daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 22nd, 2015, 05:04 AM   #581
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2154

I am wondering what share of the original technology from the license on 15t is used there, whether there is additional license and what is th csr input.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 22nd, 2015, 08:43 AM   #582
historyworks
Perpetual Bohemian
 
historyworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,365
Likes (Received): 316

Skoda developed and produced a hydrogen bus about 2009 so perhaps they have licensed that technology as well? A lot of people from CSR have been at Plzen for training.

The tram itself seems to be stock standard except that it's double ended and with a new "nose" at each end. There are actually two 15T trams featured in the video. Once is the original CSR Chinese-built prototype which is the standard Czech unidirectional 15T, as seen in Prague. This new one is obviously wider (2650 mm) with 2+2 seating across, bidirectional with doors on both sides. There would be little CSR input to the basic tram.
__________________
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

Surel liked this post
historyworks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2015, 05:14 PM   #583
skyridgeline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,524
Likes (Received): 1214

"Hydrogen-powered fuel-cell buses began operating in Beijing on an experimental basis in 2006.[4] Three fuel cell buses, made by Daimler in Germany and purchased with a grant from the U.N. Development Programme, were the first fuel cell buses to enter operation in China.[4] The technology has not gained broader use in the city because air pollution reduced the efficiency and operating life of fuel cells.[5]"

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_bus
skyridgeline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2015, 08:28 PM   #584
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,592
Likes (Received): 5952

I don't get the last line. Why would air pollution have an impact on the life of a fuel cell? Can someone elaborate on that? Is the membrane being damaged by it?
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2015, 08:40 PM   #585
Tramwayman
Trams the Best!!!
 
Tramwayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tbilisi
Posts: 618
Likes (Received): 528

Yeah the new nose is mega UGLY.
__________________

lechevallierpatrick liked this post
Tramwayman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2015, 10:40 PM   #586
Maadeuurija
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tapa
Posts: 1,920
Likes (Received): 532

is it just me or does a hydrogen powered tram seem a bit unnecessary?
__________________

Silly_Walks liked this post
Maadeuurija no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2015, 12:00 AM   #587
ilovecoffee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: livingston nj and new haven ct
Posts: 73
Likes (Received): 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maadeuurija View Post
is it just me or does a hydrogen powered tram seem a bit unnecessary?
it's just you
ilovecoffee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2015, 12:58 AM   #588
Yak79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,275
Likes (Received): 2176

Thence, there are at least six ways of supplying electricity to tramcar motors: from overhead wire, from the ground, by battery, by supercapacitors, with an auxiliary internal combustion engine and with hydrogen fuel cell!
However, this is the first “off-the-shelf” fuel cell tram, but not the first-ever, since AFAIK there are also:
- a 2011 prototype developed and tested - without really promising outcome - in Spain by FEVE;
- the Oranjestad, Aruba line which adopts battery powered streetcars by TIG/m with fuel cells as battery charger - a rather convoluted solution, IMHO.

Here, online reference material:
an article from Railway Gazette (19 October 2011) about the Spanish one.
the manufacturer's official page about Aruba project.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Dennis.Deng View Post
Any idea where this hydrogen tram would run?
I'm not sure, but maybe it's only a sort of industrial sample assembled for internal test and marketing purposes, and not the first item for an actual order.


Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
Skoda developed and produced a hydrogen bus about 2009 so perhaps they have licensed that technology as well? ...
In its hydrogen buses, Skoda uses fuel cells produced by third parties, as well as Daimler for those tested in Beijin; it's a quite common thing in automotive industry: the same happens in trolleybuses market, where you can see vehicles from the same series with electrical equipment by different brand. So this tram could be provided with either a fuell cell unit purchased by a non-chinese manufacturer, a licensed one or a locally developed and produced one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I don't get the last line. Why would air pollution have an impact on the life of a fuel cell? Can someone elaborate on that? Is the membrane being damaged by it?
According to the source (it's Chinese and I simply Google-translate it) mentioned by that Wikipedia article, it seems that platinum catalyst were affected by both gas pollution (solfure and nitrure oxides and carbon monoxide) poisoning and by solid pollution (particulate matter) physical obstruction.



@Tramwayman
I think I'm not the only one here who's a bit annoyed by the way your posts are written. I read some of them in various thread: no photo, no news, no info, no technical commentary, no question neither answers to someone; only your personal tastes, repeated with a perseverance worthy of a better cause and sometime exposed with some manners that utterly displease me (and also other forumers, since you're already been warned because of them).

PS. On internet, typing a word all in uppercase = shouting or yelling at someone, so netiquette suggests avoiding it; if you want to emphasize something, you can hereafter use underlining or bold fonts.
__________________
-
"primo ufficio dell'uomo č perseguire i propri scopi con mezzi idonei, e chi sbaglia paga"

-
- Primo Levi, Se questo č un uomo -

metr0p0litain, :jax: liked this post

Last edited by Yak79; March 23rd, 2015 at 09:55 PM.
Yak79 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2015, 12:43 AM   #589
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,592
Likes (Received): 5952

Oh thanks for that explanation. I am in no way an expert but I should have thought of platin poisoning by sulfuric and other pollutants.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2015, 03:27 AM   #590
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

Oh my god the nose is hideous
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2015, 07:26 AM   #591
drezdinski
Registered User
 
drezdinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,502
Likes (Received): 7332

