daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 4th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #141
grimesdr
Registered User
 
grimesdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Likes (Received): 0

Check out this URL
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=131473

Please Note !!!

This is in China and its not an airport or theme park
grimesdr no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 4th, 2008, 04:55 PM   #142
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
BTW, does anyone know how much monorail costs to build compared to HRT or LRT? I'm talking about a quality system of about 75,000-100,000+ passengers per day, not some of these 30,000 ppd systems that are more tourist attractions or are corridors that should probably be serviced by standard rail.

I've seen different numbers all over the place. Las Vegas for example (which falls into the latter category of monorails btw) has numbers between 88 million per mile from monorails.org to 130 million per mile from lightrailnow.org
That's not actually an easy question to answer. Nobody adjusts for the value of the dollar when making those comparisons, who knows whether they're talking about the bond issue or the actual construction cost of the trackway, or including the vehicles, blah blah.

Elevated monorail versus elevated LRT tend to be pretty close to the same construction cost, except that in itself is dependent on how competitive the bidding gets - and there are a lot more bidders willing to go for LRT systems than monorail, at least in the US. Replacement vehicles and maintenance bases are cheaper for LRT.

Then there's the fact that nobody's comparing apples to apples anyway, because there are generally vastly different right of way costs, light rail is sometimes at ground level, then underground, etc etc.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2008, 03:08 AM   #143
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
I know monorails have their fair share of criticisms, but I wonder if people actually know about their potential. Instead of looking at Moscow, Sydney, etc., where they have low capacities and costs per passenger, look at Tokyo, Tama, Osaka, Chongqing, and even Disney where monorails have heavy rail capacities. For transit use, monorails should be built to HRT capacity - something that is rarely done.
Tama Monorail is worthless crap. I've been on it. Worst route ever. I took it one-way, and took an alternate route back to where I came from it was so craptacularly slow. Tama Monorail is very poor on speed, it's like "I can get out and run faster than this" slow. If that's your idea of good standard, you have shockingly poor standards. That thing is also ridiculously expensive for a train trip in general, nevermind for the poor quality of the service offered on the Tama Monorail.

These do not have HRT speeds, nor HRT capacities, what with 2-door cars and all that jazz.
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2008, 03:22 AM   #144
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
Tama Monorail is worthless crap. I've been on it. Worst route ever. I took it one-way, and took an alternate route back to where I came from it was so craptacularly slow. Tama Monorail is very poor on speed, it's like "I can get out and run faster than this" slow. If that's your idea of good standard, you have shockingly poor standards. That thing is also ridiculously expensive for a train trip in general, nevermind for the poor quality of the service offered on the Tama Monorail.

These do not have HRT speeds, nor HRT capacities, what with 2-door cars and all that jazz.
Most of these monorails are crap. It's hard to lengthen trains, switches are massively expensive, ride quality is bumpy, and it's difficult to make modifications.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2008, 10:38 AM   #145
allurban
All Urban
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 4,348
Likes (Received): 6

here is a little bit of info

Quote:
Originally Posted by jserradell View Post
Hell friends,

Can anybody post a Putrajaya Monorail system map, with the name of the stations, please?

It has been impossible for me to obtain this map! Is there an official web?

Thank you very much
There are currently no names for the stations, and the "map" that is available is only a conceptual map...not official

Monorail society page with more info

Image:


Stations will probably be named according to the local districts or landmarks, such as Putrajaya Sentral (formerly western transport terminal), Putrajaya International Convention Centre, Putrajaya Water Sports Centre, Dataran Putra, Ministry of Finance, etc...

Perhaps you can overlay the conceptual map above with a map of putrajaya with districts and landmarks...

