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Old June 18th, 2014, 01:06 AM   #61
Manchester77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
14 @ 9.21

Do you write press releases for EGIP?
Or do you just read them out loud?
You seem to ignore any posting that's not made by 1M14. Could you please use the quote button it is far easier to read and know what you're talking about when you don't have to work out who 14 @ X.XX is!

What so just because he supports a scheme and you don't he must work for them?
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Old June 18th, 2014, 02:23 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
14 @ 9.21

Do you write press releases for EGIP?
Or do you just read them out loud?
I don't write press releases for anyone. I tend to end up reasonably knowledgeable about things because I'm interested in finding out about them. My comments are based upon my best understanding and I do try to make them as coherent as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
First up -- I fear your posts are somewhat inconsistent.
Our discussions seem to go around in circles and I'm mildly tired of them so I wouldn't be surprised if I had already managed to contradict myself. I cannot remember doing so and I can't be bothered checking but you haven't actually put forward any evidence of it yet so I will just ignore this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
Next -- You do not know your history.
Stepps and Gartcosh were not on the rail network when the original Coatbridge plan was being developed. Stepps was added when the new, direct line improvements became the way forward.
That is perfectly correct but I don't see how it makes much of a difference to my point. These stations are not mutually incompatible with either a reversal at Cowlairs or Springburn and they only exist because of the reversal of attitudes towards the rail network since the late 1980s. I cannot see how the current situation is worse than the Coatbridge reversal idea when that would actively preclude the possibility of serving Springburn, Stepps, Gartcosh and the idea of a station at Robroyston.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
Third -- How short term is short term?
Looks to be stretching well on the way to 2020.
Just when will the track to FG/S be electrified?
The E&G shuttle is planned to switch to 7x23m EMU operation in 2016, requiring the whole of Queen Street HL to be electrified by that time. Since Cowlairs Curve is already electrified now, that will mean that the whole of Cumbernauld to Queen Street HL is electrified and thus the service can return to a better version of what it used to be, including a considerable journey time saving.

The lines to Alloa and Dunblane will be electrified by 2019, including the entirety of the Falkirk Grahamston route. Network Rail are also able to do other 'infill' electrification at the same time, most likely resulting in electrification to (and a new station at) Grangemouth as well as the City Union and South Suburban lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
Fourth -- Glasgow Crossrail
The original analysis you quote is so Moscow Metro it hurts.
Add in the anti GLA / East Coast agenda and it might all makes sense to you.
The City Union line is not a universal panacea to all of Glasgow's rail problems. Like the South Suburban, the fact that all attempts to make something of it have fallen completely flat does indicate that there is just something wrong with it. A better way of creating north/south connectivity for a hundred million pounds or so would be to buy some of the high floor tram-trains that Manchester will end up getting and connect the Cathcart Circle and Maryhill lines together via street running through the city centre. That would disadvantage effectively no-one, free up paths into both Central and Queen Street HL stations and create a good quality dedicated link between the north and south Glasgow rail networks, as was the entire point of Manchester's Metrolink.

Oh, and I'm not an East Coaster either.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 10:59 AM   #63
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14 @ 12.23

Thanks for the reply -- However my basic point stands
It all sounds like a press release -- where is your original thought?

Lots of flannel but my basic point remains -- the C/nauld line services have been butchered and the situation is now worse than it was 25 years ago.

The local paper has been silent on the issue.
The solution to the problem has been removed from the scheme.

As for the future you again resort to analysis by press release.
Stop being so defensive about the plans and start thinking for yourself.

39 mins -- Just how much damage will it do to the service?

I fear that the people behind the new service pattern forget that going for a train is a discrete event and not a continuous function. People will be put off by the 36 / 39 minute duration of the new services.

There will now be more cars on the road going from G67 to Croy station.
Surely this is not the result that was planned?
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Old June 18th, 2014, 11:01 AM   #64
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M77 @ 11.06

Put some content into your posts and I will reply.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 12:39 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
14 @ 12.23

Thanks for the reply -- However my basic point stands
It all sounds like a press release -- where is your original thought?

