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Old April 15th, 2006, 03:32 PM   #61
davidwei01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ
It is pirated. China has a reverse-patent legislation gimmick that is technically illegal everywhere else. The maglev technology is patented by TransRapid, but with a model to study in China to their hearts' content, Chinese scientists will take all the specs and techniques of TransRapid for themselves and reverse-patent it, shutting out TransRapid since they no longer can legally build the technology in China because the patent belongs to Chinese scientists now. It is 100% stolen and I have no respect for Chinese R&D. If I were a transportation operator, I would not only refuse to use Chinese technology from a moral stance, but from a stance of reasonable doubt because the technology isn't their baby, but a kidnapping, so how well do they REALLY know it? How far can they take it not knowing it intimately like TransRapid or the Railway Technology Research Institute in Japan? Don't invest in Chinese Maglev Technology is my advice.
why are you so sure of that? I heard China's Tongji University has been working on this project for over 20 years. And German has denied the Maglev piracy accusation against China.

please don't let your perception affect your judgement.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 03:36 PM   #62
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How are you so sure? Do you have evidence or proof?
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Old April 15th, 2006, 04:44 PM   #63
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OK, if it is already denied by Germany, then I'm obviously wrong. http://beijing.usembassy.gov/protecting_ipr.html (or other sites that explain things like this, there are enough articles) Basing it on circumstancial evidence, China has a history for pirating anything that is successful, I found the timing is very suspicious. But I stand down.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 05:26 PM   #64
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good for china..
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Old April 15th, 2006, 05:34 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwei01
why are you so sure of that? I heard China's Tongji University has been working on this project for over 20 years. And German has denied the Maglev piracy accusation against China.

please don't let your perception affect your judgement.

Not only Tongji University, but also Southwest Transportation Univerisy in Chengdu have been working on the maglev technology since 1980's. One of my family friend was studying there. The basic technology was mastered by Chinese years ago. Of course, none of the western medium report it, nor the Chinese medium. The difficulty for the Chinese native one was to improve the speed to high level. I heard the Chinese one used diffirent approach and design. I agree that importing the German one may help Chinses improve its own design, especially the signalling system (not the actual meglev technology). Remember that China import/buy both the train and the techonology (it is business).

Only 3 nations keep working on the maglev train, German, Japan, China. USA gave it up because the cost.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 05:49 PM   #66
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Another things is that more than one Chinese manufactures tried to produce the native Chinese meglev train, eg. in Dalian, Chengdu. Most of them are back to 90's as for research purpose. Only after the Shanghai one, meglev become a fever and get more funding and finacial supports. As the consequence, the speed of Chinese meglev train improve from 70-300 km/h (if I remember right) and now about 500 km/h.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 06:03 PM   #67
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Let's suppose for a moment that the Chinese DID "steal" it outright. In any case, they've done what Transrapid itself couldn't do... build a viable, working maglev line that serves real revenue traffic. Regardless of whether they started from a blank AutoCAD document or "stole" a 99% complete design, the fact is, they had a hell of a lot of problems remaining to solve beyond that point... which apparently, they did solve. At some point, what they've learned is going to leak back to Transrapid, which can turn around and "steal" them back to build viable maglev lines of their own. If anything, Transrapid still owns the patents on Europe and America and can block the Chinese companies from competing for another decade or so, but can still leverage the R&D the Chinese did to build their own.

In some ways, the Chinese patent system is far better at encouraging innovation than America's (broken) one. In America, you can patent something that doesn't even work, then wait 10 years until someone solves the problems you couldn't and sue them for infringing on some broad claim in your original patent, like "method or apparatus for magnetically-levitating train: claim 1: electromagnets mounted to the tracks and vehicle have like charges and repel one another." If you tried to pull off a stunt like that in China, you'd literally be laughed out of the courthouse, if not fined for wasting their time.

Instead of whining about the Chinese stealing their patent, Transrapid should be doing everything it can to learn how they solved their problems and aggressively working to build maglev lines of their own.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 06:20 PM   #68
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So now its Transrapids fault that the chinese stole the technology?

It took some 10 to 20 years and 2 billion german mark (1 billion €) taxpayers money to develop the transrapid system in germany, beginning in the mid 60s till 1991, when it was officially declared ready to everyday use.
Now the chinese built a 30 km track in shanghai, mainly with german imported technology, and 3 years later-------bang--------they say they have developed their own maglev.