Cheers, m
allurban no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #146
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

Regarding the issues of the number of doors and operating speed, the following is a brief comparison:
==========================================================
New York City Subway (IRT Lines) - Bombardier

Length: 51 ft. 4 in.
Width: 8 ft. 9 in.
# Doors per Side: 3
Length per Door: 17 ft.
Maximum Speed: 55 mph
==========================================================
Washington, D.C. Metro - Ansaldobreda

Length: 74 ft. 9 in.
Width: 10 ft. 2 in.
# Doors per Side: 3
Length per Door: 25 ft.
Maximum Speed: 75 mph
==========================================================
Houston/San Diego/Charlotte Light Rail - Siemens S70

Length: 90 ft. 9 in.
Width: 8 ft. 8 in.
# Doors per Side: 4
Length per Door: 23 ft.
Maximum Speed: 56 mph
==========================================================
Portland/Tacoma/Seattle Streetcar - Skoda Astra

Length: 66 ft.
Width: 8 ft.
# Doors per Side: 2.5 (The most common varient has two full doors on both sides of the low-floor middle segment and a half-width door on the driver's right in the high-floor end segments.)
Length per Door: 26 ft.
Maximum Design Speed: 47 mph
Maximum Operating Speed: 31 mph
==========================================================
Monorail Train proposed for Seattle Green Line - Hitachi Standard Type

Length: 107 ft. (Two-car married pair.)
Width: 9 ft. 6 in.
# Doors per Side: 4
Length per Door: 27 ft.
Maximum Operating Speed: 50 mph
==========================================================

Last edited by greg_christine; September 21st, 2008 at 07:38 PM.
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #147
jserradell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 232
Likes (Received): 9

@ allurban:

Thank you very much for the map and the information.

Do you know when the system will open?
jserradell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #148
Songoten2554
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami Florida
Posts: 1,063
Likes (Received): 87

i hear that the Tokyo Monorail is one of the most Profitable Monorail systems in the world but i wonder if this is better then the Disney world claim of the busiest monorail system in the world??
Songoten2554 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2008, 06:17 AM   #149
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
i hear that the Tokyo Monorail is one of the most Profitable Monorail systems in the world but i wonder if this is better then the Disney world claim of the busiest monorail system in the world??
Define "better". The Tokyo line serves their main airport link to China - which has more value to you?
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2008, 04:17 PM   #150
forrestcat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide--Multiculturalization Capital
Posts: 1,837
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by jserradell View Post
@ allurban:

Thank you very much for the map and the information.

Do you know when the system will open?
Unknown.The project will resume once Putrajaya's population is at a viable level.Note that the project was postponed due to financial crisis following the Asian Crisis of 1998.
__________________
VISIT MALAYSIA 2007
MULTICULTURALIZATION CAPITAL-KUALA LUMPUR
http://www.tourism.gov.my/
forrestcat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2008, 04:20 PM   #151
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
i hear that the Tokyo Monorail is one of the most Profitable Monorail systems in the world but i wonder if this is better then the Disney world claim of the busiest monorail system in the world??
Even if Disney's is busier, one has to take a few things into consideration:
1. Disney's offers a very small handful of stops, over a very small area
2. Disney's is confined to within the same private property

Tokyo Monorail has variable fares related to distance, and serves an airport as well, including special tickets integrated into airport travel. There's a lot more business around the Tokyo Monorail than the Disney one.
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2008, 02:55 AM   #152
Electrify
Registered User
 
Electrify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Markham (Thornhill), Ontario
Posts: 1,684
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
Tama Monorail is worthless crap. I've been on it. Worst route ever. I took it one-way, and took an alternate route back to where I came from it was so craptacularly slow. Tama Monorail is very poor on speed, it's like "I can get out and run faster than this" slow. If that's your idea of good standard, you have shockingly poor standards. That thing is also ridiculously expensive for a train trip in general, nevermind for the poor quality of the service offered on the Tama Monorail.

These do not have HRT speeds, nor HRT capacities, what with 2-door cars and all that jazz.
I was referring to capacity, not speed. Tama's monorail is one of the heaviest used in the world, with almost 100,000 passengers per day. I don't know all the details about Tama's design, but monorails have already proven themselves as fast with Tokyo's and Seattle's running at 80km/h. The same maximum speed as many LRT systems.

