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Old July 25th, 2015, 07:04 PM   #6661
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@edil arda
warsaw future
This would be sad.

In my opinion Warsaw don't need supertalls. It looks also very good without. But if they really want to build some, I hope they choose another location.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 07:16 PM   #6662
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Paris-La Défense, by Vincent1746 yesterday :



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Old July 25th, 2015, 07:27 PM   #6663
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Old July 25th, 2015, 07:34 PM   #6664
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Old July 25th, 2015, 07:51 PM   #6665
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Old July 25th, 2015, 07:55 PM   #6666
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Originally Posted by Edil Arda View Post
I hope not too because they are so close to historical building.
I hope it will be. Moreover, I hope that they will take down Palace. The Poles do not deserve to have this building. It was a gift of the Soviet people. Let demolish and then remember that only in Russia, Poland and the United States located historic skyscrapers.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 10:09 PM   #6667
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warsaw by Maciej Margas
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Old July 25th, 2015, 11:27 PM   #6668
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There's something American about how Warsaw's skyscrapers are placed.. like, how it all looks from street level if that makes sense. It's different from other European clusters, like the way they group skyscrapers in Paris, I don't like that. I'm not talking about the skyline, cause I like La Defense's skyline. But how it all looks from street level, I don't like that.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 12:24 AM   #6669
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It's because Warsaw's downtown is fully integrated with the city, like in NYC or Boston [well, maybe not that well]. You can find lot's of other buildings standing right next to them in dense urban core. Also, it is multifunctional, so it lives 24/h a day.
Moscow's, Paris' or Vienna's are in the outskirts, sorrounded by highways. They are functional, but only at 8am and 16pm, afer that those areas are mostly deserted, as people arrive and leave using cars.
Also, It's not an island of buildings that were built as a political statement of power, like towers in Moscow or Dubai. Towers in Warsaw are actually that high because they need to be, not just 'can' be...

In Europe, Frankfurt is pretty similar to Warsaw in this regard. In some cases it looks even more american thanks to architecture and more strict urban regulations:

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Last edited by dexter2; July 26th, 2015 at 12:40 AM.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 12:40 AM   #6670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post
Also, It's not an island of buildings that are were built as a political statement of power, like towers in Moscow or Dubai. Towers in Warsaw are actually that high because they need to be, not just 'can' be...
Realy? I'll tell you a secret. Moscow Mayor does not want Moscow City. It has already rejected several projects. One of the buildings is not allowed to build up to 400 meters. But businessmen are willing and want to build skyscrapers. They insisted on the expansion of Moscow City. But nowhere else to build skyscrapers in Moscow, de facto impossible. But Poland did not need so many skyscrapers. And you know why? Becouse Russia 5-6 in this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_by_GDP_(PPP)
Poland 23-24
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Old July 26th, 2015, 12:55 AM   #6671
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What does it matter, if the decision is political thanks to a political decision (like it was in Soviet Russia before - Moscow Sisters), or political reason because oil oligarchs have too many petrodolars to spend and it would be nice to allocate this money in some big investment?
Building so many 300+m towers in one time in one place from economical point of view is absurd. Market proves that to be right:
http://www.citymetric.com/skylines/t...half-empty-759
http://www.businessinsider.com/mosco...os-2015-3?op=1
http://curbed.com/archives/2014/11/2...pire-tower.php
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/re...thing-but.html

And so on, and on, and on...

Downtown in Warsaw grows naturally, not rapidly. And grows only, when there is demand for space. THAT is a difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
But Poland did not need so many skyscrapers. And you know why? Becouse Russia 5-6 in this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_by_GDP_(PPP)
Poland 23-24
Proves absolutely nothing. india is 3rd on that list. Show me impressive downtown areas in this country. Come on, go on

On the other hand, Singapore is 40th, Netherlands 27th. And you know why? Because it's not overall GDP that matters, but number of different things, with state of economy at the top.
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Last edited by dexter2; July 26th, 2015 at 01:11 AM.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 01:55 AM   #6672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post


What does it matter, if the decision is political thanks to a political decision (like it was in Soviet Russia before - Moscow Sisters),
Yes, it was a political decision to build seven sisters (actually wanted to build a 10, but did not have time before the death of Stalin). That was 60 years ago and now in spite of this 7 Sisters are one of the symbols of Moscow. I do not see nochego wrong with that. The buildings are not empty and are currently in great demand, and in the postwar period, Moscow needed the building. You did not have to build a Scarecrow building.
Quote:
or political reason because oil oligarchs have too many petrodolars to spend and it would be nice to allocate this money in some big investment?
Buildings are not the only major business investments in Russia. In any case, I do not see any political reasons.
Quote:
Building so many 300+m towers in one time in one place from economical point of view is absurd.
Reason one, nowhere else you can not build such a tall building. In other districts of Moscow town-planning council is not allowed to build a skyscraper.
it's a lie. The Western media always lie.
Just see for yourself and decide the truth or not.

Quote:
And so on, and on, and on...

Downtown in Warsaw grows naturally, not rapidly. And grows only, when there is demand for space. THAT is a difference.
I'm not arguing that you all are naturally.
Moscow is also very high demand for real estate. USSR was not built office buildings. After the collapse of his business appeared. There was a need.We built many skyscrapers. Now, when the market is full of skyscrapers will be built slower. It's just natural. Just more stringent conditions.
PS Sorry GOOGLE Translate
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Old July 26th, 2015, 02:54 AM   #6673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
Yes, it was a political decision to build seven sisters (actually wanted to build a 10, but did not have time before the death of Stalin). That was 60 years ago and now in spite of this 7 Sisters are one of the symbols of Moscow. I do not see nochego wrong with that. The buildings are not empty and are currently in great demand, and in the postwar period, Moscow needed the building. You did not have to build a Scarecrow building.
I'm not saying It's wrong. I'm making a point and let's say making an overview.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
Buildings are not the only major business investments in Russia.
Cool, but It doesn't change anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
Reason one, nowhere else you can not build such a tall building. In other districts of Moscow town-planning council is not allowed to build a skyscraper.
Oh really? And what is that:



And even so, what that has to do with anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
it's a lie. The Western media always lie.
Just see for yourself and decide the truth or not.
Show me vacancy rates than, a picture is not a good way of measuring that sort of things.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 03:25 AM   #6674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post

Oh really? And what is that:



And even so, what that has to do with anything?
It houses. Moreover, it is the only skyscraper (white and one that far) above 200 meters, built after Stalin skyscrapers outside of Moscow City. Most of these projects present. And there will be next year. All the tall buildings do not pass the Town Planning Board. White building would get cut off constructed floors. Thank goodness mind prevailed.
Quote:
Show me vacancy rates than, a picture is not a good way of measuring that sort of things.
No overall statistics. The buildings are owned by different companies and do not lead overall planning. I did not say particular per cent. I just said it was a lie. You can see that the complex is not empty. Not even close
PS. Lol. All the news on the links deleted. Just a lot of damning articles written on them.
PPS How is the necessary skyscraper Zlota 44?
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Old July 26th, 2015, 03:31 AM   #6675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
No overall statistics. The buildings are owned by different companies and do not lead overall planning. I did not say particular per cent. I just said it was a lie. You can see that the complex is not empty. Not even close

PS. Lol. All the news on the links deleted. Just a lot of damning articles written on them.
PPS How is the necessary skyscraper Zlota 44?
Nov. 2014 vacancy rate was 32%, rising to 45% in Feb. 2015.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/re...-but.html?_r=0

http://www.citymetric.com/skylines/t...half-empty-759

http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia...4-11?r=US&IR=T

Those figures aren't made up by the western press either. They are from Moscow based real estate firm Blackwood.

http://blackwood.ru/
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Old July 26th, 2015, 03:34 AM   #6676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
It houses. Moreover, it is the only skyscraper (white and one that far) above 200 meters, built after Stalin skyscrapers outside of Moscow City. Most of these projects present. And there will be next year. All the tall buildings do not pass the Town Planning Board. White building would get cut off constructed floors. Thank goodness mind prevailed.
What?
I'm sorry, but I didn't uderstand anything from that gibberish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
No overall statistics. The buildings are owned by different companies and do not lead overall planning. I did not say particular per cent. I just said it was a lie. You can see that the complex is not empty. Not even close
So, the point stays. You can say whatever you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
PS. Lol. All the news on the links deleted. Just a lot of damning articles written on them.
Links are 'broken', because you quoted them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
PPS How is the necessary skyscraper Zlota 44?
Good, It's being finished right now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamMa View Post

1 by Adam G. P..., on Flickr
But "It's a lie". And "western media propaganda". And "links are broken"
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Old July 26th, 2015, 03:37 AM   #6677
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Please provide me with official sources. Articles do not have sources of information. They themselves have come up with these figures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post
Links are 'broken', because you quoted them

But "It's a lie". And "western media propaganda". And "links are broken"
I replied without checking references, because I've seen them. Then I checked if there eslt references and they are not open. But the article still exist. I opened the link is not broken and does not see any one source of information. So it's a lie. Just propoganda. It came up with. Just because the general information on the Moscow city is not an existing member.
If you want to debate about the profitability of construction in Moscow and Warsaw, I suggest to move to the private messages. I have some interesting information. And I'm ready to share with you. Just write me in PM and I will answer
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Old July 26th, 2015, 03:40 AM   #6678
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Originally Posted by Blackhavvk View Post
Please provide me with official sources. Articles do not have sources of information. They themselves have come up with these figures?
Those figures aren't made up by the western press. They are from Moscow based real estate firm Blackwood.

http://blackwood.ru/

http://www.archdaily.com/610406/high...th-no-business

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busine...er/516022.html
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Old July 26th, 2015, 03:50 AM   #6679
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Those figures aren't made up by the western press either. They are from Moscow based real estate firm Blackwood.

http://blackwood.ru/
And where are these figures there? Give me a link to particular information on this site.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 10:44 AM   #6680
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Frankfurt


by crypto (SSC)
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