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Old October 30th, 2013, 04:36 AM   #81
hieuvui
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I prefer the European style of architecture, in my country only a few large buildings built in this style. My country is poorer, more crowded and land. so this style is not popular people. unfortunately, I'm still learning about this, I hope one day the country will have many buildings were constructed in this architectural style
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Old October 30th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #82
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Yes, after War came the GDR( commis) and they destroyed lot of 90% health buildings extra.
West german cities didn't really do a better job. Besides the only one who is responsible for destroying our cities is Adolf Hitler.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 01:01 PM   #83
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Besides the only one who is responsible for destroying our cities is Adolf Hitler.
Sorry but that's BS. Even before WW2, modernist planners and architects started replacing historical marvels with their bland boxy pieces of crap. Of course the war made it easy to do so on a big scale, but even many undestroyed places suffered badly from the ego of modernist architects, planners and investors. Or just from decay.


Berlin's Potsdamer Platz in 1932:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...haus,_1932.jpg


Judging from the buildings, it could just as well be shot in 1961.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 01:30 PM   #84
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I think people are too harsh with pre-war modernism. I find that 20-30s modernism look more harmonius, well designed and that it is better proportioned than post-war modernism. Altough there is some buildings there aswell that don't fit the sorruondings. The building shown above could have been a result of a fire in the older buildings. Building a modernist, non-ornamented buidling was probably a lot cheaper aswell as the building offered better conditions and light due to the amount of windows
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Old October 31st, 2013, 04:25 PM   #85
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Sorry but that's BS. Even before WW2, modernist planners and architects started replacing historical marvels with their bland boxy pieces of crap. Of course the war made it easy to do so on a big scale, but even many undestroyed places suffered badly from the ego of modernist architects, planners and investors. Or just from decay.

Berlin's Potsdamer Platz in 1932...)
The most of Potsdamer Platz in 1932 was surrounded by Grunderzeit and Belle Epoque buildings (which is even visible on the very same photo you've posted). And it would stay that way, had it not been for the war.

Modernism in small/average doses is acceptable, like raisins in the cake. The problem arises, when it forms the core of the city (or when raisins are the only thing to eat) or, worse, when it doesn't form anything apart from monotoneous blocks of flats. And that is precisely because of the war and bombardments: gothic, barocco, classicism, Grunderzeit and Belle Epoque buildings, with their wooden prone-to-fire construction and "carcass" were first to go.

In some cities gothic, barocco and classicism were reconstructed, more or less accurately, but how to reconstruct thousands of destroyed rent-houses? Unfeasible. So, the remnants were pulled down and we've got what we've got

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Judging from the buildings, it could just as well be shot in 1961.
Columbus-Haus in 1961?? Not anymore
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Old October 31st, 2013, 06:06 PM   #86
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I'm just saying that we can't blame the war and Hitler solely, because large swathes of our cities and thousands of intact buildings were razed after the war. As for Berlin just think of the massive-scale deplastering work of stucco/ornaments (Entstuckung).
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Old October 31st, 2013, 06:58 PM   #87
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Modernism in small/average doses is acceptable, like raisins in the cake. The problem arises, when it forms the core of the city (or when raisins are the only thing to eat) :

This point is acceptable only if there's nothing else to eat. If you don't want raisins, any amount makes a cake inedible.

And if, in fact, the modern structures only dotted the city scapes of Germany and one could avoid them like one can easily pick the raisin turds out of a carrot cake, we'd be OK with that. But modernism has taken over the entire cake, frosting, and serving plates.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 09:46 PM   #89
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I'm just saying that we can't blame the war and Hitler solely, because large swathes of our cities and thousands of intact buildings were razed after the war. As for Berlin just think of the massive-scale deplastering work of stucco/ornaments (Entstuckung).
I don't like Entstuckung either, but there is a difference between scraping the facades and destroying the whole Viertels of city fabric.

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And if, in fact, the modern structures only dotted the city scapes of Germany and one could avoid them like one can easily pick the raisin turds out of a carrot cake, we'd be OK with that. But modernism has taken over the entire cake, frosting, and serving plates.
Of course it took over. It was very simple, since most city centres were in ruins, reduced to rubble.

In European cities which were lucky enough to avoid the war the situation is completely different. Even if those cities went over through modernist "revitalisation", such as in Stockholm.
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Old November 1st, 2013, 01:55 PM   #90
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Geil Tiaren, geil!

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In European cities which were lucky enough to avoid the war the situation is completely different.
If only, if only. You can find tons of places in Bohemia, Pomerania, Silesia, East Prussia and parts of Eastern Germany and elsewhere that were reduced to rubble without any necessity. Almost left untouched by war, they were suffering just as bad. There's countless threads on this topic just in this forum.
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Old November 1st, 2013, 03:34 PM   #91
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London (just slightly destroyed during WWII) and Brussles (as far as I know not touched during WWII) are both good examples for cities, that destroyed vast parts of their architectural heritage on their own...
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Old November 1st, 2013, 06:40 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Sorry but that's BS. Even before WW2, modernist planners and architects started replacing historical marvels with their bland boxy pieces of crap. Of course the war made it easy to do so on a big scale, but even many undestroyed places suffered badly from the ego of modernist architects, planners and investors. Or just from decay.
I think you misunderstood what i was trying to say. Or do you really think that modernist are the reason for how bad german cities look today? It's just pissing me of that some people only blame modernists and Communists. It's unfair to blame someone for destroying already destroyed structures. I say blame those who are responsible for war.


War destroyed 100% of the buildings in Berlin's center.


while modernists destroyed 5% - 20% in european cities.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...haus,_1932.jpg
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Old November 1st, 2013, 07:04 PM   #93
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Sure. But that's what you said:
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Besides the only one who is responsible for destroying our cities is Adolf Hitler.
And I think we, especially as Germans, shouldn't make such plain statements.