Lots of flannel but my basic point remains -- the C/nauld line services have been butchered and the situation is now worse than it was 25 years ago.

The local paper has been silent on the issue.
The solution to the problem has been removed from the scheme.

As for the future you again resort to analysis by press release.
Stop being so defensive about the plans and start thinking for yourself.

39 mins -- Just how much damage will it do to the service?

I fear that the people behind the new service pattern forget that going for a train is a discrete event and not a continuous function. People will be put off by the 36 / 39 minute duration of the new services.

There will now be more cars on the road going from G67 to Croy station.
Surely this is not the result that was planned?
What original thought could I apply to this situation? I challenge you to come up with a solution to the problem of how best to electrify the Central Belt, while at the same time trying to make as many trains available for the Commonwealth Games and Ryder Cup.

I am not denying that the electric services now take longer to get to Queen Street than they used to but this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that there are now two of them an hour compared to one previously. Overall journey time is not just a matter of how long it takes for the train to get from station A to station B; it is also related to the frequency of the service and you cannot argue that the frequency has not increased.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 01:46 PM   #66
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14 @ 10.39

First rule of holes -- If you are in one stop digging.

The base question is the quality of service to Cumbernauld.
My view is that it has been substantially degraded.

Now down to one usable service per hour.
Plus two fag breaks involving an EMU.

This is not transport planning.
It is erse covering for beginners.

And for what? -- Freeing up 2 DMU units for 3 weeks of intensive use.
If that is the case -- Where do you start? -- Tail wagging the dog.

The loss of the Garngad chord caused all this.
Penny pinching that is causing chaos all across the Central Belt.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 07:44 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
.
Tips on housekeeping
Hi Fatbloke, without wanting to drag this too far off topic, I offer this small help guide to using the Skyscrapercity quote system. I think you'll find it much more simple and easy to follow than your own proprietary "name @ time" system.

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Old June 18th, 2014, 09:25 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Bloke on Tour View Post
14 @ 10.39

First rule of holes -- If you are in one stop digging.

The base question is the quality of service to Cumbernauld.
My view is that it has been substantially degraded.

Now down to one usable service per hour.
Plus two fag breaks involving an EMU.

This is not transport planning.
It is erse covering for beginners.

And for what? -- Freeing up 2 DMU units for 3 weeks of intensive use.
If that is the case -- Where do you start? -- Tail wagging the dog.

The loss of the Garngad chord caused all this.
Penny pinching that is causing chaos all across the Central Belt.
It is clearly evident that your view is that Cumbernauld may as well be in Kyle of Lochalsh now that the horrors of an EMU reversal is now in place. What matters though is the views of the people who actually use the train and I haven't heard of any dramatic drops in passenger numbers either. The Cowlairs Curve only happened because it helped reduce the cost of running the rail service, not because it was absolutely essential for the service to work, so the Springburn reversal of some of the trains was never going to be that disastrous.

How else would you free up those DMUs? The Cumbernauld services are reasonably quick wins, as was Paisley Canal and as is Whifflet. During the games they will need every single carriage that they can manage so to give them the flexibility of those extra units is very important indeed. It certainly won't be possible to borrow too many diesels from the rest of the country.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 10:43 PM   #69
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Is there enough latent demand to sustain 4 x 3-car units per hour to Cumbernauld? We also need to factor in the not insignificant cost of the chord - £52 million according to this:http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/pa...ultsPerPage=10
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Old June 19th, 2014, 04:41 PM   #70
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C99 @ 8.43

Fair point on the demand.

However the M80 upgrade was predicated on a serious improvement of the C/auld line and 4 trains per hour. From memory this was to include a M80 alternative / Park + Ride site which would also serve Abronhill.

4 tph = 2 tph QS High + 2 tph QS LL and beyond.
Please remember Croy has developed a huge demand based on new services.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 05:37 PM   #71
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http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/t...2381n.24804341

Train firm bid for hi-tech commuter train on Glasgow to Edinburgh line

A NEW hi-tech commuter train, which could come into use on the Glasgow to Edinburgh line, has been revealed.