And believe me, I really don't have to look too far to find light rail lines moving at turtle like speeds
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by OEincorparated View Post
You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
Electrify no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2008, 06:13 AM   #153
Songoten2554
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami Florida
Posts: 1,063
Likes (Received): 87

ok then tell me this then

Disney Monorail for both Califorina and Florida they claim its the busiest then why can it expand to other areas and add different Themes to the new Stations as well within the Disney parks

it makes me puzzle that because normally when a transportation network or project is making money which means its busy and all then its ok to green light to expand??? right

then why hasn't the Disney monorail expanded to serve the other areas??? sounds really odd in that part?

like for DisneyLand to put a station with Califorina Adventure with a old classical California Railway Station design, and the hotel stations can have a different theme as well and expand to other areas within disney as well

for Disneyworld they made the magic kingdom one and the epcot one and thats it something stopped what about hollywood studios and Animal Kingdom they left them without a monorail route or stop whats so ever

the station for Hollywood studios can be a cool hollywood style Station with Film Strips in the celiing and such like the Los Angeles Metro Red Line
and the animal Kingdom Station for the monorail can have a plants and trees design and animal cravings and pics all over the Animal Kingdom Station it would be awsome to see that

Last edited by Songoten2554; January 7th, 2008 at 12:38 PM.
Songoten2554 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2008, 11:50 AM   #154
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
I was referring to capacity, not speed. Tama's monorail is one of the heaviest used in the world, with almost 100,000 passengers per day. I don't know all the details about Tama's design, but monorails have already proven themselves as fast with Tokyo's and Seattle's running at 80km/h. The same maximum speed as many LRT systems.

And believe me, I really don't have to look too far to find light rail lines moving at turtle like speeds
You referred to speed just now though. Tama monorail's speed is turtle like, no contest. And its capacity is nothing compared to other train lines (as most use much longer trainsets) - the trainsets are short, easily among the shortest in Tokyo. Its capacity per car is high, yes, but it is meaningless when there is no demand for it - it is not a sustainable line and is a failure financially, the line is poorly planned and designed with poor performance. It looks awful too, which is ironic, the Tokyo monorail was a first, it set the stage for monorails as a viable mode of transportation, yet it is less obstructive with its infrastructure and looks better at stations (and in rolling stock for that matter), and is far more affordable in its cost per unit of distance. The Tokyo monorail I'd easily argue sees higher traffic than Tama's, and as it uses longer trains, so obviously has higher capacity, and runs trains much much more frequently, since it actually has demand.
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 03:04 AM   #155
haze
Registered User
 
haze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Klang Valley
Posts: 1,373
Likes (Received): 9

Malaysia to bid for New Delhi monorail project

Talks on a venture to develop an inter-city expressway are also in progress

NEW DELHI: Plans are under way for Malaysia to bid for a multi-billion-dollar monorail transport system in India's capital city.

Works Minister Datuk Seri S Samy Vellu said at a press conference here yesterday that an initial meeting will be held today with the Industry Minister of India and the New Delhi government on the matter.

Discussions on a venture to develop an inter-city expressway are also in progress to alleviate and disperse traffic congestion in New Delhi based on the highway concession model practised in Malaysia.

Samy Vellu said in the same way that the North South Expressway encouraged more foreign investment into Malaysia, the proposed inter-city superhighways can promote development within a shorter period of time catering for greater investment opportunities focused at a larger geographical area.

"We are optimistic that both ventures would take off next year as the Indian government has acknowledged Malaysia's proven track record in both these areas," he added.

Samy Vellu said several negotiations are also being held at the ministerial level for the production of pre-fabricated steel products for India's construction industry, which will see input and expertise coming from Malaysian construction players.

The minister is leading a 70-member team of politicians, social activists and business professionals to the two-day 6th Pravasi Bharatiya Divas (PBD) 2008.

