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Old September 4th, 2017, 10:53 PM   #11361
roguelich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy Sheedy View Post
but I'd also argue that Rotterdam has probably the most organic looking skyline in the whole of Europe, and maybe the most similar to a North American skyline (Let's be honest NA skylines are the benchmark).
No. First of all, the most organic skyline in Europe is in London.

And regarding the "NA benchmark" - the thing is Rotterdam clearly lacks its most important feature which isn't cladding or boxy shapes. It's the density. North American skylines, even if they are quite small are tightly packed and also often planned to make a good view. Rotterdam doesn't have it, its buildings are just randomly placed - in a typically European manner. And this thread proves it, you can barely find any worthwhile views of Rotterdam... Warsaw at least has its one, impressive angle. Better than none at all.

Also, Frankfurt has definitely the most NA skyline in Europe.

Anyway, I don't claim that Warsaw's skyline is in the same league as the best ones, I think there are generally 2 tiers in Europe(three if you include small skylines like the Hague, Barcelona or Naples), and Warsaw leads the second one.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 11:00 PM   #11362
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Warsaw


my pic by phone
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Old September 4th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #11363
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Originally Posted by frankfurtgermany View Post
Every building in Warsaw you need to cut like 20-80 meters of because of the antenna’s.
Not every, many of them have decorative Spires rather than antennas (although you might dispute the "decorative aspect) this is the case with R1, Warsaw Spire, Q22 and also Varso in the future, among others. Interestingly Pkin also used to have a spire just for the looks but later it was converted into an antenna and pretty much served as a TV tower.

Most spires in Warsaw are 40 meters high btw and the highest building without this kind of stuff on the roof is Z44 with 192 meters but she should be replaced with Spinnaker (203) relatively soon (arguably also Skyliner at 195).
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Old September 5th, 2017, 12:00 AM   #11364
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Moscow.



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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:04 AM   #11365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankfurtgermany View Post
Every building in Warsaw you need to cut like 20-80 meters of because of the antenna’s. Btw since when is Muslim or Christen a racial thing? You cannot change race you can change your believe. So no racism.
Agree. While we're at it, let's cut Commerzbank 'antenna' too which also just so happens to be the defining peak of Frankfurt's iconic panorama. Fun ain't it?

This is silly. Everyone can easily look up architectural heights and compare between any city. Spires and antennas have their place in every skyline and they add to the soaring effect of the skyscraper clusters, as do extremly thin & spiky TV towers. Many skylines could really use a few (Los Angeles, La Defense).

Even without spires/antennas, Warsaw already got a good skyline (within Euro standards ofc) that will only get signitifantly denser, bigger AND taller in the next 2 years as the new wave of u/c towers is topping out.

Last edited by dminer; September 5th, 2017 at 03:15 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:46 AM   #11366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roguelich View Post
.Rotterdam doesn't have it, its buildings are just randomly placed.
You can say anthing about Rotterdams skyline and its buildings, but to say that they are just randomly build is a complete joke.
Rotterdam and the Netherlands in particular are well know for their urban planning and the way they build cities.



Quote:
Originally Posted by roguelich View Post
And this thread proves it, you can barely find any worthwhile views of Rotterdam
With this you're proved that you just hate Rotterdam!
Rotterdam probably is besides Frankfurt and London the only skyline which is worth seen from streetview perspective.
Sorry to say, but lots of skyline photo's of several skylines posted here are taken from higher levels, while lots of Rotterdam photos are taken from street view perspective.
Rotterdam skyline is worthwhile seen from the North, the East, the South and the West. I will prove this later!
Personal I prefer skylines which have waterfronts. Rotterdam, London and Frankfurt!
Warsaw has its waterfront, but seen from there the skyline is less impressive as seen from higher spots. From higher spots Warsaw skyline rocks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by roguelich View Post
Warsaw at least has its one, impressive angle.Better than none at all.
Anyway, I don't claim that Warsaw's skyline is in the same league as the best ones
Do you realy know what you are saying? Because with this you contradicted yourself.

Last edited by SASH; September 5th, 2017 at 11:20 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #11367
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Originally Posted by dminer View Post
Agree. While we're at it, let's cut Commerzbank 'antenna' too which also just so happens to be the defining peak of Frankfurt's iconic panorama. Fun ain't it?

This is silly. Everyone can easily look up architectural heights and compare between any city. Spires and antennas have their place in every skyline and they add to the soaring effect of the skyscraper clusters, as do extremly thin & spiky TV towers. Many skylines could really use a few (Los Angeles, La Defense).

Even without spires/antennas, Warsaw already got a good skyline (within Euro standards ofc) that will only get signitifantly denser, bigger AND taller in the next 2 years as the new wave of u/c towers is topping out.


I don’t include the height of the spire of the Commerzbank, for me the true height is the one without any spires. Spires are a way of cheating if you include them to the height. Besides that Frankfurt has only 1 building with a bit large spire. Yet you Warsaw lovers brag about a super tall when in fact it’s a 230m building with a 80 meter antenna on it..
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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:59 PM   #11368
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IMO:

1. Moscow
2. Paris
3. London
4. Frankfurt
5. Istanbul

6. Warsaw
7. Rotterdam
8. Milan
9. Vienna
10. Madrid
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Old September 5th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #11369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankfurtgermany View Post
I don’t include the height of the spire of the Commerzbank, for me the true height is the one without any spires. Spires are a way of cheating if you include them to the height.
And yet the Commerzbank spire matters and the building would look much worse without it. Cheating or not, it adds to the building's dominant presence in the skyline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankfurtgermany View Post
Besides that Frankfurt has only 1 building with a bit large spire.
1?



Quote:
Originally Posted by frankfurtgermany View Post
Yet you Warsaw lovers brag about a super tall when in fact it’s a 230m building with a 80 meter antenna on it..
And the 80 meters of antenna will make a significance difference in how the building appears in the skyline and how the entire skyline appears with such big spire being part of it, particularly in the context of the previously dominant Palace of Culture. Everybody knows the roof is at 230m, you're not breaking any news 'informing' us about it. In the end, the final visual effect is what matters most, as is the case of Commerzbank in full view WITH the antenna, and having a building in Warsaw that eclipses Palace of Culture not only in terms of roof height but also with a massive spire of its own is the most fitting addition Warsaw skyline could gain right now.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 04:21 PM   #11370
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You could say whatever you want.. I still find a 80meter antenna on a 230 building out of proportion. The renders proof me right on that one.. it makes the building look awkward
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Old September 5th, 2017, 04:33 PM   #11371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankfurtgermany View Post
You could say whatever you want.. I still find a 80meter antenna on a 230 building out of proportion. The renders proof me right on that one.. it makes the building look awkward
You're entitled to think whatever you want, proportions is obviously a subjective topic up to everyone's personal view and interpretation. Personally, I don't mind the proportions, same as Bank of America Tower, New York Times Building, Gold Coast's Q1 etc.

The point was different - you wanted to dismiss & shade the entire Warsaw skyline by lying that every building has a massive spire/antenna and that they're all counted towards official heights so I corrected that and used Frankfurt's example to back up use of spires/antennas as an architectural addition

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Old September 5th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #11372
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If you just look at raw height number without antenna’s than Warsaw is at a big disadvantage compared to cities like Paris, London and Frankfurt.
I agree antenna’s or spires add something nice to a skyline.. but the only problem with Warsaw is that it has to many buildings with an antenna therefore demolishing the skyline-view in general. Frankfurt only has 1 big spire and antenna (Commerzbank) and 1 smaller antenna one on the maintower.

The first statement is a fact and the second one an opinion.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 05:34 PM   #11373
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Rotterdam

www.hollandluchtfoto.nl/


Den Haag

www.hollandluchtfoto.nl/



Amsterdam

www.hollandluchtfoto.nl/
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Old September 5th, 2017, 06:17 PM   #11374
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Frankfurt/Main


Es will merr net in mein Kopp enei by Frawolf77, auf Flickr
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Old September 5th, 2017, 08:12 PM   #11375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dminer View Post
You're entitled to think whatever you want, proportions is obviously a subjective topic up to everyone's personal view and interpretation. Personally, I don't mind the proportions, same as Bank of America Tower, New York Times Building, Gold Coast's Q1 etc.

The point was different - you wanted to dismiss & shade the entire Warsaw skyline by lying that every building has a massive spire/antenna and that they're all counted towards official heights so I corrected that and used Frankfurt's example to back up use of spires/antennas as an architectural addition

But in Frankfurt the antennas are not counted as the official height.


Total height:
Commerzbank Tower = 300m (without antenna 258.7m)
Main Tower = 240m (without antenna 200m)
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Old September 5th, 2017, 08:12 PM   #11376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankfurtgermany View Post
If you just look at raw height number without antenna’s than Warsaw is at a big disadvantage compared to cities like Paris, London and Frankfurt.
I agree antenna’s or spires add something nice to a skyline.. but the only problem with Warsaw is that it has to many buildings with an antenna therefore demolishing the skyline-view in general. Frankfurt only has 1 big spire and antenna (Commerzbank) and 1 smaller antenna one on the maintower.

The first statement is a fact and the second one an opinion.
? Except that the discussion wasn't even about comparing Warsaw to Paris/London/Frankfurt and you know it. Even my grandma knows Warsaw skyline is not on that level yet. But it's coming closer and closer as is Rotterdam, 2 cities that weren't really taken seriously just a decade ago but now are actually within visible reach of catching up to the older stablished skylines and I think that's what irritates some here the most.

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Originally Posted by KlausDiggy View Post
But in Frankfurt the antennas are not counted as the official height.
And neither are the antennas in Warsaw except for spires of Palace of Culture (obviously), Warsaw Spire and most likely Varso. So this kind of a talk about "cutting 20-80 meters from every skyscraper in Warsaw" is just pot stirring. Nobody counts the antennas on Rondo 1, Marriot, Q22 or Warsaw Trade Tower.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 08:24 PM   #11377
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Originally Posted by dminer View Post
And neither are the antennas in Warsaw except for spires of Palace of Culture (obviously), Warsaw Spire and most likely Varso. So this kind of a talk about "cutting 20-80 meters from every skyscraper in Warsaw" is just pot stirring. Nobody counts the antennas on Rondo 1, Marriot, Q22 or Warsaw Trade Tower.


Quote:
Originally Posted by evil toohey View Post
Warsaw

Status: Completed
1. Pałac Kultury i Nauki | 237 m
2. Warsaw Spire | 220 m
3. Warsaw Trade Tower | 208 m
4. Q22 | 195 m
5. Złota 44 | 192 m
6. Rondo 1 | 192 m
7. Centrum LIM | 170 m
8. Warsaw Financial Center | 165 m
9. InterContinental Warszawa | 164 m
10. Cosmopolitan | 160 m
11. Oxford Tower | 150 m
12. Intraco I | 135 m
13. Millenium Plaza | 133 m
14. Spektrum | 128 m
15. Łucka City | 127 m
16. Błękitny Wieżowiec | 120 m
17. Central Tower | 115 m
18. Novotel Warszawa Centrum | 111 m
19. Chmielna 35 | 108 m
20. Babka Tower | 105 m
21. Skylight | 105 m
22. PZU Tower | 104 m
23. Świętokrzyska 35 | 103 m
24. Ilmet | 103 m

Status: U/C
1. Varso Tower | 310 m
2. Spinnaker | 203 m
3. Skyliner | 195 m
4. Generation Park | 180 m
5. Mennica Legacy Tower | 141 m
6. The Warsaw Hub (A) | 130 m
7. The Warsaw Hub (B) | 130 m
8. Spark | 130 m

Status: Approved - Demo - Site Prep
1. Nowa Emilia | 207 m | (Demo)
2. City Tower | 155 m | (Demo)
3. Liberty Tower | 140 m | (App)
4. B4 Office Center | 120 m | (App)
5. Łucka 7/9 | 102 m | (Site prep)

Status: Proposed
1. Lilium Tower | 237 m
2. Centralna Park | 200 m
3. Srebrna/Towarowa | 190 m
4. Warsaw One | 188 m
5. Roma Tower | 170 m
6. Atlas Estates Tower | 165 m
7. Port Praski (A) | 160 m
8. Port Praski (B) | 140 m
9. Port Praski (C) | 120 m
10. Wieżowiec Sabe Investment | 110 m
11. Port Praski (D) | 100 m
12. Burakowska 14 | 100 m
13. Sobieski Tower | 1?? m

Total: 49
8 x 200m+
16 x 150m+
25 x 100m+

Total is not a simple sum, because Ilmet is to be replaced by Warsaw One.
Skyliner has been recently announced to start in a few weeks, but AFAIK it has its foundations already completed, so I decided it merits a place in U/C category.

Heights' source: www.urbanity.pl

Compiled based on this Polish thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1966962
@IThomas: thx for the template
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Old September 5th, 2017, 08:31 PM   #11378
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Originally Posted by KlausDiggy View Post
And? Urbanity.pl never been the most accurate source. Or is this a competition where I post German sources that put Main Tower at 240m? Many lists float around the forums and most don't don't count tiny antennas like those of WTT or Rondo 1 that ain't integral part of the structure. Polish construction topic note antennas in thread titles too.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:05 PM   #11379
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..when built a few supertalls in one place..

MIBC and developing neighborhood






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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:06 PM   #11380
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No, not London, Istanbul, Paris or Frankfurt - in terms of supertalls Moscow is, I guess, the best Europe has to offer. But in terms of skyline-aesthetics more European cities can claim to be Europe's best of course! Warsaw maybe or Milan in the nearby future or London, Paris, Frankfurt, Istanbul or even....

Rotterdam!
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[IMG]De Kuip by ossipvanduivenbode, on Flickr[/IMG]
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