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Old February 11th, 2014, 03:54 PM   #1
Pedro EM
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BOEING | 757 and 767 News and Discussion

As we all know despite the Boeing 757 being originally designated as a short/medium haul aircraft it flies transatlantic on several routes which can't be flown either by its competitor the A321 or the 737NG(which has all but replaced the 757 in Boeing's range). I have been thinking for a while what could replace the 757 on thin transatlantic routes which don't warrant an aircraft the size of a 767/787.

Now Boeing seems to be thinking the same:



Boeing Ponders Transcontinental Plane to Replace 757

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...place-757.html


What do you think?
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Old February 11th, 2014, 05:04 PM   #2
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Aviation enthusiasts say that there is simply no market, that it is all covered by the A321 & 739ER, and that the A321 and 739ER is much lighter and economical than the 757 anyway although slightly smaller. Yes I think that is true but only for the 757-200. I think differently for the 757-300.

The 753 might have not done well in the past because the A310/A300 and the lower-end 767s already covered the market but a 753-like aircraft might have more potential in the mid-term future. We can see a trend that airlines are opting for larger and larger aircraft. We are seeing more demand for the higher end A32x and 737 versions, the A321 and the 739 and less demand on the lower end A319 and 737-700. Same can be said with the widebodies. They are also growing from the A300/A310 to the A330 to the A350 on the Airbus side, and 767 to the 787 on the Boeing side, but the narrowbodies have stopped stretching leaving a larger and larger gap.

If anyone can come up with a 753-sized aircraft that can fly further than the A32x-neo or 737MAX (about 9000km in range or more), capable of loading LD3 containers, wider fuselage for structural efficiency, wider cabin, wider aisles for faster boarding, we can have a winner. Imagine aircraft like that could operate as efficiently and as cheaply as a narrowbody yet have the capacity and performance of a widebody. This can open a lot of new long and thin routes. The wider cabin can be great for legacy carriers to install first and international business class seats and the 290-300 max all economy configuration can give very low CASM.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 05:50 PM   #3
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I agree with medviation, that airlines tend to be interested in larger aircraft. This trend can be considered as fully understandable when having a look at fuel price increase over the last years.

Regarding the 757 aircraft: I'm not sure whether it's both meaningful or possible (from a constructive point of view) to further stretch planes like the 739 or the 321. They seem to have the maximum length for narrowbodies.

medviation pointed out that we also see a rise in aircraft sizes in the widebody market leaving a bigger gap between the largest narrowbodies and the smallest widebodies.

In my opinion routes, which the 757 has been designed for (e.g. transcontinental US routes), are good candidates for widebodies especially shaped for short/medium haul operations.

This brings me to my point that it would be a good idea for Airbus and Boeing to relaunch/modernize older widebodies (such as 330, 767) for short/ medium haul operations. Airbus might perceed this step by relaunching A 330 Regional, Boeing might optimize the B787 for short/medium haul operations (a 787 relaunch might be a better idea than a 767 due to the cabin layout; 2-4-2 vs. 2-3-2 seating).

When having a look at 330/787 operations in East Asia we can observe this trend. E.g. ANA is using the 787 on regional and even domestic routes, Cathay Pacific (incl. Dragon Air) uses 330 on routes to mainland China (comparable to domestic regarding distances).
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Old February 11th, 2014, 06:16 PM   #4
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In Asia there is a demand for regional widebodies that is for sure but what we're talking about is routes UA uses the 757 for to Europe.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #5
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I found some payload-range-charts for the 757:
(unfortunately I'm not allowed to post the URL by the forum. Just google "757 payload range" and you'll find some charts)

It occurs to me that e.g. the EWR-TXL route operates at the very end of a profitable payload-range zone. To my point of view they will try to replace the aircraft on this route by a larger one on the long run!? Another scenario might be that the TXL will be canceled and PAX may have to connect in FRA, CPH, MUC, ZRH, etc.

So I'm not sure whether there is a demand for a 757 relaunch for e.g. transatlantic operations.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 08:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
As we all know despite the Boeing 757 being originally designated as a short/medium haul aircraft it flies transatlantic on several routes which can't be flown either by its competitor the A321 or the 737NG(which has all but replaced the 757 in Boeing's range). I have been thinking for a while what could replace the 757 on thin transatlantic routes which don't warrant an aircraft the size of a 767/787.

Now Boeing seems to be thinking the same:



Boeing Ponders Transcontinental Plane to Replace 757

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...place-757.html


What do you think?
Interesting news (link) however I think for Boeing the top priority should be on a 737MAX replacement....Any way we slice it the MAX is based on a 50+ year old architecture, they would need a clean sheet replacement to remain competitive with the Airbus narrow bodies.