Over 1,500 delegates from 43 countries are attending this year's annual meeting of Indian diaspora, which Samy Vellu said represents a positive platform for more than 26 million Indians living outside India to exchange ideas, experiences and opportunities for economic, social and knowledge based development.

Themed "Engaging The Diaspora: The Way Forward", the event will focus on the development of rural economies and improvements on education, health, youth and investment.

"PBD will project these social issues and enable overseas Indians to express their ideas and ways of possible participation," Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh said when launching the event.

At the event, Manmohan also launched the Overseas Workers Resource Centre (OWRC), a helpline for emigrant workers, and announced measures for the welfare of Non-Resident Indians. Key PBD initiatives include the Marketplace by the Overseas Indian Facilitation Centre for business promotion, and exhibitions by 17 Indian states and 50 private exhibitors.

The event is organised by the Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs, in partnership with the Confederation of Indian Industry and the Delhi government.
__________________
Kuala Lumpur | كوالا لومڤور | 吉隆坡 | கோலாலம்பூர்

TRULY'ASIA'CAMPAIGN

UNDI UNTUK MALAYSIA

Cintai Bahasa & Budaya Kita
haze no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2008, 08:14 PM   #156
Electrify
Registered User
 
Electrify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Markham (Thornhill), Ontario
Posts: 1,684
Likes (Received): 5

Interesting article comparing transit options in Las Vegas.

Quote:

Let's get this straight: I'm no Lewis or Clark (those guys who led an American expedition to the Pacific Northwest), but I'm somewhat of a go-to gal in the features department. Or maybe I'm the one with the freshest legs or most adventurous spirit.

Or maybe I'm just the office sucker.

Whatever the reason, my boss selected me to examine the traps and travails of public transit on the Strip. The whole idea came about when someone wondered, "What's the deal with the monorail? Is it really a convenient way to get around?" That sparked our curiosity. Is it? And what about the bus? Or taxis?

So I set out with a plan that sounded like a math formula: You have $50. Take the Las Vegas Monorail and compare and contrast trips on the bus and in a taxi.



With notebook in hand and sneakers on foot, I hit the Strip on a Thursday afternoon, when 125,000 people were attending the SEMA auto convention at the Las Vegas Convention Center.

Catching the monorail is simple enough, if you get on at the stop at Sahara. That's the beginning of the line and, even at its busiest, isn't nearly as crowded as the other six stops.

The ride to the end is fast and easy, if you manage to grab a seat. If not, you'll be lurching around and trying to avoid touching anything or anyone, as Mike Anderson was. In town for the SEMA convention, he hopped on at the Convention Center stop. That's where the bulk of passengers boarded, making the cars full but not unbearable. I had a couple of bellies in my face, but that's the price you pay for sitting.

"I'm not big on public transportation, but I thought we'd try it," Anderson says, conspicuously holding his hands near his sides. "I'm trying not to touch the rails."

Good point. The monorail is cheap and quick compared to driving or taking a taxi or bus, says California visitor Randy Armenta, 24. He and his three friends, who were staying at the Sahara, were taking the monorail to the MGM Grand for lunch. They've been in Las Vegas a few times and have used every form of transportation.

"Taxis are faster, but they're expensive. The monorail is only $9," Armenta says. "If we were in a taxi we would have spent $40 already."

The main drawback to the monorail? It's not available 24 hours.

The guys attended a Halloween party at Tao at The Venetian and, when they tried to catch the monorail back to their hotel at 3 a.m., they were an hour too late. It runs from 7 a.m. to 2 a.m. weekdays and until 3 a.m. Friday and Saturday.

"I wish we had known, I could have worn better footwear for walking," Armenta says.

The monorail ride is not unpleasant, though the view is nothing special. We had to endure some interesting recorded announcements, such as: "Welcome to the Las Vegas monorail. 'Mono' meaning one and 'rail' meaning, well, rail." Those who noticed shook their heads and rolled their eyes.

