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Old October 13th, 2014, 01:11 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megaroad1 View Post
The CRH380D looks almost identical to the Zefiro. Can the Chinese really offer that train when it's a co-production with Bombardier? Aren't there some tehchnology license issues there?

The deadline is the day after tomorrow. We've heard little from the Siemens and the CAF bids. I hope that it's just a case of keeping their cards close to their vests and not that they're not thinking of delivering a proposal. I want a competitive adjudication process.
LOL,CRH380D is the train that made in bombardier's China factory,and it has no technology transfer.and it is the same train with zefiro380.
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Old October 13th, 2014, 01:19 PM   #402
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The reason why Bombardier release Zefiro 380 is to meet the demand of China Ministry of Railways in 2009.CRH380D is Chinese name.
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Old October 13th, 2014, 04:11 PM   #403
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CRH380D is the original Zefiro 380 only manufactured in China, like a japanese car manufactured in Mexico thats all.

If Bombardier CSR Sifang joins the CRCC consortium, legally there is not a problem, no license issues at all and eventually the trainset could be manufactured by Bombardier Mexico although not 100%, maybe only some components, like we do with planes so far.

If Bombardier Mexico had presented a bid with the Zefiro 380 and had won, surely they had bring the Zefiro 380 from China factory.

In China today many originals of everything are made, not only the copies.
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Old October 13th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by Donegal View Post
I'm kinda skeptical about the chinese proposal. I mean, cheaper is not always better.
About the civil works CRCC is the most competitive in the world and experienced, only OHL from Spain have the same capacity.

About the rolling stock the best options in order of quality in my opinion are:

1.- CRH380D
2.- CRH380C

if they bid one of those, the quality for the money is very competitive and convenient.





those are the HST that match with the requirements and without legal issues, unless chinese had already developed an unknown model, that in any case would have not been even in testing phase.
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Old October 13th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #405
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If CAF bids the only train that can offer us is this:



brand new, just out from the testing phase.
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Old October 13th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #406
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latest information signaling a consortium led by SIEMENS, ICA and FCCCO to make a bid.

while im glad that SIEMENS participate since probably is the best option about rolling stock, the mexicans ICA and FCCCO have built 0km of High Speed Line ever, so in the aspect of civil works is the weakest consortium.

the spanish one with CAF, Indra and OHL is more equilibrated, while the chinese have the best cost and competitive builder but not quite good rolling stock.

at this point the civil work is the most important aspect, since is the 1st line ever made here and there is no experience in Mexico, plus... time = costs.

civil works are over the model of the train in importance, if not remember Metro Line 12.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 02:05 AM   #407
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I cannot wait to see Mexico's train in action....

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Old October 14th, 2014, 10:16 AM   #408
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BREAKING NEWS

Quote:
"The CRH380A model, capable of a speed of 400 km/h, is the considered by the company for the Mexican bid. Although develops that speed, its commercial operation is between 250km/h and 300km/h."

Zhenyi Hu, Vice president of China Railways Construction Corporation

Link




Structure: Aluminum
Max speed: 380km/h
Seats: 494
Total power on wheels: 9.600 kW
Total length of the train: 203m
Width: 3.380m
Height: 3.700m
Track gauge 1.435m
Built by CSR
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Last edited by elekto; October 14th, 2014 at 10:31 AM.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 12:00 PM   #409
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Nobody knows what it costs CRH380C, only built CRH380CL with 16 cars; the CRH380D itself: 20,51 M €. The CRH380A with technology discussed by Kawasaki: 19,65/18,59 M €. The CRH3C (Siemens Velaro CN): 22,7/20,5 M €.
The important will be: contracts manufactured locally, maintenance, and transfer of technology.
.............................
Nadie sabe lo que cuesta el CRH380C, solo hay CRH380CL de 16 coches; el CRH380D sí: 20,51 M €. El CRH380A con tecnología discutida por Kawasaki: 19,65/18,59 M €. El CRH3C (Siemens Velaro CN): 22,7/20,5 M €.
Lo decisorio serán los contratos de fabricación local, mantenimiento y transferencia de tecnología.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 12:16 PM   #410
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Wow. The 380A. I didn’t expect that they’d bring something that fast for their Mexico bid. The Chinese are going all in on this one. I wonder how it will look in red, white and green, LOL.

I’m surprised that Siemens didn’t bring another company to help with the construction/civil works. Maybe ICA is very confident that they can pull this off?

The Spanish bid looks sound.

I think at the end of the day, the fact that China is working with Mexico on that huge common infrastructure fund to finance rail projects is going to weigh on the final decision, though. Maybe that’s why Alstom and Bombardier pulled out?
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Old October 14th, 2014, 05:03 PM   #411
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lol red with the strip in green.

the best train at the best cost, as you say the chinese really want to win this project.












The model for Hong Kong





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Old October 14th, 2014, 05:06 PM   #412
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It's gonne be interesting watching the legal wrangling around that one, as Kawasaki is definitely going to seek a court order of some kind to stop that selling.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 05:51 PM   #413
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I've read enough about this thanks to Gusiluz links, and the true is that there is nothing illegal on it, Kawasaki as well as many other companies signed weak and ambiguous technology transfer contracts, so the chinese took the best and developed further. Maybe it was unloyal or opportunist, but not illegal certainly. Alstom decided not to enter China, Bombardier and Siemens are ok, after all they provide the huge chinese market, so seems only another chapter of the japanese-chinese misunderstandings and antagonism, but no more.

Prince Akishino came few days ago to Mexico to do business and surely he adverted president Peña about this, but the prince went happy and confident, so Im sure they reached a good agreement on this.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 07:11 AM   #414
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I have just finished reading the article. So HR380A?
Looks nice. Even so, I'd rather siemens wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elekto View Post
Prince Akishino came few days ago to Mexico to do business and surely he adverted president Peña about this, but the prince went happy and confident, so Im sure they reached a good agreement on this.
So, does that mean that it is possible to have a japanese proposal? There's any chance to consider a shinkansen for this route? It really would be fantastic.
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Last edited by Donegal; October 15th, 2014 at 07:32 AM.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 07:28 AM   #415
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Old October 15th, 2014, 07:50 AM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donegal View Post
So, does that mean that it is possible to have a japanese proposal? There's any chance to consider a shinkansen for this route? It really would be fantastic.
No, that means there won't be problems buying the CRH380A.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 07:55 AM   #417
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LOL, I knew I shouldn't be excited yet
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Old October 15th, 2014, 08:13 AM   #418
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Info:

Quote:
Today is the presentation of bids, the winner will be declared on November 3rd.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 05:31 PM   #419
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BREAKING NEWS



Quote:
CRCC, GIA group, Prodemex and TEYA conforms the ONLY consortium presenting its bid today.

Quote:
CAF desisted because the Oaris is not yet homologated.

Link
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Old October 15th, 2014, 06:06 PM   #420
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Quote:
Prince Akishino came few days ago to Mexico to do business
If it was business, it was surely private. Members of the imperial family are not involved in diplomatic or business dealings of a transnational nature as their role is purely symbolic. It may actually be prohibited by Japanese law.
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