daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 14th, 2015, 11:06 PM   #381
Rodalvesdepaula
Scooter/motorbike lover
 
Rodalvesdepaula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sorocaba (SP), Brazil
Posts: 49,562
Likes (Received): 40911

For me, Tokyo commuter rail isn't similar to RER. The only similarity between the two systems is the operation of lines like a "cross-city" style.

All RER lines has underground sections in Paris downtown, reaching the main places of the city. Also, RER headways range from 5 to 15 minutes and part of rolling stock are double-decker trains.

Tokyo commuter rail don't have any underground section (except Tsukuba Express and JR Sobu/Keiyo line below Tokyo Station) and the headway is too small (4 minutes in Yamanote Line). Tokyo railways stations have "like-subway" style, with turnstiles. Also, many services terminate in Tokyo, Shibuya and Shinjuku stations.

For me, a similar system with Tokyo commuter rail is São Paulo commuter rail system. High-frequency trains, no underground sections, "like-subway" stations and a very crowed system.

__________________


mrsmartman liked this post

Last edited by Rodalvesdepaula; May 14th, 2015 at 11:15 PM.
Rodalvesdepaula no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 15th, 2015, 12:35 AM   #382
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

Many lines are actually through running, not terminating lines especially with the interlining. I think the debate is a bit questionable in general whether something is "like" something else given I've not seen a set up like Japans commuter rail outside of Japan anywhere I've travelled so far around the world. The interlining situation is very unique indeed as I don't think any other network in the world does that. Whilst some operators (primarily the private operators) do terminate, many are now opting to through run. Only three lines out of all 13 subway lines do not have a through running service (Marunouchi, Ginza and Oedo). So yes, many of the commuter rails do run underground through the city thanks to this and the metro likewise transitions seamlessly into the rest of the commuter system too.

Out of interest, have you visited Japan?
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 01:36 AM   #383
Rodalvesdepaula
Scooter/motorbike lover
 
Rodalvesdepaula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sorocaba (SP), Brazil
Posts: 49,562
Likes (Received): 40911

Not, yet.

I have plans to visit Tokyo and Hakodate in 2017. Almost all my FB friends are Japanese (Tokyo, Osaka, Hakodate, Yokohama, Shizuoka and Kyushu) and my girlfriend lives in Sumida, Tokyo.
__________________

Rodalvesdepaula no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 04:54 AM   #384
sacto7654
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 796
Likes (Received): 283

Unfortunately, eliminating the at-grade crossings for Odakyu just outside Shinjuku Station and Keikyu just south of Shingawa Station may be impossible to do due to the land topgraphy and building structures near these crossings. Well, it could be possible with the Keikyu Main Line crossing, but it would have to be a fairly steep grade and they may have to eliminate Kita-Shinagawa Station, too.
__________________

Rodalvesdepaula liked this post
sacto7654 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 06:49 AM   #385
ukiyo
スーパーモデレーターSuper Moderator
 
ukiyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 大阪府 Ōsaka
Posts: 7,243
Likes (Received): 10733

Giving labels to the Tokyo rail system is almost a useless effort, terms like "metro", "commuter" basically don't apply. The amount of through servicing going way out into the inaka, but combined with super high frequencies and ridership make many lines basically "all of the above".

I wrote the following for wikipedia "metro systems" page for the ridership notes section:

Compared to European or North American systems, Japanese rapid transit systems are generally neither thought of as metros nor as completely subterranean "subways" complicating whether only using the municipal subway statistic is accurate when comparing with other Metros around the world. As example Tokyo Metro and the Tokyo Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation's Toei Subway constitute only 22% of the 14.6 billion metropolitan railway ridership in Greater Tokyo (MLIT Yearly Statistics). In addition, when one considers intracity lines of JR East and private railway companies, Greater Tokyo (130 lines) has higher daily ridership than any other metropolitan area in the world with 14.6 billion passengers annually.

Basically there is not really any difference of a metro line and any high capacity JR "commuter" line, other than maybe being underground. Even when there is not grade separation it's pretty much irrelevant because they always have priority and are still "rapid". Once again with so much through servicing nowadays this distinction is basically even more useless IMO.
__________________
🌸My Pictures: Tokyo, Tokyo 2, Kobe, Kamakura, Osaka, Kyoto, Nara, Himeji, Atlanta, China
🌸Japan Forum 日本フォーラム please stop by!
🌸浮世🌸

Svartmetall, mrsmartman liked this post
ukiyo está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 07:23 AM   #386
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

What does "inaka" mean?
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 09:00 AM   #387
cal_t
Transport Advocate
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brisbane/Melb
Posts: 455
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
What does "inaka" mean?
Bogan, chav, country folk.
__________________
Any views expressed are do not represent those of any companies and are personal only. If you are not the intended viewer, you may not disseminate or disclose this information.
cal_t no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 06:10 PM   #388
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

Please be more clear.

What do bogan and chav mean?

And what do you mean by country folk? That doesn't sound like a place or a destination.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 06:22 PM   #389
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

Haha, "Inaka" is the term for the countryside. Bogan is Australian/NZ slang for redneck (or their version of it), chav is a British term for the same thing. I don't think Inaka is equivalent to be honest.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 06:30 PM   #390
Sr.Horn
té con pastas member
 
Sr.Horn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,470

Kit-kat moment in this interesting discussion.


Keikyu investment plan for 2015

Keihin Electric Express Railway (Keikyu) has announced on May, 13 the capital investment plan for 2015, a total of 20,7 billion yen (around 152 million euro), of these, 17,7 billion yen will be inverted in safety improvements (130 million euro).



