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Old September 25th, 2014, 03:43 PM   #101
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The "passenger boarding stations" probably means heavier infrastructure at stops and not stopping to board and let off between designated stops.
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Old October 1st, 2014, 04:09 PM   #102
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Light rail map for Waterloo, from urbanrail.net:

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Old December 31st, 2014, 09:11 AM   #103
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New streetcar was opened on Saturday in Atlanta, map from urbanrail.net:
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/lo...gers/21035545/

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Old December 31st, 2014, 12:23 PM   #104
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The last two posts show two systems which are quite different. The ION lightrail connects apparently two malls, via the urban center, with a hospital and a university as well as an intermodal transit hub along the way. Loops are kept to the absolute minimum, in fact there are only one to two stations where the loop has a significant functional impact (in regards to station location).

The Atlanta system might be only a starter loop but I have mixed feelings about it. I seriously believe that such one way loop systems are quite bad and not very attractive. Sometimes they can't be evaded but they should be kept to an absolute minimum. What saves the tram from being a pure tourist attraction is the interconnection with MARTA. But also there it is simply very counterintuitive to be forced to take 3 stops in the wrong direction before getting eastwards. This also costs a lot of time making it possibly slower than merely walking. Why are so many US cities so much opposed to 2 way tracks? Its not like their streets would be too narrow or anything. I have to admit that I don't get it. Hopefully the Atlanta streetcar is going to get extended on both ends, with a connection to the other Marta line as well.
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Old January 1st, 2015, 03:37 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The last two posts show two systems which are quite different. The ION lightrail connects apparently two malls, via the urban center, with a hospital and a university as well as an intermodal transit hub along the way. Loops are kept to the absolute minimum, in fact there are only one to two stations where the loop has a significant functional impact (in regards to station location).

The Atlanta system might be only a starter loop but I have mixed feelings about it. I seriously believe that such one way loop systems are quite bad and not very attractive. Sometimes they can't be evaded but they should be kept to an absolute minimum. What saves the tram from being a pure tourist attraction is the interconnection with MARTA. But also there it is simply very counterintuitive to be forced to take 3 stops in the wrong direction before getting eastwards. This also costs a lot of time making it possibly slower than merely walking. Why are so many US cities so much opposed to 2 way tracks? Its not like their streets would be too narrow or anything. I have to admit that I don't get it. Hopefully the Atlanta streetcar is going to get extended on both ends, with a connection to the other Marta line as well.
I Am not 100% sure about Atlanta, but I know that in a lot of Downtown, roads that are not very wide tend to be one way (such as here in Richmond). I would imagine that it is easy just to have the streetcars travel in the already designated direction. Anyway, I have to agree that I personally don't like it too. Also, there are plans to extend the route in 5-10 years or so.
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Old January 1st, 2015, 12:00 PM   #106
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On Google street view it looks like most of it is broad enough to fit 3-4 road lanes. And even the one way single track seems to be mixed traffic with car. Why wouldn't it be possible to have both tracks in the same road then? I can't believe it is really about space limitations. Could it be that they are trying to maximize the area that is directly next to some track by having two single tracks? That would be very short sighted in my eyes. If thats not the reason, what else?

But ok, if they want a loop, so what, what I think is the real functional disaster is that the main transfer hub to MARTA is a one way stop as well. This will cause some major headache especially when the line is to be expanded westwards.
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Old January 1st, 2015, 03:48 PM   #107
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It's interesting that Atlanta is using light rail vehicles (Siemens S70) for its streetcar line rather than the Skoda/United Streetcar vehicles used on other new streetcar lines in the United States. The following is a comparison between a United Streetcar vehicle and a Siemens S70 built for San Diego.

Length
United Streetcar: 66 ft
Siemens S70: 90.7 ft

Width
United Streetcar: 8 ft
Siemens S70: 8.7 ft

Weight
United Streetcar: 70,989 lbs
Siemens S70: 95,700 lbs

Turning Radius
United Streetcar: 53 ft (yard), 59 ft (service)
Siemens S70: 82 ft

Maximum Speed
United Streetcar: 44 mph
Siemens S70: 55 mph (service), 71.5 mph (allowable)
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Old January 1st, 2015, 06:14 PM   #108
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Carrying capacity?
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Old January 1st, 2015, 06:34 PM   #109
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Finding consistent numbers for capacity is problematic. United Streetcar claims a capacity of 157 and Siemens claims a capacity of 221, but who knows if they are using the similar assumptions regarding area per standing passenger. The number of passenger seats can be used as a parameter for comparison, but different transit agencies might add or subtract seats to accommodate bicycles or more standing passengers.

Passenger Seats
United Streetcar: 29
Siemens S70: 64
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Old January 1st, 2015, 07:24 PM   #110
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Aren't those the same type that they use in Norfolk?
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Old January 1st, 2015, 10:18 PM   #111
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Has anyone here noticed that outside of cities where streetcars have already worked that there is so much of a backlash against them. I constantly see top comments complaining about how "there's a reason why we got rid of streetcars in 1950 (then something about how they got in the way of cars)" or "we might as well reintroduce horses and buggys ". Honestly, it's such as shame to see how well they work in places like Portland, or Europe, and then to have all of these people who for the most part only care about the short term cost, let alone long term benefits of a more walkable city center with less "dead space" devoted to parking lots, etc, as well as one which is actually built for people, and not for cars. Does anyone else have anything to say, or have noticed these types of comments (especially pertaining to the DC, and Milwaukee projects)?
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 03:01 AM   #112
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Well I can sort of see why people think their money isn't being spent well when most new streetcar systems share tracks with other traffic, have to stop for traffic lights every 200 meters and come in loop systems where sometimes the stops aren't placed evenly on both sides. For people to like public transit it has to be quick and efficient. But now you end up with a bus on rails in stead of with a BRT on rails, which is wat every new system outside of the USA is these days. I don't know any place where they're as actively are putting trains among cars. But to solve that problem you would actually have to -gasp- take away lanes for cars. The horror, I know.
But yeah I agree the comments like "it can't work here, this isn't <insert progressive city>" are bullshit. Every city can make it work. You just need to figure out what else to do besides actually putting in a line. Like making sure density along the corridor will be encouraged, frequency is OK (every 15 mins. is basically a minimum you should strive for) and have a long term plan with measures to make the system successful.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 05:59 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
It's interesting that Atlanta is using light rail vehicles (Siemens S70) for its streetcar line rather than the Skoda/United Streetcar vehicles used on other new streetcar lines in the United States. The following is a comparison between a United Streetcar vehicle and a Siemens S70 built for San Diego.