The ride from end to end took 15 minutes and cost me only $1, the local fare. A one-day pass for nonlocals costs $9. You have to buy your ticket from a live person if you want the discounted rate, though. Booths are located at each of the seven stops.

The Las Vegas Monorail travels only on the east side of the Strip with the track ending at MGM Grand. My boss wanted me to take a train all the way to end of the Strip, which meant I had to get to the Excalibur to hop the free Mandalay Bay express tram (also a monorail, 'mono' meaning one and rail meaning, well, 'rail.') How to do that?

First, I had to get into the MGM. I disembarked the monorail at 3 p.m. and headed that way, passing restaurants, the Grand Garden Arena, an oxygen bar. Ten minutes later, as I entered the casino area, I was overcome by waves of thirst. By this point, if you're following in my footsteps, you may want to stop and play a machine so the cocktail waitress will bring you a beer. You're going to need it. However, I was on the clock so I only allowed myself the thought.

After a few minutes of trying to figure out which exit to take to the Excalibur, I stopped and asked for directions at the gift shop.

"You're going to go out this store," a nice lady tells me, "follow the wall to the Rainforest Cafe."

Essentially, go through the casino to the Rainforest Cafe, up the escalator, out the door and across the walkway to the New York-New York.

"Or just go take a taxi," she says, looking at me strangely.

Once inside the New York-New York, turn left, past the pretzel stand. Just before you exit the door leading to the Excalibur, stop and buy a Nathan's Famous hotdog. Eat it. It will either sustain you or make you sick, both of which will put an extra lift in your step. Then, follow the signs to the tram.

The ride is free and quick, which is a good thing, since the car is small, hot and crowded. Five minutes later, you're at Mandalay Bay. The whole trip, from the Sahara to MGM to Mandalay Bay, took 45 minutes. That's minus restroom and hot dog breaks, though.

It sounds time consuming but not nearly as much as riding the bus, especially on a Friday night.

I boarded the Deuce across from Mandalay Bay at about 6:35 p.m. The bus (headed north) runs every six minutes from noon to 10 p.m. and I didn't have to wait at all; in fact, a bus pulled up just as I got to the stop. I scrambled for $2; you need exact change to ride.

It was a double decker packed with people on the bottom floor so I went to the top. Not as crowded there, probably because it was so hot. The ride was mostly quiet and not that scenic, unless you like construction projects and cars. Lots of cars.

Traffic on a Friday night is heavy; most of the 80 minutes on the bus were spent driving a few feet, then sitting at a red light. The heat from the engine seemed to collect right around my seat on the top level so I went downstairs about half way into the ride.

People spent their time looking out the window, reading guidebooks or talking to their companions. They were polite, giving up their seats to older passengers or those with children.

"It's a cheap way to go a short distance," says Janet Burns, a Washington tourist who was meeting friends at Caesars.

The trip to the Sahara was uneventful, definitely cheap, but long.

I saved what I thought would be the most expensive trip for last; I caught a cab at Planet Hollywood during rush hour on a Thursday.

I grabbed a taxi at 4 p.m. There were six people in line but plenty of taxis, as was the case at four hotels I scouted. Even with lines that were 30 people deep, the waits were little more than 10 minutes.

Strip cabs run quickly and the only time it's difficult to find one is during a big event, such as New Year's Eve, says my driver, Rick. He didn't want to use his last name. He's been driving cabs for about two years, he says, and enjoys it. The money is decent and the people interesting. The hours, however, are long; he works 12-hour shifts, six days a week.

The cab smelled like something tropical or coconut, and it was spotless. The leather looked new and there wasn't a speck of dirt on the floors.

Taxis are by far the most convenient way to get around the Strip, but they are the most expensive. Just to get in one costs $3.30. One-eleventh of a mile costs 20 cents and waiting costs $28 an hour. That means your fare will go up not only by the distance you travel but the length of time you're in the cab. If you're stuck in Strip traffic during peak hours, you're going to pay a lot.

