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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:14 AM   #461
Sr.Horn
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Tokyo Monorail refurbished 2000 Series

Tokyo Monorail has started the operations of the redesigned 2000 Series on June 18th.



The appearance of renewed cars includes three colors: green, sky blue and blue with white body. Same as 10000 series.



The interior has changed too in order to standardize the fleet.

Source: http://news.mynavi.jp/news/2015/07/18/020/

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Old July 21st, 2015, 04:38 PM   #462
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Once the Tamachi branch of the Haneda Access Line opens, what will happen to the closely-paralleling Tokyo Monorail?

Will they reconfigure services (perhaps eliminating the expresses to the airport)?
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:03 AM   #463
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That's a possibility. In one scenario, since the Tamachi connection would have capacity constraints due to sections of single track, the role of the monorail would be to meet the need for local services.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:48 PM   #464
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Where is this about the Tamachi connection having single-track? I'd like to know more details about the plans if you could link them.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 06:23 PM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Where is this about the Tamachi connection having single-track? I'd like to know more details about the plans if you could link them.
Here is a link (Japanese)
Link
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 07:48 PM   #466
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Well, but this is the current freight branch and continues up to Hamamatsucho. The point, maybe, is the construction of a new underground link with the Yokosuka line in order to allow direct trains from Narita Airport to Haneda.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 09:00 PM   #467
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Well, but this is the current freight branch and continues up to Hamamatsucho. The point, maybe, is the construction of a new underground link with the Yokosuka line in order to allow direct trains from Narita Airport to Haneda.
You seem extremely knowledgable about Japanese rail lines so maybe I'm missing something, but... the segment of the Tokaido Freight Line from Tamachi to the Tokyo Freight Terminal Station is going to be handed over to the JR-Haneda connection, is it not?

The existing northern segment of the Tokaido Freight Line (which ends at Hamamatsucho as you point out) is actually not currently connected to the Tokaido line, or even anything at all, on its northern end. The diagram I linked to shows JR's current thinking as to how that connection could be made.



I somehow doubt JR would bother with a connection to the Yokosuka Line for a direct Haneda-Narita connection. This is a rather small market, and Keisei/Keikyu have a plan in the works for an express line from Oshiage through Tokyo Station and on to Shinagawa, to bypass the Asakusa Line, that would enable the trip in < 1 hour, which is way faster than anything JR could pull off with their rather meandering route to Narita along the Sobu Main Line. Keisei/Toei/Keikyu could probably beat anything JR could do in that market on trip time, even with just today's infrastructure, using the Asakusa Line as the connection, given the much more direct and faster route via the Hokuso Line.

JR's plan would connect the freight line to the Tokaido Main line and the Ueno-Tokyo line by tunneling a single track under the Shinkansen. There is probably much more benefit to JR from providing direct service to Haneda from Utsunomiya and Takasaki via the Tohoku mainline, and covering Chiba via the Rinkai -> Keiyo line. This does not allow a direct connection to Narita Airport but as mentioned before I doubt if JR would see much value in pursuing that market anyway for reasons mentioned above. There is likely more benefit to JR in pursing local passengers from southern Chiba Prefecture heading to Haneda instead. With a connection via Rinkai, They would compete quite favorably with existing services by Keisei in that market.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 09:21 PM   #468
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What do the middle and top of the picture say?

I know that the bottom is basically labeling the various tracks.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 09:36 PM   #469
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Thanks, you're correct. The abandoned Tokaido Freight Line will be dedicated to the JR Haneda Line (fake name). Apparently the track ends with no connection (Tokaido Shinkansen is a barrier). The Tamachi area looks dense in terms of rail tracks, viaducts etc. In my opinion, with this plan could be possible a double track tunnel doing an S from this point (https://goo.gl/maps/2dOXq) and move the Tokaido Line tracks a little like in the map you showed.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 09:42 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
What do the middle and top of the picture say?

I know that the bottom is basically labeling the various tracks.
"Tokyo direction" on top.

"Move the tracks" in order to allow the Haneda Line link with the Tokaido Main Line.
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 12:45 AM   #471
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Probably the reason they could get away with the single track connection is that there will be three branches feeding the JR Airport Access line, only one of which would be coming from Tokyo, so the frequency couldn't be so high that a small segment of single track would be a real bottleneck.

