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Old October 20th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #101
openlyJane
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Great! I'm really interested in Hamburg, and in your impressions of it.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 05:53 AM   #102
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After the Rathaus I decided to head towards the water - i.e. the river Elbe.

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There weren't many nice old buildings reminiscent of England's Victorians in Hamburg, but there were a few.

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A store selling stamps for stamp collectors. Can't even think of the last time I saw one of these in the US.

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Some old money with big denominations from the German hyper-inflation of the 20s and 30s.

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Next I made it to St. Nicholas church which was destroyed by the bombing of Hamburg in the Second World War. The only major part left, the bell tower and spire, was left standing as a monument to peace.

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The church tower is really not much more than a shell. You can go up it in a elevator but it is a glass elevator and you can see there isn't much around you holding up the elevator or the tower. Not for those with a fear of heights.

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From on top there are some nice views. In this you can see the old warehouse district and a hot air balloon used to give nice views for tourists.

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Speicherstadt, or the old warehouse district. It is a miracle it made it through the war but thankfully it did.

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The Rathuas with Hamburg's main lake behind it.

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I found this explanatory plaque to be excellent. In all, I found the narrative in German museums, monuments and other public displays regarding the Second World War excellent. The firebombing was indeed horrific and a war crime but the real tragedy was Germany surrendering to totalitarionism and wreaking destruction on the rest of Europe. Very, very well done.

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You can see the way new buildings are meant to blend with old ones.

Beneath the church is a museum dedicated to the war and in particular the firebombing of Hamburg by the British.

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I didn't realize this before but apparently from the very beginning Nazi propaganda started preparing the German population for the eventual bombing that would be inflicted on them. I think the above is part of that effort.

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A bomb shelter for the elite.

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German women as part of a civil defense brigade.

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This is very interesting. These corrugated steel "huts" are what some people in Hamburg had to live in after the war given that much of the housing stock was destroyed.

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Inside one.

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Old October 22nd, 2013, 12:02 PM   #103
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As you may know, Liverpool also has a 'bombed out' church - St Luke's - which from the outside looks completely intact.

I'm hoping for some more from Hamburg, as contrary to a recent thread that I enjoyed, your view, so far, seems somewhat underwhelmed.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 02:03 PM   #104
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Yes, I'm pretty sure I saw that church. If I recall it was between the modern cathederal and the Angligan cathedral.

There will be much, much more to come on Hamburg. In my first day of wandering around it I was not that favorably inclined towards it. But it was to grow on me tremendously and by the end I loved it. It is very different from Liverpool though. In fact, Germany is quite different from England in general. I'll get a bit further into the pictures of Hamburg before I explain that. There are LOTS of pictures of Hamburg to come.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 09:00 PM   #105
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Wonderful pictures.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 10:15 PM   #106
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Great pictures and narrative. There is also a church in Southampton that was bombed and kept in its ruined state as a memorial, and it has plants and trees growing in what used to be the interior. It was a very contemplative place, I used to wander around in it when I lived there in the late 1990s-early 2000s.

I can't remember where I read it, but someone once said that the visual evidence of bombing raids during WWII isn't so much in the ruins and the shrapnel scars, but in what simply isn't there anymore (or rather, their replacement - lots of post-war structures).
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 04:44 AM   #107
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I can't remember where I read it, but someone once said that the visual evidence of bombing raids during WWII isn't so much in the ruins and the shrapnel scars, but in what simply isn't there anymore (or rather, their replacement - lots of post-war structures).
Absolutely true. It is very clear travelling around Germany that they lost much/most of their history in the war. You just don't see all the history that you do in places like England, Spain, Italy, France and even Belgium. It was destroyed by bombing.
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 05:14 AM   #108
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Back on the ground I continued up a commercial street, still with the aim of getting to the river.

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As the church of St. Nicholas didn't afford such nice pictures due to the wire meshing I next went up this church:

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The elevator line was long so I took the stairs. Tiring but at least you get to see the bells.

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And all the gears that control them.

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More views, this time closer to the river. Note the dry docks on the other side of the river. Later I was to get some spectacular views of them.

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Amazing all the grass on top of buildings. I'm wondering the purpose of this. Can't really be to reduce heat. Germany is too far north for that to be a problem.

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A World War II Flack Tower that I was later to get up close and personal with.

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Back down on the street again I was getting closer and closer to the river.

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Finally I got to a floating dock area that had some resteraunts but also the places where the ferries landed and some nice views.

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A ferry that I think is owned by the city or the public transit authority.

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Note the elevated subway (metro or U-Bahn) line. In comparing Hamburg and Liverpool it is worth nothing that Liverpool once had a elevated transit line along its harbor but it was torn down - Hamburg still has its line. The views from it were quite nice.

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This is a very, very interesting structure. I can't figure out what it is and there is nothing that identifies it. However, it does look very much like the air raid shelters pictured in the previous set - just smaller. If anyone knows what it is please let me know.

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The new structure is being built on an old structure (not visible in the picture) and I believe is an opera house. Not really to my liking but whatever...

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Crossing over the canal to get to Spiecherstadt.

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Seems like every city is Germany is doing this - building new housing but keeping old cranes to show the history of the area. We saw this so far in Dusseldorf, Duisburg, Bremen and now Hamburg.

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Old October 23rd, 2013, 05:30 AM   #109
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Now we got to the heart of the historical warehouse district:

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Note the hoist. Also note the carpets hanging from one of the floors. Many of these buildings now house oriental carpet stores.

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Hard to beat this - canals running right through gorgeous Victorian type warehouses.

BTW, from what I read in the museums this warehouse area mainly handled coffee - what was referred to as "black gold" in Hamburg. Liverpool made its living off of cotton and tobacco, Hamburg off of coffee.

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What I liked about these buildings is that they were in good condition but not TOO good of condition. If you see the Albert Dock in Liverpool it almost looks fake because the brickwork is so perfectly restored. This on the other hand shows its age, very gracefully, but it does show it.

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In Hamburg I would be Couchsurfing rather than staying in a hotel. The neighborhood where we stayed was north east of the center.

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As you can see it is quite green and although most buildings are new there are some older survivors.
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 12:04 PM   #110
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Interesting!

I love the restored warehouse district; it gives such character to the city - and I'm assuming is pretty much all that is left of the city's older buildings...
When I was a child growing up in the city - The Liver Building was black, as was were the other two main waterfront buildings...
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 01:17 PM   #111
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Lovely pictures again!

About the gras on the rooftops. It's also done in Belgium and The Netherlands. It's not to reduce heat per cé. But think the other way around....It insulates like you mentioned, so it rather keeps warmt inside.

Also keep in mind it rains a lot in this part of Europe. Green roofs hold water and release it much slower than normal roofs. This is putting les stress on the old sewer systems many European cities have and it also reduces the chance of flooding.

It's not only grass. It's mainly succulents and hard leaf plants that stay small. It need to be plants that can withstand extremes

http://www.ecoworks.be/Images/Produc...roendak_16.JPG
http://www.groendak.info/wp-content/...%BCnnemann.jpg
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 04:32 PM   #112
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Quote:
This is a very, very interesting structure. I can't figure out what it is and there is nothing that identifies it. However, it does look very much like the air raid shelters pictured in the previous set - just smaller. If anyone knows what it is please let me know.
Yes, it is air raid shelter. They are called "Rundbunker" (rund=round) or Zombeck-Türme (towers) named after its constructer Paul Zombeck.
Wikipedia articel in german https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombeck-Turm

Quote:
Absolutely true. It is very clear travelling around Germany that they lost much/most of their history in the war. You just don't see all the history that you do in places like England, Spain, Italy, France and even Belgium. It was destroyed by bombing.
Let me add: it depends were you go to. The big cities were all destroyed but if you look in the outskirts of these cities you can also found intact ensembles. The (at that time) biggest cities in Germany which were not destroyed by area air raids are Halle an der Saale, Erfurt, Heidelberg and Regensburg.
And I also would not say, that most of the history was destroyed. Many very important cities for geman history or architectural gems were not that big during wartime because they simply were hardly influenced by industrialisation. Such as Gelnhausen, Quedlinburg, Meißen, Görlitz, Naumburg, Bamberg, Passau, Travemünde, Altenburg, Wernigerode, Göttingen and so on.
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 08:25 PM   #113
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Amazing, very nice new photos
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Old October 24th, 2013, 03:54 AM   #114
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Interesting!

I love the restored warehouse district; it gives such character to the city - and I'm assuming is pretty much all that is left of the city's older buildings...
When I was a child growing up in the city - The Liver Building was black, as was were the other two main waterfront buildings...
Wow that is interesting. Maybe they were black from the smoke from ships? I don't think Liverpool ever had much industry by that area did it?

Hamburg does have other old buildings that are interesting. I saw some and will have pictures of them. But indeed this is the major warehouse industry and by far the most interesting architectural area for me.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 03:58 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
Lovely pictures again!

About the gras on the rooftops. It's also done in Belgium and The Netherlands. It's not to reduce heat per cé. But think the other way around....It insulates like you mentioned, so it rather keeps warmt inside.

Also keep in mind it rains a lot in this part of Europe. Green roofs hold water and release it much slower than normal roofs. This is putting les stress on the old sewer systems many European cities have and it also reduces the chance of flooding.

It's not only grass. It's mainly succulents and hard leaf plants that stay small. It need to be plants that can withstand extremes

http://www.ecoworks.be/Images/Produc...roendak_16.JPG
http://www.groendak.info/wp-content/...%BCnnemann.jpg
Interesting. So this is basically a water runoff avoidance system.