"It's fine, other than the cost," Brenda Carter, a SEMA attendee from Missouri, says of taxis in Las Vegas. She took one from the airport to her hotel, the Golden Nugget; it cost $40 one-way.

"I'm used to traveling places where they pick you up from the airport," Carter says. "Not here. But it's easy to get a cab."

My destination was the Palms, so the driver exited Planet Hollywood and turned right. We stopped at a red light before turning left on Flamingo; I watched the fare tick up 20 cents every 25 or 30 seconds, and I wondered if I had enough cash.

You should make sure you have enough cash before you get into a taxi, as most don't take credit cards, my driver tells me. The distance is about two miles, he says, but there's lots of waiting time. I could tell he was trying to get me to my destination as quickly as possible but there's no slicing through Las Vegas rush hour traffic.

"Now is the worst time to be on the roads," Rick says, citing the convention and locals getting off from work as the reason. He guessed my fare would cost about $20 and it did: $19.70. The trip took nearly 30 minutes. At some point, he turned the meter off as we were waiting to pull into the Palms, saving me some money. But, I had to get back to my car.

That cost me another $20.

Contact reporter Sonya Padgett at [email protected] or (702) 380-4564.
http://www.lvrj.com/living/11182111.html

So in conclusion:

Bus = cheapest, but slowest and least convenient
Taxi = most expensive, but fastest (in good traffic) and most convenient
Monorail = average price, average speed and convenience, fastest during rush hour
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by OEincorparated View Post
You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
Electrify no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2008, 01:57 AM   #157
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
Interesting article comparing transit options in Las Vegas.



http://www.lvrj.com/living/11182111.html

So in conclusion:

Bus = cheapest, but slowest and least convenient
Taxi = most expensive, but fastest (in good traffic) and most convenient
Monorail = average price, average speed and convenience, fastest during rush hour
And, of course, light rail = cheaper than monorail, but with all the benefits.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2008, 04:05 AM   #158
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
And, of course, light rail = cheaper than monorail, but with all the benefits.
But not in Seattle:

Seattle Green Line Monorail (Proposed Contract with Cascadia Monorail)
Total Project Cost Including Operating Subsidies for First Decade (YOE Dollars)
$2.016 billion / 14 miles = $144 million/mile
Construction Cost (YOE Dollars)
$1.615 billion / 14 miles = $115 million/mile
Construction Cost (2005 Dollars)
$1.35 billion / 14 miles = $96 million/mile

Seattle Central Link Light Rail
Initial Segment (YOE Dollars)
$2.44 billion / 13.9 miles = $176 million/mile
Airport Extension Including Necessary Changes to Adjacent Roads (YOE Dollars)
$300 million / 1.7 miles = $176 million/mile
University of Washington Extension
$1.7 billion / 3.15 miles = $540 million/mile
ST2 Extensions - Mid-Range Cost Estimate (2006 Dollars)
$9.62 billion / 49.4 miles = $195 million/mile

Light rail can be a cost effective option where there is an existing at-grade corridor that can be exploited. Seattle had no such corridor. The result is that light rail in Seattle is as expensive as heavy rail. Monorail offers compelling advantages in such a situation as the line can be elevated with relatively little shading and noise impact to the streets below.
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2008, 04:52 AM   #159
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

For anyone who is interested, the following are cost numbers for the two recent monorail projects in the United States:

Las Vegas Monorail
Total Project Cost Including Reserves (YOE Dollars)
$650 million / 3.9 miles = $167 million/mile
Construction Cost (YOE Dollars)
$342.3 million / 3.9 miles = $88 million/mile

Seattle Green Line (Proposed Contract with Cascadia Monorail)
Total Project Cost Including Operating Subsidies for First Decade (YOE Dollars)
$2.016 billion / 14 miles = $144 million/mile
Construction Cost (YOE Dollars)
$1.615 billion / 14 miles = $115 million/mile
Construction Cost (2005 Dollars)
$1.35 billion / 14 miles = $96 million/mile

