuter rail system in the world has some sort of express service.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 07:41 PM   #59
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^ Maybe you're right. And how about the commuter rails in Europe that are in my list?
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Old April 9th, 2016, 11:36 PM   #60
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Do you think I should also remove the European commuter rails or is there a reason to keep them?
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