The key issue about China's public transport is capacity. As much as Chinese cities expand their subway network or purchase more buses, it is never enough. That is why, I suppose, this new tram is meant to serve as another work horse. The whole hydrogen thing isn't new, but, this will be the first mass produced fuel cell tram if the project reaches it's expectations. What remains as an issue is the safety. Though I believe some testing is being carried out, when new and highly flammable technologies appear one can never be sure before some time is spent in exploitation. The thing is - Chinese industry can invent and make anything at this point, however, they often tend to rush into mass production without thorough testing. I honestly hope they will take this one seriously. As for the looks... I wouldn't say it's ugly, but it definitely won't attract many glares. Still, when it comes to public transport, I guess it's functionality and reliability that count the most.
drezdinski no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2015, 02:23 AM   #592
historyworks
Perpetual Bohemian
 
historyworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,365
Likes (Received): 316

A little more detail from the Skoda website, though not in English:

http://skoda.cz/cs/press-room/archiv...keho-know-how/

In brief, the design was in development conjointly by Skoda and CSR Sifang since 2012. It is type 27T in Skoda typology and is based on the 15T with nose design by CSR Sifang. It also has inputs from Skoda 26T and 28T (the latter also having a wireless variant).

It is bidirectional and 2650 mm wide with 2+2 across seating. It is actually designed for wireless operation generally, including supercapacitors and batteries - it's just that CSR Sifang have released this hydrogen version first. No doubt it can also run as a conventional tram with OHW.
__________________
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

Surel liked this post
historyworks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2015, 02:57 AM   #593
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2154


http://www.novinky.cz/ekonomika/3659...ske-skody.html

Yeah, they say, that in total some 200 engineers and managers from Sifang were on training to Škoda in the process.
__________________

historyworks liked this post
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2015, 12:04 AM   #594
Yak79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,275
Likes (Received): 2176

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Dennis.Deng View Post
Any idea where this hydrogen tram would run?
According to these two sources
from Bloomberg (March 25, 2015)
from Foshan Online (March 24, 2015)
the first city adopting such tram will be Foshan, where it will start to run by next year's end. If I correctly understood the Chinese article (Google-translating it), fuel cell tecnology is from Ballard Power Sistem, Inc. - a Canadian company which works in partnership with Skoda also in "Hi-Trolley" program for the Latvian capital Riga (replacement of trolleybus auxiliary diesel generators with FC units).
__________________
-
"primo ufficio dell'uomo č perseguire i propri scopi con mezzi idonei, e chi sbaglia paga"

-
- Primo Levi, Se questo č un uomo -

Last edited by Yak79; April 7th, 2015 at 12:10 AM.
Yak79 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2015, 09:11 PM   #595
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,637
Likes (Received): 5737

Chinese wiki says Zhuhai tram was supposed to start full operation 2015.05.01, but I haven't been able to find any articles.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8F%...8F%B7%E7%BA%BF
__________________

dimlys1994, Zaz965 liked this post
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2015, 05:35 PM   #596
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,336
Likes (Received): 26118

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Chinese wiki says Zhuhai tram was supposed to start full operation 2015.05.01, but I haven't been able to find any articles.
Same on official website:
http://www.zhmrt.com.cn/
__________________

Zaz965 liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 10:26 PM   #597
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,336
Likes (Received): 26118

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Chinese wiki says Zhuhai tram was supposed to start full operation 2015.05.01, but I haven't been able to find any articles.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8F%...8F%B7%E7%BA%BF
The opening of new tram is pushed back to August this year
__________________

Zaz965 liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2015, 07:15 PM   #598
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,336
Likes (Received): 26118

From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=526

Shenzhen light rail PPP contract awarded
Thursday, July 16, 2015



A consortium of Shenzhen Metro Group and China Railway Construction Investment Group has secured a build-operate-transfer PPP contract for the inaugural light rail project in Shenzhen, an 11.9km 1435mm-gauge line in the northern Longhua district

The line comprises a 9.2km section from Longhua station on metro Line 4, following the metro as far as Qinghu. The line then continues north along Meilong Avenue and Dahe Road to Huanguan South Road, where a 2.7km Yuangang diverges. The line continues north along Dahe Road, serving Jinxiang Industrial Park before terminating at an interchange with the northern extension of metro Line 4 in Guanlan

...
__________________

geometarkv, Zaz965 liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2015, 06:24 PM   #599
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,336
Likes (Received): 26118

From Railway Gazette:

Quote:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/n...se-market.html

Škoda unveils its second tram for the Chinese market
30 Jul 2015



CHINA: Škoda Electric and Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment Co unveiled a tram for the Chinese market at the UrTran2015 trade fair in Beijing.

The 100% low-floor five-section tram was assembled at BSR’s factory in Beijing. It is equipped with onboard batteries to enable catenary-free operation, making it the second such tram developed by Škoda. Last year the Turkish city of Konya ordered 12 trams capable of catenary-free operation from Škoda Transportation

...
__________________

:jax:, Zaz965 liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2015, 06:33 PM   #600
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,336
Likes (Received): 26118

From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=526

First Chinese ground-power LRV for Zhuhai commissioned
Thursday, July 30, 2015



THE first of 10 ground-power LRVs being built by CRRC Dalian for the first light rail line in Zhuhai has been commissioned

The 8.9km line, which connects Shangzhong with Haitian Park, is entirely catenary free due to the prevalence of typhoons.

CNR Dalian signed a 10-year licensing agreement in 2012 with AnsaldoBreda, Italy, for the production of Sirio LRVs in China, while Ansaldo STS signed a similar agreement with CNR Dalian and General Resources Company for its TramWave ground-power supply system. Trial operation started in November 2014 with the first two Sirio LRVs on a 1.7km section

...
__________________

:jax:, Zaz965 liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium