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Old February 24th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #1
dimlys1994
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VILNIUS | Public Transport

I didn't found on thread finder, so I created new one.

Starting with the map of the new metro system. On the 12th February the Lithuianian government approved to invite concession to build metro system (the article in Russian). The logo of metro:



And the map:



In 2000s there were plans to build tram, but it was rejected because of low support
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Old February 24th, 2014, 08:23 PM   #2
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What is now in Vilnius are buses and trolleybuses. From Wikipedia:











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Old February 24th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #3
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In the Baltics it was only Riga that was slated for a metro as the Soviet era wound to a close (Riga was approaching 1 million). The exodus of ethnic Russians over the past several decades means Riga now has less than 700,000 people. Vilnius has even less at 540,000. Is this city big enough for a metro?
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Old February 24th, 2014, 08:46 PM   #4
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Brescia, Rennes and Lausanne are also less than 1 million. What's the problem? The question is still on money and succes
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Old February 24th, 2014, 09:41 PM   #5
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It would be interesting to know what kind of metro will be: light rail or heavy. Will be only underground or will have overground sections.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:09 PM   #6
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Sorry, but in reality it is far from any serious plans.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 12:23 AM   #7
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Vilnius has a good size for a light-rail network. I doubt a full scale metro would be reasonable.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 12:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Vilnius has a good size for a light-rail network. I doubt a full scale metro would be reasonable.
I agree, it's not as large as Moscow, or Berlin. But for more luxury it could use a light rail system that could be expanded into a larger network in the future. It seems to be a very expensive idea for Vilnius, as the demand for it might be low, but it may work, so go ahead.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:02 PM   #9
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I totally don't buy into the idea that a city needs to have a certain population for a metro to be an appropriate form of transport. As has already been mentioned, Rennes, Brescia, and Lausanne have built them. It seems to have worked out. If a city has the right mix of size, density, and destinations that could be clustered around stations, why not? And if the earth beneath the city lends itself well to tunneling, even better.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 04:57 PM   #10
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Exactly, city rather needs certain density to build metro. Detroit has it's elevated railway systekm, which is useless because of the low density. Same for Atlanta. I strongly doubt, that heavy metro system would be economically reasonable for the city like Vilnius, as it's population lives mostly in the boroughs composed of commieblocks.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 05:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amrafel View Post
Exactly, city rather needs certain density to build metro. Detroit has it's elevated railway systekm, which is useless because of the low density. Same for Atlanta. I strongly doubt, that heavy metro system would be economically reasonable for the city like Vilnius, as it's population lives mostly in the boroughs composed of commieblocks.
In Detroit there is people mover or mini-metro, which circles around city centre. It's not heavy-rail system
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Old February 25th, 2014, 08:44 PM   #12
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And it's more like a toy - not a real transportation system.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 01:33 AM   #13
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And its just one way, rendering it effectively close to useless. Well, maybe the new streetcar/light rail line is making it a tad more useful maybe. But still, the one way nature really just makes it more of a toy.

Sure, metro does not have to be dysfunctional in a city of Vilnius' size. But as it is certainly a city that should be keen on efficient spending a dense and solid light rail network, possibly with some underground parts in the centre seems much more useful than a full scale metro network.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #14
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To build a full scale metro, you need at leas 10000 people/direction/hour, on a route. Do they have this in Vilnius? I highly doubt. Otherwise it makes no economical sense. Let's not forget that the money for investments are limited, and the most cost effective chise has to be maide. For Vilnius, as stated above, a fast tram, or a LRT, with segregated path on roads, and an electronic system that gaves tram priority in interchanges, probably with a short underground section in downtown would be the most cost-effective solution.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 02:47 PM   #15
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It might be unnecessary but when building a metro instead of a light rail system some close people can get a bigger "откат". The Mr 20% as some say.
And you can get people vote for you. Populism. Expensive one.

Anyways, seeing how many people in Riga travel between the sleeping districts and the city center I think that there would be enough travelers, at least during peak hours. A high speed tram would really be a better option though.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 08:00 PM   #16
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in fact, heavy metro is a wrong solution for Vilnius. the city isn't dense at all and really widespread. just to compare - Vilnius has only 16% of Berlin's population( 540K vs 3400K people) but nearly 45% of its area( 400 sq. km vs. 890 sq. m.). Heavy metro would uneffective and way too expensive for such a city. LTR or tram would fit much better. moreover, it seems that not a lot of work was done for making this earlier mentioned 3 line scheme. Idea of making 5 stations on track between Stotis and Gedimino is weird! it takes like 20 minutes by foot, and it's historic centre, so digging should be done very carefully(and expensive of course!) and not-digging isn't possible minding the route. Also red line going from Catedra to Pedagoginis Univesitetas is hard to complete since it goes along and under the river.

i much more appreciate this idea with tram for Vlinius:


it should be significantly cheaper and more effective. but minding current financial situation of Vilnius both plans aren't likely to be brought to life in the near future
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Old July 1st, 2014, 05:59 PM   #17
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From Vilnius Metro website, the geodesists start to investigate the soil to figure out in which conditions metro would be built. Link in Lithuanian:

http://www.vilniausmetro.lt/Inzineri...s_perspektyvos

Plus pictures of metro's mock-up, released by metro authority long ago:







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Old July 1st, 2014, 06:00 PM   #18
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Plus how geographically metro would look like:

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Old July 1st, 2014, 10:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
Plus how geographically metro would look like:
It looks as if those areas north of the river have the classic eastern-european layout which is fairly well designed for fast tram-service. Only the mediaeval part of the city should be tunneled. Do some branches on the outer stretches, so the tunnel pays off for high capacity. A typical light-rail like Porto, Hanover etc.

10.000 people/hour is a number I really doubt that some mid-size cities with metro have (Lausanne, Rennes). Lausanne is hilly, Rennes chooses metro as a dense populated city.

Apart from Riga having plans for metro, Tallinn and Vilnius planned to have fast-tramway service back in the 80s, Tallinn partly underground, Vlinius I don´t know. There have been some other soviet cities like Lviv, Barnaul, Saratov etc. having that idea in the 80s.

On the opther hand, Bratislava is of comparable size and any plans for metro have been shelved. Although they now want to build the long-wished rail to Petrzalka, there are no talks of underground trams. Same for Brno, no trams to go underground.

Kind regards
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 04:04 PM   #20
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in accordance with recent research hold in vilnius bus rapid system would fit the best, especially if you think about the money matter

the biggest possible demand was calculated to not exceed 3.500 people/hour on the most popular route, which is not significant for metro system

resourse in russian
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