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Old May 15th, 2014, 04:01 PM   #21
skymantle
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You make some good points, but I do think well-off people or any other people, if given the choice, would prefer townhouses or separate houses over housing blocks and towers. Human scale appeals to us as human beings.

PS: check out this video to see what my criticism entails
http://youtu.be/8lyZzou4mDM?t=21m

Last edited by skymantle; May 15th, 2014 at 04:14 PM. Reason: add video
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Old June 17th, 2014, 07:20 AM   #22
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Old June 20th, 2014, 12:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypersite
The results: Unemployment divided by 3, new-buisneses increased by 150%, real estate value increased, now reaching Paris prices. Crime rate dropped significantly and the city received the European trophy of the best urban development in Europe.

And voilà, It's not perfect but i think it's better than this ugly social-buildings, ho and if you wonder where the people from the old social buildings where placed, they where given the choice to get an apartment in the new-city and 87% of them said yes.
Did they all win at the lottery?

Anyway, I took a look from google maps, and it seems – without surprise – that many "ugly social buildings" are still there.
So, is this only a bad propaganda against modern architecture and pro-gentrification of our cities?
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Old July 12th, 2014, 05:26 PM   #24
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and uninviting most of the time.
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Old July 31st, 2014, 08:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldBlackMarble View Post
That is because the essence of modernity is taking the "living soul" out of architecture. Life evolved in "nature" not geometry. In every culture, since the beginning of time, humans have used nature to decorate themselves and their environments. All societies have flower or animal motifs in their architecture. But in the early 20th century there was a philosophical movement against the romanticism of the 19th century. That led to abstract art, and also "modernist" architecture. Add to that advancements in technology, such as mass production which was perfect for "cubist" geometric modernist architecture. Also the new developments in medicine increased our life spans and decreased childhood death rates skyrocketing the human population all over the world. This required fast easy architecture to accommodate the increasing population and modernist architecture is perfect for that.

So modernist architecture creates a good "blank" cave for humans to survive in, but is is cold and devoid of of the "human soul". Without "frivolous" decoration modern architecture will NEVER be "homely and comfortable". Without organic shapes and the sense of earth and nature most human beings will never be happy. Yet ironically most architects don't understand this concept, because they are simply not wired to do so. Most architects are essentially natural born "artistic engineers". Logical people who are drawn to geometric logic and structure, thus most of you prefer modernist architecture. Very few "regular" people become architects because out of the regular population the artistic people, who are drawn to design, color, and organic shapes, tend to become interior designers, artists, etc. not architects.

So from my point of view part of the issue here is that to architects these types of buildings seem kitschy and pointless, but to the average persons they are beautiful modern buildings inspired by a fairytale like past. And they are the vast majority who populate the world. As an artist myself I agree with them, and I also like modern architecture, but in small doses and where appropriate. And I also don't see a problem with EVOLVING classical styles to modern materials and needs. This is the 21st century. We can't build with medieval technology and materials simply to stay true to a designs origins. That doesn't even make sense. So when it comes to this particular project I think it is fantastic, much better that the "modernist" monstrous monolith that was there before.
I agree with your excellent points except I do not think, in this case, the majority of the new buildings here are in fact "kitschy". Kitschy design involves frivilous, out of character ornament, "gilding the lilly" so to speak, and these buildings are devoid of that. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for some of the more recent efforts in Russia that try to reflect the past but fail because of their over-the-top approach. Like you, I find there is definitely a place for good modern architecture but there is a scarcity of good modern architects capable of bringing a human touch to their ideas which I find quite reprehensible. They have clearly been brainwashed by the modernist movement and seem quite incapable of incorporating a humanist approach, their egos being too large to accomodate designs in accord with what most people actually find appealing and livable.
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Old August 1st, 2014, 01:15 AM   #26
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I think one of the things we should clarify is well designed modernism, vs. cheap commercial modernism.

For instance.


This is what most American cities look like. Cheaply built strip malls with massive parking lots and no flare.

and this;



Ugly endless boxes separated by parking lots.

50% of most American cities look like that. There are a few pedestrian friendly areas, but mostly you have to drive through cold devoid areas like these to find the little "islands" of beauty. So my complaint is more about American city planing, and the American commercial modernism. 90% of American "modernist" construction is bland, cheap, and cold, with only a few icons standing out of the crowd. And the same happened in Romania where I grew up. The communists built a few interesting brutalits buildings but they mostly built commie chicken-coops to house the masses.

The 20th century was about build cheap and for function with no consideration of comfort/livability. So I'm not against modernism, rather against housing the masses in "concrete-coops" under the guise that it is beautiful because it is simple. Sure 432 Park Avenue is "beautiful" in its simple geometric symmetry, but how many average people will live in it? And this is my point.
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Old August 1st, 2014, 01:43 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujas View Post
yes but this city seems bound in the past, and in fake past.
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujas View Post
It's a mess that moderne architecture can't creat something good for simple people without remaking past...
Why associating "past" with "uncomfortable", or "repetition"?

We've got to a point in which recycling is necessary to innovate in some fields, like music.

And architecture, if it wants to stay liveable, has also its limits.

I think that, if given the choice, more than 50% of the people in France would choose to live in the new-old quarter, rather than in the old commieblocks.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 04:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujas View Post
yes but this city seems bound in the past, and in fake past.
The mayor wanted to recreate historical architecture on purpose.

Authentic historical architecture is the result of a long process, and has evolved by adapting itself to numerous constraints (climate, local ressources, etc.) and by being influenced by numerous, but distincts, aspects (religion, wars, art currents, etc.).

Even though Le Plessis-Robinson is said to be an inspiration of the past (or should I say History), it is neither original (the whole town is a vulgar, sometimes indigestible, mash-up of different architectural tendencies) nor traditional (non-use of local materials, fake landscape with a man-created river, constant feeling of sanitization...).

However, one has to underline that this project is a great success regarding the urbanistic content, especially considering what was there before.
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Old August 4th, 2014, 12:10 AM   #29
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A reply to the debate from this spring (late to the party, I know): the best apartment blocks I have seen have all been in Le Corbusier's tradition. His urbanism was mental, but he knew to design a building. A apartment block may be a shit piece of architecture or a great one depending on the care, talent and resources invested in it, there's no other rule.
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Old August 4th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldBlackMarble View Post
And the same happened in Romania where I grew up. The communists built a few interesting brutalits buildings but they mostly built commie chicken-coops to house the masses.
Actually the commie blocks looked quite well designed and likable, in the first decades of communism, right up to the moment when Ceausescu sorta went mad. It just seems as if nobody knew buildings also have to be maintained, not just built... And so they were left to completely rot and become the hated things they are today.
There are plenty of examples of in the Romanian section (like here or here) where one can see commieblocks from when they were new. What happened with them is a historical shame.
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Old April 18th, 2015, 04:22 PM   #31
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Wikipedia article about the place: Le Plessis-Robinson

Commons images: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...essis-Robinson

Some additional views for you:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...all_square.jpg


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...inson-0553.jpg


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...-Pless2530.jpg

It's not so easy to find proper pictures currently, so if anyone can take photos, they're very welcome.
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