Length
United Streetcar: 66 ft
Siemens S70: 90.7 ft

Width
United Streetcar: 8 ft
Siemens S70: 8.7 ft

Weight
United Streetcar: 70,989 lbs
Siemens S70: 95,700 lbs

Turning Radius
United Streetcar: 53 ft (yard), 59 ft (service)
Siemens S70: 82 ft

Maximum Speed
United Streetcar: 44 mph
Siemens S70: 55 mph (service), 71.5 mph (allowable)
The S70 is a popular choice for new lines from what I understand. Isn't Kansas City, Cincinnati, and Salt Lake City all using that model too? I know here in KC they said that they chose a model that would be a "streetcar" in the urban core on streets but could turn into "light rail" on extensions away from downtown that could reach higher speeds.


BTW: here in KC they have laid about 50% of the rails now for the starter line. should be fully operational by the end of this year.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 06:07 AM   #114
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KC and Cincy will use the CAF Urbos 3.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:48 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
It's interesting that Atlanta is using light rail vehicles (Siemens S70) for its streetcar line rather than the Skoda/United Streetcar vehicles used on other new streetcar lines in the United States.
IMHO, the entire LRT vs streetcar thing is just a dumb political term manipulation, even if was invented with good intention of selling modern tram systems to American public.
In cities, where old tram systems wasn't closed, but upgraded and extended over period of time, there stretches that can be qualified as LRT, but also some stretches that can be qualified as streetcar.
The same goes for vehicles - some system were upgraded for lager trams, some, for legacy reasons wasn't, but that all called "trams" anyway.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:54 PM   #116
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Then why would cities like Salt Lake City, Portland, and Seattle have streetcar and light rail lines that don't interoperate? There are distinct differences in turning radius and speed between the vehicles used for their streetcar lines and light rail lines.

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Old January 2nd, 2015, 03:00 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
Then why would cities like Salt Lake City, Portland, and Seattle have streetcar and light rail lines that don't interoperate? There are distinct differences in turning radius and speed between the vehicles used for their streetcar lines and light rail lines.
because 'Murica... there's no need for them to be separate systems...
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Old January 26th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
IMHO, the entire LRT vs streetcar thing is just a dumb political term manipulation, even if was invented with good intention of selling modern tram systems to American public.
In cities, where old tram systems wasn't closed, but upgraded and extended over period of time, there stretches that can be qualified as LRT, but also some stretches that can be qualified as streetcar.
The same goes for vehicles - some system were upgraded for lager trams, some, for legacy reasons wasn't, but that all called "trams" anyway.
Here is a December YouTube post of 16mm filmsshot in 1953-54 of streetcars in Dallas, Cleveland, St. Louis, and Atlantic City and an interurban in Sand Springs, Oklahoma. It shows the same vehicles operating downtown and on residential streets as streetcars and in medians and on private rights of way as near light rail transit in Dallas and St. Louis. I suspect Cleveland had some stretches of open track and Atlantic City had some street running.

This shows American cities once knew how to use streetcars flexibly, but two generations later they have to reinvent the wheel.

http://youtu.be/6Pj2VEdqEHM
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Old January 26th, 2015, 10:45 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarwhite View Post
Here is a December YouTube post of 16mm filmsshot in 1953-54 of streetcars in Dallas, Cleveland, St. Louis, and Atlantic City and an interurban in Sand Springs, Oklahoma. It shows the same vehicles operating downtown and on residential streets as streetcars and in medians and on private rights of way as near light rail transit in Dallas and St. Louis. I suspect Cleveland had some stretches of open track and Atlantic City had some street running.

This shows American cities once knew how to use streetcars flexibly, but two generations later they have to reinvent the wheel.

http://youtu.be/6Pj2VEdqEHM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_an...28Cleveland%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevela...way_%28Ohio%29

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Atlantic_City,_New_Jersey
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Old February 1st, 2015, 05:25 PM   #120
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I know isn't in America but still i just wanted to point how much this way of public transportation gaining success all over the planet even in Africa and frankly i see it as the future for surface transportation that works just fine aside with the subway systems.

Some African Cities with Tramways;

Algeria there are three Tramways in service for some years now, but still there are 17 more tyramway systems under construction in all mid-sized cities over the country .

Also in Morroco there are two in service but there are two more planned to be constructed in big cities
Tunis have One tramway in service the oldest since the 80's

Algiers - ALGERIA







Constantine - ALGERIA








Oran - ALGERIA







image hosted on flickr




image hosted on flickr



Casablanca - MOROCCO





Rebat - MOROCCO







Tunis - TUNISIA





Cairo - Egypt

there are tramways but those are so Old


Thats all Tramway systems I think there is in Africa .. I sincerely hope that it will more generalized to all the country's
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