Who believes that......
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Old April 15th, 2006, 06:40 PM   #69
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I heard China has been investing in this Maglev developement project for a while.

Tangshan locomotive company is worldwidely famous amongst the locomotive engineers.

According to Chinese medias ,the top speed of their own developed Maglev model will reach to 500 Km/Hr.(very impressive )


By the way,I think some other countries have their own maglev technology too already except Germany,China and Japan.

For example,Korea has been operating its own first developed Maglev test track since 1994 and plans to start commercial operation of it from 2007 ,I am sure some other countries already have this tech too.

Its project has been abandoned for a while though.
And the maximum speed is only 110 km.hr.

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/...8355711910.htm
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Old April 15th, 2006, 06:44 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pflo777
So now its Transrapids fault that the chinese stole the technology?

It took some 10 to 20 years and 2 billion german mark (1 billion €) taxpayers money to develop the transrapid system in germany, beginning in the mid 60s till 1991, when it was officially declared ready to everyday use.
Now the chinese built a 30 km track in shanghai, mainly with german imported technology, and 3 years later-------bang--------they say they have developed their own maglev.

Who believes that......
Right after Tian'an'men event, West were saying "China is going to collapse soon", I suppose many westners, including you, sincerely thought that would be true.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:00 PM   #71
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It's partially pirated. I mean, how do you explain Chinese engineers breaking into the Transrapid maintenance facility to take measurements? That was at the end of 2004.

Let's see what Spiegel has to say about this:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...402464,00.html
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:21 PM   #72
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circumstantial, not hard evidence.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:31 PM   #73
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How is it circumstantial? That sounds like something the Chinese government would say.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:37 PM   #74
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Just like I had a pistal, and there was the body, does not mean I was the killer. In addition, gaining core tech is not that easy by just looking, China appaprently knows a lot about Maglev.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:39 PM   #75
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What other motive could there be for breaking into a maintenance room in the middle of the night? To deliver a birthday present?

It's more like having a pistol in a country where guns are illegal. The first question is: "what the hell are you doing with a gun?"

China as a whole pirates so much, it is almost embarrassing. From films to cars, it is endless.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:44 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
China as a whole pirates so much, it is almost embarrassing. From films to cars, it is endless.
Got any DVDs?
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:48 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotrfan55345
Got any DVDs?
No. I'm the theatre type of guy. I know people that have enough to feed East Timor though.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:51 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
What other motive could there be for breaking into a maintenance room in the middle of the night? To deliver a birthday present?

It's more like having a pistol in a country where guns are illegal. The first question is: "what the hell are you doing with a gun?"

China as a whole pirates so much, it is almost embarrassing. From films to cars, it is endless.
Well, pointing fingers at each other is a lovely buisness. But I can assure you that dirty thing happened in every country, not just China's previlige. But before you make any judgement, you need to have hard evidence, which so far you have none.

Besides, the germany company has denied any Chinese stealing allegation.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 07:56 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo
Well, pointing fingers at each other is a lovely buisness. But I can assure you that dirty thing happened in every country, not just China's previlige. But before you make any judgement, you need to have hard evidence, which so far you have none.

Besides, the germany company has denied any Chinese stealing allegation.
Dirty things happen in every country, but to different degrees.

This is not a lawsuit; I will not waste my time finding "hard evidence" just for your enjoyment, and you will call it "circumstantial" in any case, which China defenders are so fond of doing.

The German company denied Chinese stealing in order to preserve the relationship. Do you not understand the power games being played here? China is wily as a fox when it comes to extorting foreigners and their knowledge. Four thousand years of history has given us some political prowess. We as individuals have nothing to gain from denial, however. Just face up to reality. The attitude should be one of "yes, but so what?" Unless you direct the maglev program, there is no need to wriggle your way out of anything. Vague denials reflect poorly upon our people; everyone can see through them.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 08:04 PM   #80
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^ Many westners are still perceiving China as a horrible human rights abuser, unfortunetly, that is apparently not ordinary Chinese feel. So think in this line, before you say China is in different scale of intellectual violation, you need to have proof and data, which still, you have none.
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