I think Boeing should think outside of the box on this one and steal a page from Embraer’s regional jets playbook (E170/175 and E190/195); that is making ONE fuselage wide enough to be competitive with Airbus “A32X” family but also having TWO sets of wings that would span 4 versions; two versions that would cover the low to mid-range market of passengers (115 -160 pax) and the other two versions for the mid-higher passenger counts (180-230pax).

Sure…. it would be more expensive to develop but the benefits of tailoring each model to the specified passenger markets will make them more competitive; the 2 wing strategy would give them enough flexibility to compete better with the regional jets and also to making the top series a better A321 replacement with more capability/range and better economics.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 01:13 AM   #7
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Bump...

From today, this thread will cover, not just the Boeing 757, but also the 767, which were developed similarly to each other. That way, we can complete all of the operational Boeing aircraft as of the moment.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 02:10 AM   #8
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Thomson Airways B757-200 (WL) (reg. G-OOBA)

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Old November 23rd, 2014, 02:30 AM   #9
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Air India Operated 1 B757-200 From 2007-2007 And 3 B767-300 From 2006-2008
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 05:24 AM   #10
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757 is the best aiplane ever made

http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7903942&nseq=3

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Old November 23rd, 2014, 05:24 AM   #11
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both planes are basically goners and dead.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 05:26 AM   #12
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But, you get to see them with all Big 3 US carriers still... However, AA is slowly retiring its B767s in favor of the A321s (Transcontinental) and B77Ws (long-haul).
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 06:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
But, you get to see them with all Big 3 US carriers still... However, AA is slowly retiring its B767s in favor of the A321s (Transcontinental) and B77Ws (long-haul).
yeah i agree that air carriers still use them and you see them at airports.... but slowly they are dying off.

I really dont understand why the market dictates they should build a new 757? seems like such a niche plane that can only be used for certain routes. The investment in a modified plane might not be worth it. Ask Boeing about the 8i.

I understand the modifications for the a321 and why they did it though.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 06:33 AM   #14
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Well, the B757 is the largest narrow-bodied aircraft anyone can get, and its range can be comparable to both mid- and long-haul flights without the need of extra weight or fuel. Think of it like this:

Would you rather send a B757, B767, or B777 on a route that does not get a lot of demand, yet is vital for the airport's connectivity? Classic examples include:

- New York-Manchester
- Charlotte-London
- Chicago-Edinburgh
- Boston-Amsterdam
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 12:27 PM   #15
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FedEx is the sole remaining civil customer for the 767 with 44 still to be delivered. They actually ordered 4 more last month, and probably place more of these small top up orders over the next couple of years.


FedEx Boeing 767-300F N109FE by royalscottking, on Flickr


The main development of the 767 right now is the KC-46A Tanker program for the US Air Force. Boeing is currently building the 4 prototypes, but has run into some problems causing delays.

http://www.janes.com/article/45947/f...ones-says-usaf



Boing KC-46A Tanker by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr


Boing KC-46A Tanker by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 01:13 PM   #16
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The same shit wich caused most delays with 787 - wiring and electrical issues.

First one is now completed, parked in the Fuel Dock. First flight should occur rather soon:
3 next are already built and are undergoing re-work.

IMG_7356 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 07:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Well, the B757 is the largest narrow-bodied aircraft anyone can get, and its range can be comparable to both mid- and long-haul flights without the need of extra weight or fuel. Think of it like this:

Would you rather send a B757, B767, or B777 on a route that does not get a lot of demand, yet is vital for the airport's connectivity? Classic examples include:

- New York-Manchester
- Charlotte-London
- Chicago-Edinburgh
- Boston-Amsterdam
I understand that, it just seems like a niche plane for a very particular route. On flight radar 24 you see them fly to NYC to LA all the time.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 09:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
I understand that, it just seems like a niche plane for a very particular route. On flight radar 24 you see them fly to NYC to LA all the time.
Yep... also:

- NYC to SFO and SEA
- ATL to SFO, LAX, LAS, DTW, and SEA
- DFW to LAX, SFO, SEA, MIA, and LGA
- SFO to LAX, LAS, BOS, MSP, and SAN
- BOS to LAX, MIA, and SEA

Well, those routes can also be served with a B737 or A320, but, if some of those routes have a lot of passengers, flights may be given a B757 for a change... heck, DL also uses B767s and B777s out of ATL (especially to LAX and SFO), and AA uses B777s for its MIA-LAX service.
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Old November 30th, 2014, 09:08 PM   #19
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Here's something I just saw...

Aer Lingus B757-200 (reg. EI-LBS)

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Old November 30th, 2014, 09:45 PM   #20
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Nepal Airline B757-200M 9N-ACB
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