I think it would be cool to both convert the entire tokaido freight line to Yokohama for passenger use, as well as extend it as two additional tracks all the way to Tokyo, in addition to connecting to the Tokaido Line.
This would have utility far beyond just airport access, but would be much more technically difficult and expensive.

Past Hamamatsucho it could be a two track elevated viaduct, Ueno-Tokyo line style, and connect to the Chuo Kaisoku platforms elevated above the rest of Tokyo Station.

Not because it would really make sense, or even be possible, but because, hey! Let's get rid of all dead end tracks in central Tokyo. They're so close as it is... why not finish the job.

Last edited by orulz; July 23rd, 2015 at 12:51 AM.
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 12:55 AM   #472
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I was thinking along those lines myself. You could probably keep it at ground level all the way to Shiodome.

Personally, I think that you still have the issue of the Joban Line and Keiyo Line lying around. I would ideally extend Haneda tracks north to Ueno, and divert the Chuo Rapid down to the Keiyo line.

Of course, this would mean completely replacing the Shinkansen tracks, and totally rebuilding Tokyo Station. So this is more of a dream than anything else.
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 09:01 AM   #473
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Is it possible to add another level of platforms at Tokyo Station (at the same level as the Chuo Line ones)?

I'm just a bit curious on how Tokyo Monorail intends to connect there (if they are, and what I've heard is correct), as well as any capacity constraints on the Ueno-Tokyo Line if they run any more lines through it.

Also, is there really a need for so many Tokaido Shinkansen platforms at Tokyo Station, now that we have Shinagawa? Fairly sure that either the Omiya-bound Shinkansen should have more platforms, or is 4 enough with the Hokuriku, Joetsu and Tohoku Shinkansen (and mini-shinkansen lines) feeding into Tokyo - Omiya?
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Old July 25th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr.Horn View Post
I'll tell you one thing: Tokyo doesn't have a system called "RER" or "S-Bahn" so please do not insist on calling things by the wrong name.

If you want to talk about Tokyo Transport System in general, use words like "commuter" (commuter lines or commuter trains), "subway", and the service of the train on the line (Express, Rapid, Liner, Local, Through...).
There are neither subways or commuter lines. Greater Tokyo has main lines and metros rather. Although in most cases these two are barely distinguishable.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 09:11 PM   #475
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There are no subways?? What about the Toei Subway?
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Old July 26th, 2015, 03:28 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
Is it possible to add another level of platforms at Tokyo Station (at the same level as the Chuo Line ones)?

I'm just a bit curious on how Tokyo Monorail intends to connect there (if they are, and what I've heard is correct), as well as any capacity constraints on the Ueno-Tokyo Line if they run any more lines through it.
Of course there is plenty of room above platforms 3~6 (Yamanote and Keihin-Tōhoku lines) and may some above the Ueno-Tokyo line platforms too; the real issue is where to have the stairs down to the terminal area.


Other considerations would also be whether to simply share the Tokyo Station gates (easy since the monorail is actually a JR East property) or have a separate gate and ticketing area somewhere.

The most ideal situation would be to run the Chuo Rapid underground somehow so that it connects to the Keiyo line, then have the Monorail use that space on tracks 1 & 2...

Quote:
Also, is there really a need for so many Tokaido Shinkansen platforms at Tokyo Station, now that we have Shinagawa? Fairly sure that either the Omiya-bound Shinkansen should have more platforms, or is 4 enough with the Hokuriku, Joetsu and Tohoku Shinkansen (and mini-shinkansen lines) feeding into Tokyo - Omiya?
You need that much space because you have both JR East's Akita, Hokuriku/Nagano, and Joetsu Shinkansen along with JR Central's Tokaido Shinkansen terminating there. The stations for both are actually back to back and on the same level, but I really wish both could through-route and simply continue onto each others tracks like they do at Osaka and Hakata between JR Central, JR West and JR Kyushu. Osaka to Osaka via Tokyo, Nagano and Kanazawa could actually be a thing then!

Also bear in mind that the Tokaido Shinkansen is really also the Kyushu and Sanyo interlined routes as well and have an extremely low headway (every 12 minutes peak) so the platforms are necessary.

Last edited by starrwulfe; July 26th, 2015 at 03:41 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 05:31 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post
Other considerations would also be whether to simply share the Tokyo Station gates (easy since the monorail is actually a JR East property) or have a separate gate and ticketing area somewhere.

The most ideal situation would be to run the Chuo Rapid underground somehow so that it connects to the Keiyo line, then have the Monorail use that space on tracks 1 & 2...
There may be a way to run the Chuo Rapid into the basement - the question is how you would build it (tube-style construction in Tokyo? )

And I remember hearing about alignment problems at Hamamatsucho?

The monorail could be built as a single bay platform directly over the Shinkansen platforms with direct escalator access to the Yaesu exit, and/or a bridge to the zairaisen platforms, or they could use the existing Tokaido Shinkansen platforms (see below)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post
You need that much space because you have both JR East's Akita, Hokuriku/Nagano, and Joetsu Shinkansen along with JR Central's Tokaido Shinkansen terminating there. The stations for both are actually back to back and on the same level, but I really wish both could through-route and simply continue onto each others tracks like they do at Osaka and Hakata between JR Central, JR West and JR Kyushu. Osaka to Osaka via Tokyo, Nagano and Kanazawa could actually be a thing then!

Also bear in mind that the Tokaido Shinkansen is really also the Kyushu and Sanyo interlined routes as well and have an extremely low headway (every 12 minutes peak) so the platforms are necessary.
Alright, thanks for the answer, and with that I'm going to be doing some incoherent babbling and going off topic...

JR East has 4 platforms for 3 lines, Central has 6 platforms for 1 line, and wasn't there a proposal to turn some trains back at Shinagawa? (or that may be the reality - when I was in Tokyo last month I was told that was the case?) I would think JR East would have the worse problem down the road.

What I was thinking was to transfer platforms 14 and 15 to JR East at some point (maybe after the opening of the Chuo Shinkansen) to accommodate the upcoming Hokkaido Shinkansen, as well as service increases on the existing lines. The connection to the Tokaido Shinkansen would remain to allow for through-running of the W7 series on the Tokaido.

Also, if you're going beyond Hakata, don't you have to change at either Shin-Osaka or Hakata or somewhere in between? I believe there's more capacity in Shin-Osaka, and then there's the Chuo Shinkansen, which I heard may kill all the Nozomi services...

Also another question - how much capacity is being used on the Ueno-Tokyo Line at this point? Can they squeeze some more trains down to Shinagawa?

My current thought process is to throw all the Shinkansen services down to Shinagawa - you'd have the Tokaido, Chuo and JR East services all stopping there, with Tokyo Station becoming more of a hub for zairaisen services. It may then be possible to close the Shinkansen stop at Ueno (not much of a point when you can take the Ueno-Tokyo Line 1 stop), with only JR East Shinkansen services stopping at Tokyo Station, and extended down to Shinagawa over the old Tokaido tracks.

Not sure how well this would work out, but if the new platforms were added to the 3rd floor, with access from the current 2nd level platforms (and maybe a bridge like Osaka Station's on the 4th floor, linking to the Yaesu side (and if they can find space) the Marunouchi side as well?

Then again, I'm not sure if JR East wants to build another Shinjuku...
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Last edited by luacstjh98; July 26th, 2015 at 05:57 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #478
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There are no subways??
Not as part of the rail-bound transport network.

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What about the Toei Subway?
That's quite a misnomer as they actually operate metro lines.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 06:54 PM   #479
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I don't mean to question too much to keep this debate rolling especially given the original poster using those terms has been banned, but aren't Subways and Metros interchangeable and both mean simply "heavy rail rapid transit"?
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Old July 26th, 2015, 10:47 PM   #480
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Yes they have the same meaning. However, some people take issue with the term subway since it initially represented an underground rail line (in English the prefix "sub" means below or under) and not all metro systems have underground sections and the ones that do may still be predominantly elevated or at grade. But of course, language changes and evolves over time, and just because a word had a particular origin doesn't mean that it will always have the exact same meaning.
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