N1000 series 20 car to add and refurbishment of 24 cars of 2100 series trains. .





Viaduct seismic reinforcement (Shin-Banba to Aomono-Yokochō), slope protection, tunnel and bridge repairs.



Also, remember the underground section () under construction on Keikyu Daishi Line (Kawasaki City) between Kawasaki-Daishi and Higashi-Monzen (980 meters in total). This is part of the quasy-full-tunnelling of the Keikyu Daishi Line.



Project: http://www.city.kawasaki.jp/530/cmsf...ren-rittai.pdf

http://www.city.kawasaki.jp/980/cmsf...29machi2-1.pdf

Source: http://response.jp/article/2015/05/15/251271.html

Keikyu Daishi line cab view from Kojimashinden to Keikyu Kawasaki where you can see the construction progress (recorded on December 2014):
__________________
Sr.Horn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 06:53 PM   #391
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

Excellent update and exciting to see further investment in the private lines too.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #392
Sr.Horn
té con pastas member
 
Sr.Horn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,470

Wait, wait!


Tokyu investment plan for 2015

Same day as Keikyu, Tokyu Corporation presented the investment plan for this year. The budget rise to 48,2 billion yen (353 million euro). Divided in two for safety improvements and service expansion and platform door installation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyu_5000_series

With the platform doors, 45 six-door cars (5000 series) will be replaced for standard four-door cars. Tokyu has planned to install platform doors in all stations on Toyoko, Den-en-toshi and Ōimachi lines by 2020.



Some stations is planned to receive different types of improvements such as Azamino, Kikuna, Gotanda or Ichigao (photo).

Source: http://response.jp/article/2015/05/15/251275.html
__________________

Svartmetall, dimlys1994, PredyGr, Zaz965 liked this post
Sr.Horn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #393
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

It's like one of those adverts - "but wait, there's more"!

Thank you for all the updates. They are appreciated (as is your hard work).
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #394
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,348
Likes (Received): 26144

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Is there any project to eliminate the Odakyu rail crossing in Shinjuku?

I'm also wondering about this. It would be very nice if this level crossing replaced. But conserning Shinjuku station, that's not so easy
__________________

Rodalvesdepaula, Zaz965 liked this post
dimlys1994 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2015, 06:09 AM   #395
Rodalvesdepaula
Scooter/motorbike lover
 
Rodalvesdepaula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sorocaba (SP), Brazil
Posts: 49,562
Likes (Received): 40911

215 Series are still in operation in Tokaido Main Line?



They are the only "full" double-decker commuter trains in Japan.
Rodalvesdepaula no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2015, 10:57 AM   #396
Sr.Horn
té con pastas member
 
Sr.Horn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,470

Yes, is still in operation but, is a commuter premium train used in some Home Liner services, which means an extra fee because all seats are reserved... but is not expensive as Limited Express trains.

The fleet is not large, only four units (10-car per set).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/215_series
__________________
Sr.Horn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2015, 01:33 PM   #397
starrwulfe
ご乗車頂いてありがとうございます。
 
starrwulfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 776
Likes (Received): 469

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr.Horn View Post
Wait, wait!


Tokyu investment plan for 2015

Same day as Keikyu, Tokyu Corporation presented the investment plan for this year. The budget rise to 48,2 billion yen (353 million euro). Divided in two for safety improvements and service expansion and platform door installation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyu_5000_series

With the platform doors, 45 six-door cars (5000 series) will be replaced for standard four-door cars. Tokyu has planned to install platform doors in all stations on Toyoko, Den-en-toshi and Ōimachi lines by 2020.



Some stations is planned to receive different types of improvements such as Azamino, Kikuna, Gotanda or Ichigao (photo).

Source: http://response.jp/article/2015/05/15/251275.html
Let's not forget that the tunneling works for the Nishiya-Hiyoshi run of the Sotetsu/Tokyu connector gets underway sometime this FY too. Hoardings are up all over the south end of Hiyoshi station now.
__________________

Sr.Horn, Zaz965 liked this post
starrwulfe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2015, 01:35 PM   #398
starrwulfe
ご乗車頂いてありがとうございます。
 
starrwulfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 776
Likes (Received): 469

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
I'm also wondering about this. It would be very nice if this level crossing replaced. But conserning Shinjuku station, that's not so easy
Really no need actually. Most people don't use this street because its a known fact you'll get caught up in the Odakyu never ending crossing
__________________

dimlys1994, pudgym29 liked this post
starrwulfe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2015, 01:56 PM   #399
Sr.Horn
té con pastas member
 
Sr.Horn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,470

Quote:
Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post
Let's not forget that the tunneling works for the Nishiya-Hiyoshi run of the Sotetsu/Tokyu connector gets underway sometime this FY too. Hoardings are up all over the south end of Hiyoshi station now.
True, Sotetsu/Tokyu/JR link needs many research before posting a big update, but ... I think you have exclusive information.
Sr.Horn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2015, 11:45 PM   #400
skyshakernowlive
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 120
Likes (Received): 16

There are several commuter/suburban lines that are in serious need of refurbishment. I'm also surprised at the number of rail lines with on-grade crossings.

I also want opinions on Tokyo Metro's commuter express services that run through on to sbahn lines and operate similarly to RER. Do you think Tokyo is better off stopping these services at their terminal stations?

I also want opinions on whether Tokyo should have more suburban rail lines.
__________________

Zaz965 liked this post
skyshakernowlive no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
chiba monorail, jr east, keio, keisei, metro, odakyu, seibu, tama monorail, tobu, toei subway, tokyo, tokyo metro, tokyu, yamanote

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium