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Old August 14th, 2014, 04:31 PM   #61
00Zy99
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Prague is in Europe.

Europe is not part of the US (last I checked).

And I'm comparing to bus ridership and overall population levels.

Comparing to subway systems (especially those in Europe) isn't really fair-heavy rail is for the ULTRA-heavy corridors.
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Old August 14th, 2014, 06:16 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
The vast majority of light rail/streetcar systems in the US have massive traffic flows.

And if the LA Orange line is such a good example, why are they currently studying converting it to LRT?
The Orange Line in LA exceeded its expectations..... Fast!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redspork02 View Post
MTA approves study to convert Metro Orange Line to light rail

http://www.dailynews.com/general-new...-to-light-rail


The MTA has given the go-ahead on a study about converting the Metro Orange Line busway to a light-rail line. Just-signed state legislation lifted a 23-year-ban on non-subway transit construction. (2013 file photo by Hans Gutknecht/Los Angeles Daily News)

By Rick Orlov, Los Angeles Daily News
07/24/2014

Calling the San Fernando Valley one of the most underserved areas in the county for public transit, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority board on Thursday authorized a study on changing the Orange Line busway into a light-rail system.

“One of five county residents lives in the San Fernando Valley, and yet of the 80 rail stations in the system, only two are in the Valley,” said Councilman Paul Krekorian, who serves on the Metro board.

“It is clear today that the Valley has not benefited to the degree of other areas. At the same time, the Orange Line has been a phenomenal success, putting to rest the unfair stereotype that Valley residents will not get out of their cars.”



Krekorian *— with support from Supervisors Michael Antonovich and Zev Yaroslavsky, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, who is the chairman, and other board members — won unanimous passage of his proposal to have the Metro staff report back on what would be involved in costs, construction and timing of changing the Orange Line to a light-rail system.
“I think we should have this dialogue,” Krekorian said. “I believe we can’t delay any further to meet the underserved needs of the San Fernando Valley.”

The study is possible due to recent state legislation signed by Gov. Jerry Brown and authored by Assemblyman Adrin Nazarian, D-Sherman Oaks, that lifts the 23-year ban on any transit construction unless it is for a subway.



Councilman Bob Blumenfield, who represents the Warner Center area, said the transit improvements are badly needed.

“My perspective is from the West Valley that is growing by leaps and bounds,” Blumenfield said. “We just signed the new Warner Center specific plan that will bring in 30,000 new jobs. All of this is being built as transit-oriented development, yet our only transit system is the Orange Line. It is imperative we look at increasing its capacity.

“It can make a tremendous difference on the entire city. This is about feeding the economic engine of the West Valley.”


The proposal also drew support from a variety of speakers.

Stuart Waldman, president of VICA, said the project would be an initial investment in other Valley-wide transit improvements.

“In some ways, the Orange Line has been a victim of its own success,” Waldman said. “It suffers from overcrowding, and the only way to get more people off the 101 Freeway is with a light rail system.”
Plans to be studied would convert the 18 miles of the Orange Line system from Chatsworth to North Hollywood into light rail, with a goal of eventually linking it to other rail systems in the county.



In related actions, the board Thursday approved its 10-year Short-Range Transportation Plan, which lays out specific steps toward reaching the goals of 2009’s 30-year vision for fielding growth and traffic issues in the county.

Members also recommended awarding a $1.6 billion contract to construct the Westside subway to the joint venture of Skanska-Traylor-Shea, despite indications of protests against the deal.

One of the firms competing for the contract, Dragados, said it submitted the lowest bid but that MTA officials chose to ignore that with its recommendation. The contract will not be executed until any protests are resolved.
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Old August 15th, 2014, 04:59 AM   #63
whatsuplucas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanar View Post
Yeah, really ?
So, take the example of Prague. Tch rep.
The streetcart/LRT system of this city (less than 2 000 000 inhabitants) is +or- 150 km long, 21 routes and carries 350 000 000 passengers/year.
More, there is a subway (59 km) wich takes more than 500 000 000 passengers/year.

THAT is massive flow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Prague is in Europe.

Europe is not part of the US (last I checked).

And I'm comparing to bus ridership and overall population levels.

Comparing to subway systems (especially those in Europe) isn't really fair-heavy rail is for the ULTRA-heavy corridors.
Also, people in the Czech Republic (and Europe as a whole) use public transportation way more often than Americans do. You really can't compare Prague to any city in the USA.
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Old August 15th, 2014, 06:54 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klausenburg View Post

United States of America:

New Orleans
Boston
Cleveland
Newark
Philadelphia
Pittsburg
San Francisco
Portland
Seattle
Salt Lake City
Memphis
Galveston
Dallas
Kenosha
Tampa
Little Rock
Tucson
Cincinatti
Washington DC
Atlanta
Tacoma
Baltimore
Buffalo
Minneapolis
Phoenix
Sacramento
St. Louis
San Diego
St. Jose
Kansas City (U/C)
Charlatte (U/C)
Whoa, the US is on fire!
Thanks to progressive POTUS?
Do you guys think if the GOP take back the WH in 2016, some of these projects would be cancelled?
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Old August 15th, 2014, 08:21 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'm far more likely to make a trip if I can get there by subway or streetcar. If a bus is the only option, I rarely make the trip.
Me too. Bus is a distant fourth choice for me.
1)Bike
2)Subway
3)Streetcar
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
4)Bus
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Old August 15th, 2014, 10:28 AM   #66
isaidso
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Mine would be

1. Walk
2. Subway
3. Car
4. Streetcar
5. Bike






6. Bus
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Old August 15th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainvan View Post
Whoa, the US is on fire!
Thanks to progressive POTUS?
Do you guys think if the GOP take back the WH in 2016, some of these projects would be cancelled?
Not for LA, funds are coming from a self tax, Measure R approved by LA county voters. They do receive federal funds to help out, it would most likely just slow down the Fed Funds/matching funds for construction phases.
besides congress controls the purse: meaning the GOP house also had to approved transit funds....Its a give and take politics...nothing will change (drastically).

I guess all cities are different, so...yes and no....

BTW...listed for LA is the LRT/subway....but not the "streetcar" proposition currently being planned for Broadway area of DT LA or the streetcar proposed in Fairfax district.



Skyscrapercity Link:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1222835
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Old August 23rd, 2014, 11:12 PM   #68
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From Rail Journal, news from Waterloo, Ontario:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Construction begins on Waterloo light rail
Friday, August 22, 2014



A GROUNDBREAKING ceremony was held on August 21 to mark the official start of construction on the first light rail line in Waterloo, Ontario.

The ceremony was attended by Mr Peter Braid, Canadian member of parliament for Kitchener-Waterloo and parliamentary secretary for infrastructure, and took place at the site of the line's operations, maintenance and storage facility on Dutton Drive, Waterloo

...
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Old August 24th, 2014, 02:01 AM   #69
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I would do
1Subway
2Walk
3LightRail
4Streetcar
5bike
6car
7bus
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Old August 24th, 2014, 02:15 AM   #70
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And city planners wonder why bustitution never works
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Old August 31st, 2014, 11:38 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsuplucas View Post
Also, people in the Czech Republic (and Europe as a whole) use public transportation way more often than Americans do. You really can't compare Prague to any city in the USA.
I just say that US public transportation flow are not massive, they are just (excepting NYC) ridiculous. Even not comparing, in the absolute.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 06:02 PM   #72
whatsuplucas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanar View Post
I just say that US public transportation flow are not massive, they are just (excepting NYC) ridiculous. Even not comparing, in the absolute.
They are not massive because most Americans think public transportation is communism and that (communism) shouldn't exist. You don't need to offer a huge amount of service if there isn't demand for that. Most Americans prefer to drive their cars.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 07:26 PM   #73
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Even the difference between Canada and the US is pretty stark when it comes to public transit.

TheUS generally has this image that public transit is "dirty" and for poor people, and combo that with their extremely suburban nature that is really unfriendly to public transit and you get really low use.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 09:29 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Even the difference between Canada and the US is pretty stark when it comes to public transit.

TheUS generally has this image that public transit is "dirty" and for poor people, and combo that with their extremely suburban nature that is really unfriendly to public transit and you get really low use.
Thankfully that notion is fading, especially with younger people.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 03:05 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Thankfully that notion is fading, especially with younger people.
I think that's true for pretty much anywhere. Here in Brazil, older people usually have the same mindset as the average American, but younger people have been choosing bikes/buses/subway instead of cars.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 06:22 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
And city planners wonder why bustitution never works
The hostility toward buses among light rail enthusiasts is incredible short-sighted. Most rail transit systems rely on buses to feed passengers into the rail system.

When I visit a city that is new to me, I often go out of my way to ride rail transit lines. I've never gone out of my way to ride a bus line. I fully recognize that rail lines are more interesting to ride, but the cost of building them is so high that there is no way we could expect cities to build only rail lines.

The following graphic from the Transport Politic website < http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...nned-for-2014/ > illustrates the relative cost of new transit lines planned and under construction in the United States.



For Bus Rapid Transit, there are 32 projects with a total length of 257 route miles under construction at a cost of ~$2.5 billion. For streetcars, there are 16 projects with a total route length of 41 miles under construction for ~$2 billion.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 06:25 PM   #77
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One of the claims that is made to justify the cost of rail transit lines is that they generate economic investment, but there are those who say that a well-designed Bus Rapid Transit line can be equally successful at generating economic investment.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcma...nd-streetcars/

9/15/2013 @ 9:00AM
Bus Rapid Transit Spurs Development Better Than Light Rail Or Streetcars: Study

Bus rapid transit, in which buses in dedicated lanes perform like rail lines, can not only spur development, but can do so far more efficiently than light rail and streetcars, according to a study due out later this month from the Institute for Transportation and Development Policy.

“Both BRT and LRT can leverage many times more development investment than they cost. Now we can say that for sure,” according to the institute’s director for the U.S. and Africa, Annie Weinstock, who previewed the findings at a Metropolitan Planning Council Roundtable in Chicago last week.

“Per dollar of transit investment, and under similar conditions, BRT can leverage more (development) investment than LRT or streetcars.”

For example, Cleveland’s Healthline, a BRT project completed on Cleveland’s Euclid Avenue in 2008, has generated $5.8 billion in development —$114 for each transit dollar invested. Portland’s Blue Line, a light rail project completed in 1986, generated $3.74 per dollar invested.

BRT’s efficiency makes sense—bus rapid transit lines are generally cheaper to develop than rail lines (though some transportation experts balk at the comparison)—but the difference has never before been documented, Weinstock said.

“The first conclusion we’re able to draw here is that actually BRT is able to leverage development. This is the first time we have an analysis to say that definitively,” she said.

“And it can leverage a lot of development. Three of the corridors (studied) leveraged more than a billion dollars in development.”

BRT buses run in dedicated lanes, and stop at stations where riders pay before boarding the bus. Buses running on BRT lines may also receive traffic signal priority to speed them along. Though many projects in the United States have been described as BRT, many have only one or two features of BRT, and really are only enhanced bus lines, Weinstock said.

The U.S. has seven authentic BRT lines in Cleveland, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Eugene Ore., and several in Pittsburgh. None achieve the internationally recognized “gold standard” of BRT like Bogota’s TransMilenio line. But one planned for Chicago’s Ashland Avenue might.

“There’s no gold standard BRT in the U.S. yet,” Weinstock said, “but if we continue with the Ashland project on the current trajectory, Ashland could be the first gold in the U.S.”

Jeff Schreiber from the Chicago Department of Transportation asked Schreiber what share of the development documented in the report can be said to have occurred because of BRT or LRT.

“I don’t think we are attributing the development 100 percent to the transit investment,” she said. “It’s part of the package of all of the importance given to the corridor. It’s possible that in a really strong corridor with a lot of goverment support and no transit you might get a lot of development. Probably if you add in transit you would do even better. But importantly in those situations you still need transit in order to create that kind of dense urban environment.”

The institute’s report is scheduled to be available Sept. 27.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 08:54 PM   #78
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Yes But the Key Word in that is SPURS. NOT sustains!
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Old September 1st, 2014, 10:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainvan View Post
Whoa, the US is on fire!
Thanks to progressive POTUS?
Do you guys think if the GOP take back the WH in 2016, some of these projects would be cancelled?
The Federal Government does not really have much effect on public transit other than granting federal funding, it is up to local jurisdictions (ie city/state government) to design and fund any proposed transit system. Plenty of light rail lines were built under the GWB administration for example.

Granted there have been a few cases where Republican GOP representatives derailed or tried to derail funding for light rail (ie Tom Delay/John Cornyn/John Culberson) but there were also a few cases where a GOP Senator and representative (Kay Bailey Hutchison/Ted poe) supported light rail expansion so it isn't exactly clear cut by political party.

Last edited by diablo234; September 1st, 2014 at 10:43 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 11:06 PM   #80
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Hah they are all from Texas
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