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View Poll Results: Sould spires count upon assessing the height of buidings?
Yes 42 53.85%
No 36 46.15%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 12th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #1
PanaManiac
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BUILDING HEIGHT: Should Spires Count?

Should spires (masts, antennae, misc. "toppings" etc.) count when assessing the height of buildings, or should the basic structure(s) be the only criterion? This poll was inspired by the latest controversy regarding the tallest buiding in the U. S. It was recently determined that NYC's newly-constructed "Freedom Tower" (One World Trade Center) edges Chicago's Willis Tower (formerly Sears Tower) by virtue of it's spire.


Willis (formerly Sears) Tower vs Freedom Tower (1WTC)
[IMG]http://i42.************/2dtt2df.jpg[/IMG]
Photo from Associated Press file



Source: http://news.yahoo.com/1-world-trade-...161340779.html


Note: Please pardon the repetition if this topic has been done to death...
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Old November 12th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #2
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spires that are part of the actual design yes, but spires that are just put on top of the building should not be counted. if you do not count the spire of the burj khalifa where else would you count the the building too and on the other hand buildings like the guiyang twins just should not be counted as over 400m tall, they are nice buildings with a flat roof and a good looking pinnacle on top, but that pinnacle should not count towards the height. spires and antennas should be only there for good looking or function for the latter, not for title grabbing. so like ctbuh i think some spires shall be counted and others not, but since the ctbuh standard was avoided by just calling antennas spires now i think the definition of what a spire and antenna is should be thought about again. the ruling of 1WTC shows how random the decission was, they ruled the height of the building not to the roof nor to the pinnacle, they ruled it towards 1776 feet under the lightning feature just to please the '1776' number, which should have no rule in an objective ruling of a buildings height.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #3
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I voted No because in my opinion a spire should never be counted towards a building's height other than pinnacle height. In my opinion roof height should be the official height. A spire is not a part of a building, a spire is merely a thin steel stick on top of a building. Counting them together with guyed masts or chimneys in pinnacle height: OK. But they definitely should not be counted in official height. I have developed a roof height measurement system that would in my opinion eliminate height cheating (or at least signifficantly decrease it). Here is the thread for my roof height measurement system:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1630487
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Old November 12th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #4
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It's easier to allow anything which is affixed to a building to count. However, spires which are apart of crowns or have some kind of architectural significance should definitely count.
The best example being this



but, IMO having a mast like this to hold an important feature at a height figure of symbolic/historic significance should qualify it as a spire, despite what's below (or above)

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Old November 13th, 2013, 03:02 AM   #5
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Thread-starters 2 cents:

If the spire (whatever form it takes) is an integral part of the structure's architectual design, it counts, otherwise, it doesn't. Metaphorically, if my head is cone-shaped, it factors-in to my height, if a cone-shaped hat sits atop my (normal) head, it doesn't.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 05:36 AM   #6
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Voted yes.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 05:42 AM   #7
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I voted no specifically because of buildings such as the New York Times Tower.

The way I see it, if you lopped off a spire and started it from the ground, it wouldn't be viewed as a building. If it's not good enough to be a building on its own, then it shouldn't count in the official height of that building. Obviously it is very subjective due to different designs, but too often I see a tacked on (unnecessary) stick adding hundreds of feet and completely distorting comparability among skyscrapers.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 05:47 AM   #8
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antenna = no
spire,topping = yes lol
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:51 PM   #9
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Why it is so impotant as how high a building counts? One WTC doesn't look different whether it is 541m or 411m, it will also make the same profits and it will be equal impressiv.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:52 PM   #10
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All spires should count, only some antennas should count.

Two criteria should be at play here ...
1: Is the element architecturally integrated with the building's design?
2: Does the element earn money for the building's owner?

If either of these are YES for the element in question then it should count towards the building's overall height regardless of whether or not its an "occupiable space"

If your building's antenna earns money ... then it should count ... if your antenna does not earn money ... it should not count.

If the structure is 100% antenna, then it wouldn't be considered part of the "Building" category IMHO.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #11
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I voted yes because you're talking about the overall height so you might as well include the spire.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #12
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I don't mind what's the official measurement, but I always compare the real height and 'grandeur' of buildings based on the highest occupied floor.

Last edited by Lindemann; November 14th, 2013 at 05:11 AM.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #13
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In top 50 World's Tallest Buildings in 1990: there are only 11 buildings have a spire. I agreed if we count the spires.

But now in 2013, 30 of 50 buildings in top 50 tallest buildings have a spire more than 10m. And the number of skyscraper have a spire increases rapidly,is unfair for others skyscrapers .

I even make a list few month ago :
Quote:
Originally Posted by univer View Post
Tallest Spire(S) and Antenna(A) for 200m+ skyscraper(roof height in brackets)

1. 4 Times Square- 127m(214m) A
One Trade Center- 124m(417m) S
John Hancock Center- 113m(344m) A
New York Times Tower- 91m(227m) S
5.Shanghai Shimao International Plaza- 86m(247m) S

6.Willis Tower- 85m(442m) A
Burj Khalifa- 81m(747m) S
Bank of America Tower 78m(288m) S
CITIC Plaza- 69m(322m) S
10.Nanjing Greenland Financial Complex- 69m(381m) S
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Old November 14th, 2013, 05:53 AM   #14
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Imo if it acts as an architectural feature and contributes to the overall design of the tower than yes it could be counted to some degree, but if it isn't anything more than a tacked on antenna than no
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Old November 15th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #15
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Spires that are an integral part of the appearance should count, but I think what you need is a proper definition of what is spire, and what is a stick on a roof.
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Old November 16th, 2013, 12:30 AM   #16
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To topicstarter: You have already answered to your question: Building height, not spire height.
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Old November 16th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #17
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Then answer what is the building. Isn't the spire part of it if included by an architect?
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Old November 16th, 2013, 12:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Then answer what is the building. Isn't the spire part of it if included by an architect?
Nope, it is only an addon on top of a building
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Old November 16th, 2013, 12:50 AM   #19
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right.....








just putted on top
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Old November 16th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Then answer what is the building. Isn't the spire part of it if included by an architect?
Building




Spire




See the difference?
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