The trains have a sophisticated air cond-itioning system and power sockets at every seat,

The designs were displayed in London by Hitachi Rail Europe which is in competition to operate commuter trains as part of the £741million Edinburgh-Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP) and in east London.

The company said the AT200 trains, to be made at Hitachi's new 100-125mph train factory under construction in Newton Aycliffe in County Durham, will offer a comfortable passenger environment.

Carriages will have inter-vehicle gangways for better use of passenger space, tables and toilet facilities, LED lighting throughout, air conditioning as standard, USB and power sockets available at every seat as well as passenger wi-fi provision.

The train has a high level of onboard diagnostics which continuously and proactively monitor the train and feed back to the maintenance base regarding aspects of its performance. This reduces maintenance.

The AT200s can be provided in three-car to 12-car formations depending on route requirements.

Hitachi hopes to win not only the EGIP train contract but also the London Overground extension contract which involves supplying trains on new routes from Liver-pool Street station in London and to replace the current two-car diesel trains on the Gospel Oak-Barking route.

Hitachi has already been chosen to replace the UK's ageing fleet of inter city express trains.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 07:02 PM   #72
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Seems to be competing with the Desiro City and Bombardier Crossrail-type units



Hitachi missed the boat with Crossrail and Thameslink, so it's good to see their interest in EGIP. Looks like they would be completely walkthrough carriages like you see on the LO.

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Old July 22nd, 2014, 10:06 PM   #73
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I actually hope that Hitachi get the order. On a gratuitously political note it would help the SNP to portray themselves and an independent Scotland as a friend of the North of England but obviously the selection process has to be entirely fair to all EU manufacturers. EGIP would be a good place to demonstrate the reliability of Hitachi's offering: Thameslink and Crossrail both were absolutely hinged upon the rolling stock's ability to run 24tph or more through the core without issue so the relative lack of experience with Hitachi against Bombardier or Siemens worked against them. EGIP is important enough to prove their stuff while still allowing enough operational flexibility to recover from any disruption caused by an unproven design of train.
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Old July 24th, 2014, 06:01 AM   #74
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You never hear of any issues with the Hitachi Javelins on Southeastern HS1. Seem to just be solid and reliable units. Just what you come to you expect from Japanese rail.

I'm sure they could easily make a good train for EGIP, although had expected it would just be Siemens 380s to make a fleet of identical Scotrail electric trains in order to lower maintenence costs.

(Wouldn't mind bimode Hitachi IEP to run the Aberdeen-Glasgow and Inverness-Glasgow routes. I'm l for getting more comfortable intercity style stock for these routes to replace the 170s)
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Old July 24th, 2014, 03:36 PM   #75
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By the sounds of what Hitachi are proposing, their train can come in two variations: A 380 style inter-urban unit (perfect for EGIP), and a ''Metro'' type unit (for the London Overground, but they say it can be configured for multiple uses, and such units would be perfect for replacing the 314s, and possibly deploying on the lower.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 09:19 PM   #76
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Work starting soon to demolish the Carmuirs Tunnels under the Forth and Clyde Canal at Falkirk Wheel as they don't have sufficient clearance for OLE. A new aqueduct will be built to carry the canal over the railway: http://www.scottishcanals.co.uk/our-...nd-clyde-canal
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Old August 11th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #77
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I love the Falkirk Wheel and everything it sort of stands for.

Locks would have done the job but we go and contruct a big, over-exuberant contraption the likes of which has never been seen before.

A nice change of pace from the usual cost/benefit value-engineering stuff we're usually subjected to!



(I've been once just after it opened... but it was broken! You couldn't make it up!)
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Old October 8th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #78
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Thought I'd copy to this thread: proposed New EGIP trains:

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Old October 8th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #79
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Quote:
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Thought I'd copy to this thread: proposed New EGIP trains:
That's one of the renders hitachi did for their new AT trains. I hadn't realised that the contract had been awarded to them yet
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Old October 9th, 2014, 03:33 PM   #80
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Nice! Fingers crossed.
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