I've never seen it at all in the US though in New York some luxury residences have rooftop gardens.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 04:09 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
Yes, it is air raid shelter. They are called "Rundbunker" (rund=round) or Zombeck-Türme (towers) named after its constructer Paul Zombeck.
Wikipedia articel in german https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombeck-Turm
Thanks for the info. But I was surprised at what seemed to be the small size. I thought I heard hundreds of people could go inside these things. This definitely did not look like it.

Also what is the deal with the pointed roof? Is it concrete under that? I certainly hope so. If it is just a normal roof one bomb strike and everyone inside is dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
Let me add: it depends were you go to. The big cities were all destroyed but if you look in the outskirts of these cities you can also found intact ensembles. The (at that time) biggest cities in Germany which were not destroyed by area air raids are Halle an der Saale, Erfurt, Heidelberg and Regensburg.
And I also would not say, that most of the history was destroyed. Many very important cities for geman history or architectural gems were not that big during wartime because they simply were hardly influenced by industrialisation. Such as Gelnhausen, Quedlinburg, Meißen, Görlitz, Naumburg, Bamberg, Passau, Travemünde, Altenburg, Wernigerode, Göttingen and so on.
This makes complete sense. I saw Dortmund, Dusseldorf, Essen, Duisberg, Bremen, Hamburg and Berlin. I'm sure every single one of those cities was a major target and that's why I saw mainly modern buildings.

I have heard though that Munich came out of the war in much better shape. I'm not sure why that would be.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 04:34 AM   #117
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The next day was my first full day in Hamburg.

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This was the main commercial street one block from where I was staying.

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This was some sort of canal I believe but as embarrassed as I am to admit it I never got the chance to explore it or look into what it was.

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Coming up to the local U-bahn station.

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From this picture you can discern two key facts about Germany: 1) the place is highly organized and 2) it has a big smoking problem.

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A future supertall?

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This was a pretty good innovation that I've never seen anyone else. They put the metro maps on the ceiling of the trains. That way no one is ever blocking your view of it. The downside of it is figure out your route fast - otherwise you will have a sore neck.

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The first task this morning was riding a ferry around the Hamburg harbor, or more precisely along the Elbe river.

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This is one of the huge and impressive dry-docks. by 600West218, on Flickr

Immediately across the river from the center of Hamburg were these huge dry docks where gigantic ships were being worked on. It was a very impressive sight.

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I really have no idea what this ship is. It is a strange looking beast.

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This cranes really don't look that strong, nor well designed, to me. But they seem to be a very common maritime crane.

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Another massive ship undergoing repairs.

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I believe this is a old Soviet sub. Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to visit it.

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By this point we had travelled a bit further north west on the Elbe. This is looking across the river. Note that barges are common here too.

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This is from the Chzech Republic where the Elbe ultimately goes.

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There was lots of modern architecture along the Elbe. by 600West218, on Flickr

Along the city side of the river are modern residential buildings.

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And on the other side is the port.

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A whole bunch of tugs.

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I've never seen such a nicely designed cabin on a tug.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 05:02 AM   #118
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Across the river:

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A city ferry like the one I was on.

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No, that isn't really a person standing there. by 600West218, on Flickr

A crazy guy standing on a rock in the river. Well, ok, not really.

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The homes along this section of the river were quite nice. In fact, I was told it was the wealthiest part of Hamburg.

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Those are the most exclusive homes in Hamburg. by 600West218, on Flickr

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Some very nice homes, no?

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Now getting back to the industrial port side.

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Pilots that guide the big ships in. by 600West218, on Flickr

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Apparently they need to do dredging in the harbor.

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Another massive ship in drydock. by 600West218, on Flickr

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Old October 24th, 2013, 10:54 AM   #119
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Quote:
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Wow that is interesting. Maybe they were black from the smoke from ships? I don't think Liverpool ever had much industry by that area did it?

Hamburg does have other old buildings that are interesting. I saw some and will have pictures of them. But indeed this is the major warehouse industry and by far the most interesting architectural area for me.
It was most likely a combination of things: smoke not only from ships, but from household and business coal burning; from port-related industry; from vehicle traffic etc. I think red brick may be able to take a little wear without looking too bad, but portland stone and other similar materials definitely look far better for a good clean.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 11:03 AM   #120
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Interesting. So this is basically a water runoff avoidance system.

I've never seen it at all in the US though in New York some luxury residences have rooftop gardens.
I think that's why they are being build. However I'm not completely sure. But rooftop gardens have acces These green roofs are merely build for their advantage and not for luxury.

Our government says that green roofs:

-Avoid water runoff
-lowers your energy usage (heating/cooling)
-Keeps city noise inside the building down
-Forms a buffer against air pollution because the roof captures fine dust particles
- Boosts the life expectancy of you flat roof because UV rays don't reach the surface and temperature difference is less.


-----------------------------------


Btw Hamburg looks awesome. Looks like a great port city! Looks like you had some Foggy/smoggy conditions though.
How is the air quality in Hamburg in General?
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Last edited by joshsam; October 24th, 2013 at 01:03 PM.
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