Anyway, let's not take this any further, we can have this kind of discussion elsewhere, again... And again. And again.
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Old November 1st, 2013, 08:19 PM   #94
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If only, if only. You can find tons of places in Bohemia, Pomerania, Silesia, East Prussia and parts of Eastern Germany and elsewhere that were reduced to rubble without any necessity. Almost left untouched by war, they were suffering just as bad. There's countless threads on this topic just in this forum.
Cities like Most in Czechoslovakia or Legnica in Poland (Lower Silesia) were rather exceptions, than the rule. Cities, which were left intact during the war, stayed more-or-less intact. Even if they suffered for 50 years of lunatic economy. Cracow and Prague being the best examples.

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London (just slightly destroyed during WWII) and (...)
If London was slightly destroyed, what was destroyed more than slightly? Hiroshima?

London lost over 30% of its overall substance, especially harshly in the City and East End.

Area of today's Barbican Centre, for example, was virtually wiped out.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 09:32 AM   #95
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Cities like Most in Czechoslovakia or Legnica in Poland (Lower Silesia) were rather exceptions, than the rule. Cities, which were left intact during the war, stayed more-or-less intact. Even if they suffered for 50 years of lunatic economy. Cracow and Prague being the best examples.
Plus Jelenia Gora (WTF actually happened there???) or Wroclaw (bricks for Warsaw) in Poland, Potsdam or Greifswald (one quarter was razed and rebuilt with custom Commie blocks) in Eastern Germany, or parts of Bratislava and hundreds of lost villages in Czechoslovakia.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 06:22 PM   #96
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If London was slightly destroyed, what was destroyed more than slightly? Hiroshima?

London lost over 30% of its overall substance, especially harshly in the City and East End.

.
To suggest a comparison between Hiroshima and London in this way is a sign of pure ignorance of the subject.

Fact is London escaped with only slight damage as compared to the cities and urban areas of Germany and Japan.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 10:57 PM   #97
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Every German State/Land has an embassy in Berlin. Some of the embassies reside in beautiful 19th century townhouses:

Bavaria:

image hosted on flickr

Bayerische Vertretung by PR Photography, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Bayerische Vertretung by Oberau-Online, on Flickr

Hamburg:


www.wikipedia.de


http://www.pharus.eu/

Saxony:


www.wikipedia.de


www.wikipedia.com
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Old November 3rd, 2013, 01:19 AM   #98
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Plus Jelenia Gora (WTF actually happened there???) or Wroclaw (bricks for Warsaw) in Poland, Potsdam or Greifswald (one quarter was razed and rebuilt with custom Commie blocks) in Eastern Germany, or parts of Bratislava and hundreds of lost villages in Czechoslovakia.
Jelenia Góra looks as if it was nearly untouched, at least comparing to other cities of Central Europe. The most of Old Town was neglected after WWII. In 1967 some of buildings in the Old Town (especially in Market Square) were pulled downed and subsequently reconstructed.

Although this move was very controversial, and remains such up to day, it had nothing to do with modernism re-modelling of the city.

Regarding Wrocław: wherever its bricks were used, it is worth mentioning that the city was destroyed in 67%. As such, it was one of the most terribly destroyed cities in Europe. And the bricks, which were spend elsewhere came from homes, which had been destroyed or damaged. Should the city survived the war, it bricks would remain intact.

Regarding Potsdam: the city was heavily bombed during carpet bombings. The rest of examples seem to me as exceptions to the rule.

Coming back to the topic of Berlin: it's easy to say that Berlin is modern and ugly, but as I've mentioned before - it is consequence of the war, which'd destroyed plenty of its heritage. So critising Berliners from 1945 onwards is a little bit barking the wrong tree. On the contrary, I very much apprectiate the efforts which were made in this city after 1945 - firstly to lick the wounds and then to make the city growing and beautiful.

Of course, it happened during predominantly modernist dogmas and lots of mistakes were made, but city planners and architects had to deal with destruction incomparable to anything since 30 Years' War. Although I don't agree with many ideas of modernism, I also don't like the atmosphere of witch hunt against modernism.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 05:27 PM   #99
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I'm just saying that we can't blame the war and Hitler solely, because large swathes of our cities and thousands of intact buildings were razed after the war. As for Berlin just think of the massive-scale deplastering work of stucco/ornaments (Entstuckung).
You could actually blame Hitler for the deplastering. Its part of his race against "Fremde Kunst/Architektur" Hitler hated the decadent facades of Renaissance-Baroque etc. cause they were "ungerman". Why do you think his city designs all had these bland blocks with only minimum or in most cases no decoration at all. He tried to define the new "German Architektur" to mixture of monumental Neo Classicism and modernistic desings. He wanted the german cities to have a more modern look without stucco facades. It all started in the 30s and was continued after the war. In fact most buildings of the 50s and beginning 60s which some of you hate so much were build in exactly the "Volksstil" he wanted for Germany. Architects just reduced the scale so there were not that monumental with only 2,50 room hight to 3,50 of the prewar period. Another funny fact is that those "Neo Historicist" buildings that are build today are the same like the one of the 30s - 50s. with nessesary alterrations like room high windows etc...

Some of you really should just open their eyes, take a look around and get their facts right and than stop bitch fighting over the same meaningless topic ever and ever again.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #100
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Ribbeck House

OK back on topic!

The Ribbeck House, right next to the Stadtschloss reconstruction site, is Berlin's oldest and only preserved Renaissance residential house. It was build 1624.

image hosted on flickr

Berlin Ribbeck-Haus von Wolfsraum auf Flickr
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