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Old February 3rd, 2015, 10:47 PM   #701
billfranklin
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What Mexico needs to do, IMO, is to get right of way NOW. Get the straightest, and, least curved right of way to start. Perhaps 4 tracks wide or more. Before putting in the HSR, put in a good, fast conventional rail line with road crossings. Put in 4 track stations while leaving room for an additional 2 tracks for HSR use. Then, concentrate on getting progressively higher average speeds. Don't try to impress the world, just yet. Just make something that works very well.

This is something not being done in the US, but, the US passenger rail industry is NOT the one to copy. Look instead at Japan, France, Germany, and, Italy.

Start simply, and, build Mexico's own passenger train manufacturing industry, while doing it.
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Old February 4th, 2015, 05:50 PM   #702
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The Mexico-Queretaro route is very feasible for a train over 200km/h, all the studies confirm it and the cost is reliable if we take in consideration that the enlargement of the highway is even more expensive than the HSR with a higher environmental impact.

The project was not cancelled because of technical or economical unfeasibility, it was cancelled because of stupid political priorities and peculiar circumstances of the mexican midterm elections this year.

That is why it should have never being deferred last year, because with this, they only gave opportunity to more ignorant voices to develop every kind of arguments against the convenience of this infrastructure.

The enlargement of the Mexico-Queretaro highway to 8 tracks has an estimated cost of U$4 billions, about a third more than the HSR.

Any train running under 200km/h is not competitive nor with foreign bus service, nor with low cost airlines.

In this respect a High Speed Train under 250km/h is feasible too and remember that the rights of way are acquired 100% by now.

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Old February 6th, 2015, 03:49 AM   #703
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It was the correct decision to cancel this project. The cost is absurd for the tiny ridership it was projected to have. The money would be much better spent expanding urban rail within the Valley of Mexico which would have much higher ridership, increase public transit usage and help reduce the incredible amount of congestion in the metropolitan area.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 05:22 PM   #704
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Some people seems not to understand that the Mexico-Queretaro High Speed Rail is only the 1st stage of a larger network which will connect Mexico City with other big metropolises like Leon and Guadalajara demanding way more ridership.

If you dont take the first step now, when?

It was a stupid decision to cancell this train, specially because of the extremely affordable conditions that the chinese were giving us.

Mexicans are not famous for seizing huge opportunities when they appear (Mexico vs Netherlands).

And Mexico CAN afford urban railway systems and 1 line of HSR, the problem is politics and the convenience of some people of induce to the failure of their fellows.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 12:09 AM   #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elekto View Post
Some people seems not to understand that the Mexico-Queretaro High Speed Rail is only the 1st stage of a larger network which will connect Mexico City with other big metropolises like Leon and Guadalajara demanding way more ridership.

If you dont take the first step now, when?

It was an stupid decision to cancell this train, specially because of the extremely affordable conditions that the chinese were giving us.

Mexicans are not famous for seizing huge opportunities when they appear (Mexico vs Netherlands).

And Mexico CAN afford urban railway systems and 1 line of HSR, the problem is politics and the convenience of some people of induce to the failure of their fellows.
#sierapenal
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Old February 7th, 2015, 05:00 PM   #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elekto View Post
Any train running under 200km/h is not competitive nor with foreign bus service, nor with low cost airlines.
Wow, Mexico must have really fast buses. Seriously though, trains in the UK all travel under 200 km/h and have no trouble competing with buses, even though the latter are cheaper. At a speed of 200, a train is quite fast, especially as it does not have to deal with traffic, if terminal stations are in city centres. HSR is better, of course, but both more expensive to build and more expensive to operate.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 05:41 PM   #707
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Wow, Mexico must have really fast buses. Seriously though, trains in the UK all travel under 200 km/h and have no trouble competing with buses, even though the latter are cheaper. At a speed of 200, a train is quite fast, especially as it does not have to deal with traffic, if terminal stations are in city centres. HSR is better, of course, but both more expensive to build and more expensive to operate.
In this specific route buses are not as cheap and the Mexico Queretaro highway is congestioned, is not a matter of demand but a matter of congestion and reduce accident in this specific route.

Nobody is talking about the whole Mexico, we are talking about the Mexico Queretaro highway specifically. It is ridiculous to belive that in a country the size and with the orography of Mexico a slow train can compete with highways.

If that was the case, we would have plenty of rail passenger networks working right now.

Last edited by elekto; February 7th, 2015 at 05:48 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 06:18 PM   #708
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Depends what you mean by "slow train". A train with top speed of 200 km/h and a journey speed of let's say 120 km/h can do the distance between the center of DF and Queretaro in around 110 min. That's definitely faster than buses, cars and airplanes. A trip to Leon that would take let's say 220 min would also be pretty competitive, at least to cars and buses, not to mention the extra comfort that the train offers.

For distances up to 350 km, HSR is a "nice to have", not essential. Most countries in Europe have very successfull lines in those distances without them being up to HSR standards (or with only part sof them being HSR). Clean, comfortable, on-time, trains works just as well as HSR in those distances.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 06:25 PM   #709
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The objective has been always to serve Guadalajara, around 600km away from Mexico City. A network with trains running under 200km/h and with several stations in between is not competitive to connect Mexico City and Guadalajara. Queretaro is only the 1st stage, not the definitive line.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 08:06 PM   #710
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Ok, I don't know Mexico well but from what I understood whille reading this thread was the main role of this project was to relieve highway traffic. A 200 km-h train is perfectly competitive to cars, even for the Guadalajara-DF line. In Greece for example, trains currently do the distance between Athens and Thessaloniki (very similar distance to DF-Guadalajara) in 5+ hours and they still manages to have 30% of passenger trips (yes, there are buses and cheap flights too). In Sweden, the 200 km/h train between Stockholm and Gothenburg (again, quite similar distance) that does the trip in around 3 hours has an even higher share.

Mexico is not like California, where there is not much between LA and the Bay area. Leon and Queretaro are quite big metropolitan areas that would be worth to connect, even if Guadalajara didn't exist. The question is, if connecting them "now" with a 200 km/h line is feasible, would it be better not to do it and wait for the time to come when HSR would be feasible? Or would it be better to make a 200 km/h line now and improve it in the future? Maybe make the part to Queretaro 200 km/h and then make the rest HSR)

I'm not saying I have the answer, just that between HSR and no rail there are many options that also offer benefits and drawbacks.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 09:02 PM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
It was the correct decision to cancel this project. The cost is absurd for the tiny ridership it was projected to have. The money would be much better spent expanding urban rail within the Valley of Mexico which would have much higher ridership, increase public transit usage and help reduce the incredible amount of congestion in the metropolitan area.
Yeah, of course, let's keep the invest over the Valley of Mexico, over the metropolitan area of Mexico City, instead make new investments in the country. Like if Mexico City were the whole Mexico.
The cancellation of this project only delays a truly abandoned sector over the mexican railways .
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Old February 7th, 2015, 10:32 PM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elekto View Post
talking about the whole Mexico, we are talking about the Mexico Queretaro highway specifically. It is ridiculous to belive that in a country the size and with the orography of Mexico a slow train can compete with highways.

If that was the case, we would have plenty of rail passenger networks working right now.
It depends on what you mean by slow. Anyway, my point still stands: no country (except oil-rich Saudi Arabia) has managed to create or credibly start a single HSR line without having a more or less functioning rail network in place before. Simply said, HSR is considerably more expensive than normal tracks and difficult to push through in places with no culture of passenger rail transport. I see the same thing with Brazil, where they are bickering over an HSR between Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, though an upgrade of the existing line plus a diversion of freight traffic could see trains linking the two cities in 4 hours, which is not that great when competing with airplanes, but would still ensure good ridership at minimum costs, given the size of the two cities.

Actually, this is a disease of my country too (Romania). Many transport ministers have flaunted the HSR card while the pre-existing infrastructure was allowed to crumble. Neighbouring Ukraine just slapped some superficial repairs on their network, and their trains are significantly faster than our own (currently). HSR is good and all, but in countries with no tradition of keeping a functional rail system they often mean "I´m a gonna flaunt this flashy project to the plebes, maybe I can get some votes" and just that. Dust in the eyes. So, I believe that by 2025, while Mexicans and Brazilians will be boarding a bus to travel to neighbouring cities, people in Argentina or even Kenya will be able to chose between bus, cars and trains for at least some routes.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 06:22 AM   #713
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I think that in 2-4 years the queretaro-mexico high speed rail plan will no longer be suspended and bidding willing continue. I have a feeling that is how things are going to happen. It's because of the weak peso and falling oil prices that affected this plan of high speed rail. Mexico is better off waiting anyways. I have hope.
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Old February 17th, 2015, 07:12 AM   #714
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I think that in 2-4 years the queretaro-mexico high speed rail plan will no longer be suspended and bidding willing continue.
lol.

In all seriousness, I hope that doesn't happen and that the money is instead spent on expanding inter- and suburban rail in the DF and Edomex.
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Old May 22nd, 2015, 03:46 PM   #715
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=523

Mexico compensates China for cancelled HS project
Friday, May 22, 2015



MEXICO's Federal Secretariat of Communications and Transport (SCT) has agreed to pay $US 1.3m in damages to China Railway Construction Corporation (CRCC) for costs incurred in bidding for the cancelled Mexico City – Queretaro high-speed line

On November 3 SCT announced that it had awarded a $US 3.75bn turnkey contract to design, build, operate and maintain the country's first high-speed line to a consortium of CRCC and it Mexican partners, which was the only bidder for the project. However, just three days later the president of Mexico Mr Enrique Pena Nieto announced that the contract had been annulled amid concern over a lack of transparency in the bidding process

...
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Old July 1st, 2015, 05:40 PM   #716
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ok, circumstances are improving, economy improving so this project shows signs of life after all.

Quote:
info:

SCT secretary Gerardo Ruiz announced that in order to advance in this project, works for the extention of the suburban train from Buenavista to Huehuetoca will be developed. This works are fundamental for the MQ High Speed Rail can be built further.

HST will share the rails of the actual suburban train for about 27km only, with non stop at any station.

This is the section that will be built.

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Old July 2nd, 2015, 02:25 AM   #717
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ok, circumstances are improving, economy improving so this project shows signs of life after all.
How many stations will be built? Just Huehuetoca?
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Old July 3rd, 2015, 09:53 AM   #718
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Wait...what???
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