The following are the costs of recent and proposed light rail projects. I believe most are quoted in YOE dollars but I cannot confirm that this is true in all cases:

Charlotte (Completed 2007)
$462.7 million / 9.6 miles = $48 million/mile
Phoenix
$1.3 billion / 20.3 miles = $64 million/mile
Los Angeles - Gold Line Initial Segment (Completed 2003.)
$859 million / 13.7 miles = $63 million/mile
Los Angeles - Gold Line East Los Angeles Extension (Includes 1.7 mile tunnel.)
$898 million / 6 miles = $150 million/mile
Los Angeles - Expo/Aqua Line Initial Segment
$640 million / 8.6 miles = $74 million/mile
San Diego - Green Line Extension (Completed 2005.)
$506 million / 5.8 miles = $87 million/mile
San Francisco - MUNI Third Street Extension (Completed 2007.)
$667 million / 5.6 miles = $119 million/mile
Portland - Interstate MAX Yellow Line
$350 million / 5.8 miles = $60 million/mile
Dallas - Green Line
$1.67 billion / 27.7 miles = $60 million/mile
Minneapolis - Hiawatha Line (Completed 2003.)
$675.4 million / 11.6 miles = $58 million/mile
Sacramento - Folsom Line Extension to Sunrise (All single-track. Completed 2005.)
$89 million / 2.8 miles = $32 million/mile
Norfolk
$232.1 million / 7.4 miles = $31.4 million/mile
Seattle - Central Link Initial Segment
$2.44 billion / 13.9 miles = $176 million/mile
Seattle - Central Link SeaTac Airport Extension (All elevated.)
($225 million light rail construction + $75 million road realignment) / 1.7 miles = $176 million/mile
Central Link University of Washington Extension (All in tunnels.)
$1.7 billion / 3.15 miles = $540 million/mile

The following are the costs for recent and proposed heavy rail projects in Washington, D.C.:

Largo Town Center Extension (Completed 2004.)
$456 million / 3.1 miles = $147 million/mile
Dulles Airport Extension
$5.1 billion / 23 miles = $222 million/mile

There is also one fully-featured BRT line that should be included in this list:

Los Angeles Orange Line BRT (Completed 2005)
$330 million / 14 miles = $24 million/mile
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2008, 05:03 AM   #160
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
But not in Seattle:

Seattle Green Line Monorail (Proposed Contract with Cascadia Monorail)
Total Project Cost Including Operating Subsidies for First Decade (YOE Dollars)
$2.016 billion / 14 miles = $144 million/mile
Construction Cost (YOE Dollars)
$1.615 billion / 14 miles = $115 million/mile
Construction Cost (2005 Dollars)
$1.35 billion / 14 miles = $96 million/mile

Seattle Central Link Light Rail
Initial Segment (YOE Dollars)
$2.44 billion / 13.9 miles = $176 million/mile
Airport Extension Including Necessary Changes to Adjacent Roads (YOE Dollars)
$300 million / 1.7 miles = $176 million/mile
University of Washington Extension
$1.7 billion / 3.15 miles = $540 million/mile
ST2 Extensions - Mid-Range Cost Estimate (2006 Dollars)
$9.62 billion / 49.4 miles = $195 million/mile

Light rail can be a cost effective option where there is an existing at-grade corridor that can be exploited. Seattle had no such corridor. The result is that light rail in Seattle is as expensive as heavy rail. Monorail offers compelling advantages in such a situation as the line can be elevated with relatively little shading and noise impact to the streets below.
You're right, because your silly comparison of monorail's projected cost to light rail's actual cost (also a few years later, and not adjusted to matching dollars) is totally accurate! Oh, wait, but they go different places, and had different real estate costs, and we don't actually know what the monorail would have cost because it never made it past bid!

I know you have this idea that proprietary technology is cheaper, but in the real world, it fails over and over again while people like me get things done. Please, get over yourself.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium