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Old February 19th, 2014, 03:09 PM   #1
Jevpls
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Distance between rest areas, petrol stations etc. on the main roads

Hey, I'm doing some research about the need of rest areas, petrol stations and different other service areas on the main roads in various countries (better in Europe).

What do I need:

1) Is there any law or regulation that recommends the distance between service areas on the main road of your country? What does it say? Probably serveral types of service are given - petrol stations, simple rest areas, repair workshops etc.

2) Is there sufficient amount of these areas right now?
3) How do new service areas appear? Have business people the rights to build wherever they feel the things might go on? Or maybe the state builds something? Maybe state give building permit only in case you build petrol station with X size parking lot nearby?

The idea is to compare your data with my country (Latvia) and to see how good/bad we are here.

Thanks in advance.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:18 PM   #2
Danielk2
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Denmark has (as far as I'm concerned) no rules or guidelines regarding rest areas on non-motorway roads.

There are a set of guidelines on rest areas and gas stations along the publicly owned motorways (all others than the Storebælt and Øresund bridges). These aren't all followed, since they're only guidelines

• Resting opportunities should be no more than 30 kilometers in between
• Rest areas with gas stations should be no more than 70km in between

An example of the rules of distances not being followed, is on E45, where the distance between gas stations Himmerland and Ejer Baunehøj is 115 kilometres.

All rest areas must contain the following:
• Floodlights
• Toilets
• Benches
• Picnic tables
• Green areas
• Trashcans


With regards to who builds the rest areas on the motorway, the answer is Vejdirektoratet (the Road Directorate), that build rest areas and designate areas on select areas that can be long-term leased by gas stations and restaurants. Vejdirektoratet is responsible for the entire rest area. The exception being the restrooms on rest areas with gas stations, where the gas station must provide sufficient restrooms for the travelers.

All signage from the road to the rest areas, even the ones with private businesses is Vejdirektoratets responsibility.

Denmark does have problems with it's rest area. The problem is not too few of them, but too little capacity on the largest ones. Thus several smaller areas are being closed and larger ones expanded to make room for an ever increasing amount of trucks
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Old February 27th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #3
ChrisZwolle
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Road Sign by 50before50, on Flickr
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my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

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Old February 27th, 2014, 10:03 PM   #4
Danielk2
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This is the longest we can do in Denmark (at least on motorways)

image hosted on flickr
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Old February 27th, 2014, 10:12 PM   #5
g.spinoza
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I think the longest distance between motorway gas stations in Italy is 93.5 km, on A25.

https://www.google.it/maps?saddr=A25...ra=ls&t=m&z=11
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Old February 27th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I think the longest distance between motorway gas stations in Italy is 93.5 km, on A25.

https://www.google.it/maps?saddr=A25...ra=ls&t=m&z=11
No, it's 115km, the entire lenght of the A29.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 11:40 PM   #7
g.spinoza
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Ah, didn't know that.
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Old February 28th, 2014, 01:43 AM   #8
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I think that this discussion can be merged:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1678350
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 28th, 2014, 01:54 AM   #9
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From the aaroads.com forum:
http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5335.0

Trans-Labrador highway, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada



James Bay road, Quebec, Canada


Trans-Taiga road, Quebec, Canada


US route 6, Nevada, United States


Washington route 14, Washington, United States


It would be interesting to see similar pics from places like Siberia, Lapland, Iceland, Sahara, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, China, Kazakhstan,... I'm pretty sure such distances do exist there. Maybe on the Trans-Amazon highway in Northern Brazil, or on the "Road of Bones" in Russia's far east.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 28th, 2014, 03:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It would be interesting to see similar pics from places like Siberia, Lapland, Iceland, Sahara, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, China, Kazakhstan,... I'm pretty sure such distances do exist there. Maybe on the Trans-Amazon highway in Northern Brazil, or on the "Road of Bones" in Russia's far east.
The Finnish Lapland is sparsely populated but far away from being unpopulated. That is why such signs are uncommon.

Here is a map of the North Finland, covering about 550 km N-S and 350 km E-W. The blue dots represent gas stations, extracted from a POI collection. In addition to those, there are number of village shops selling gas.



The most problematic leg is the road 955 Sirkka-Inari, 185 km.



Usually, no more than 50-70 km between gas sales points.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 11:44 PM   #11
Danielk2
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Found a little information from Norway as well. The Norwegian Road Authority (Vegvesnet) have made a series of guidelines on the placement and construction of rest areas

On main roads, resting opportunities should be no more than 15km in between. Larger rest areas equipped with picnic tables and toilets should be no more than 45km in between.

Rest areas suitable for trucks/buses must be frequent enough for drivers to keep their legally mandated rest periods on any main road.

Gas stations, restaurants and repair shops are considered private businesses, and are usually located on their own properties.
One of the main problems for co-location of public rest areas and private business is that land can not be expropriated for private businesses. Only where there's enough public land for rest area + gas station/restaurant, can they be combined.

When private business is present in a public rest area, they have partial or full responsibilty of cleaning and maintenance, as well as operating restrooms.

In areas with little traffic, where gas stations or restaurants on private property (with sufficient parking) are available, a public rest area will usually not be constructed, as it is seen as an unnecessary "competition" and a waste of public money.

In a survey conducted by the Norwegian Vegvesen, 1 out of 5 respondents said that there were too few rest areas in general. 1 out of 3 said there were too few (decent) restrooms on the Norwegian rest areas
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 05:24 PM   #12
John Maynard
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As far as I've noticed, when they opened A2 motorway in Poland for Euro2012 from Lodz to Warsaw, there was no exits and no petrol stations for 105 km . This situation lasted several months; at least now you can exit and go to the nearest village to refill . Here is a link translated from a Polish newspaper concerning this situation: http://translate.google.com/translat...h.html&act=url

They were various examples of long stretch of newly opened motorways in Poland (>100 km) without any petrol station for many months , as this example shows: http://autostrada-a2.pl/en/drivers/n.../before-you-go
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 06:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
As far as I've noticed, when they opened A2 motorway in Poland for Euro2012 from Lodz to Warsaw, there was no exits and no petrol stations for 105 km .
There were several exits, and signs showing the nearest petrol station at each exit.

Quote:
They were various examples of long stretch of newly opened motorways in Poland (>100 km) without any petrol station for many months
Yes, this is how we build motorways in Poland: carriageways first, and petrol stations & rest areas later (at least in most cases)
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:07 PM   #14
John Maynard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
There were several exits, and signs showing the nearest petrol station at each exit.
You're right! I found this video taken just 3 days after opening of the A2 section between Lodz and Warsaw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oVS7FLYGkM . Still, some exit were closed .

What is more surprising, is the negative coverage to such a big event (connection of motorway from the Capital to the rest of Europe) coming from such a serious newspaper like "Dziennik Gazeta Prawna", famous to be read by lawyers, judges and political elite. Anyone not familiar with this will think "what the **** they've done" !

Though, was there any festivities organized to celebrate this achievement?
I remember 5 years ago, when they inaugurated the Western Bypass of Zurich, there was a tremendous 3 days festival called "West Fest" to celebrate this event; with fireworks, concerts, F1 "stunt" and many other shows, cyclists and tens of thousands people .

Plan of "West Fest", 24-26 April 2009.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 11:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
What is more surprising, is the negative coverage to such a big event (connection of motorway from the Capital to the rest of Europe) coming from such a serious newspaper like "Dziennik Gazeta Prawna", famous to be read by lawyers, judges and political elite. Anyone not familiar with this will think "what the **** they've done" !
Well, such attitude is common in Polish media, when talking about road infrastructure.

Quote:
Though, was there any festivities organized to celebrate this achievement?
Nothing official.

But... SSC users bought hundreds of bottles of beer, organised a meeting with the construction company (Bogl & Krysl) workers and distributed it among them. I kid you not. Here's a video from this event


Also, someone hung out this optimistic banner
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Old March 6th, 2014, 04:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Well, such attitude is common in Polish media, when talking about road infrastructure.
Could you explain, why are they so negative to what is considered as progress and significant improvements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Nothing official.
Silly negative waves, or was it incorporated somehow to Euro2012 events festivities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
But... SSC users bought hundreds of bottles of beer, organised a meeting with the construction company (Bogl & Krysl) workers and distributed it among them. I kid you not. Here's a video from this event
That's very touching and positive . I would probably have joined the team , if only....

Thus, may I ask you:

1) Why you aren't on the list of participants of the video you've posted ?

2) Watching this video, I've noticed that they were not a lot of brave "guests of honor", why ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Also, someone hung out this optimistic banner
It's a dream, that finally came true .

Last edited by John Maynard; March 6th, 2014 at 04:58 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #17
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We are going offtopic in another thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Could you explain, why are they so negative to what is considered as progress and significant improvements?
Type "polskie drogi" in Google Images and you will get a image what a typical Pole thinks about Polish roads.
If you talk to a typical Pole about road infrastructure, they will also say that:
- there are almost no motorways in Poland
- we build the most expensive motorways and they have bad quality, and "Germans have better"
- when a new motorway somehow gets opened it will soon be closed for maintenance
Tell them that a new road is going to be built, they will reply:
"Yeah, in 20 years maybe."

Journalists know about this attitude, so they don't usually write optimistic articles about road infrastructure, because that would be against most of the readers' outlook. And if there is an optimistic article, it gets tons of comments about "government propaganda" etc.

Quote:
Silly negative waves, or was it incorporated somehow to Euro2012 events festivities?
I really meant nothing other than the beer event
A group of SSC users waiting at the motorway entrances for the opening till late at night doesn't count


Quote:
1) Why you aren't on the list of participants of the video you've posted ?
Yeah, shame on me

Quote:
2) Watching this video, I've noticed that they were not a lot of brave "guests of honor", why ?
This was the day when the motorway was opening - so "important" people were busy with the controls, documents, etc.
Also the idea was to make it a cameral event, so no media were invited.
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Old March 7th, 2014, 12:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
We are going offtopic in another thread



Type "polskie drogi" in Google Images and you will get a image what a typical Pole thinks about Polish roads.
If you talk to a typical Pole about road infrastructure, they will also say that:
- there are almost no motorways in Poland
- we build the most expensive motorways and they have bad quality, and "Germans have better"
- when a new motorway somehow gets opened it will soon be closed for maintenance
Tell them that a new road is going to be built, they will reply:
"Yeah, in 20 years maybe."

Journalists know about this attitude, so they don't usually write optimistic articles about road infrastructure, because that would be against most of the readers' outlook. And if there is an optimistic article, it gets tons of comments about "government propaganda" etc.
Yes, but these improvements are saving lives each day, makes traveling easier and less stressful, faster, etc. Coming from a "serious" newspapers, it still surprise me .

I wish to tell you (now we're "off topic" ), that I've never been in so sad "independence day" celebrations than in Poland . Last time I went to Warsaw, instead of joy and happiness in the "patriotic way", I saw thousands of riot police armed to the teeth, battles in the open streets, thousands of Polish nationalists rioting and destroying symbols of "openness and tolerance", displaying only violence and hatred. I really felt upset and shocked , and keep on thinking "what wrong with these guys?". I still believe that many things are interconnected, and that "the green island" is not so rosy as the government want other Europeans to believe on it .


Polish Independence Day, thousands of nationalists clashing with police in Warsaw, 11th of November 2013.


Polish anti-riot police during Independence Day.

Last edited by John Maynard; March 7th, 2014 at 12:46 AM.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 01:44 PM   #19
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Thanks for response! I almost forgot about this thread because there was no response in the beginning

I tried some searching and I couldn't find any documents that recommend distances between those objects in my country. Well, I found one but that's outdated...

Actually competition "who has a longer road section without any service objects" is pointless because one or two such sections don't show the whole situation. I'm sure that these sections are placed somewhere with small amount of traffic and population.

I did a little research about main roads in Latvia and I'm not sure how well we do Seems like there is a sufficient amount of various gas stations. Only a part of them can be used by trucks but they usually travel long distances and there's no need for a gas station after every 10 or 15 km for them.
Well, there is a plenty of rest areas but most of them are in bad condition. The smallest ones aren't maintained and that means bad pavement, trash all around and sometimes they aren't safe for resting (local low level criminals trying to steal fuel and goods). There are some rest areas with security cameras but there are only some of them.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 11:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jevpls View Post
I'm sure that these sections are placed somewhere with small amount of traffic and population.
Not in Poland

Currently the longest motorway section without gas stations is almost 200km long.
http://goo.gl/maps/rVpfM
And will get even longer when new sections of S8 motorway will be opened.
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