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Old March 21st, 2016, 01:03 PM   #641
loefet
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Not to forget the massive energy savings that new models can give compared to older ones. Since saving energy is something that have been something that many strive for since the Fukushima disaster, or at least that's the vibe I have gotten from many of the reports of newer trains and stations on here.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 02:48 PM   #642
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Not to forget the massive energy savings that new models can give compared to older ones. Since saving energy is something that have been something that many strive for since the Fukushima disaster, or at least that's the vibe I have gotten from many of the reports of newer trains and stations on here.
There were efforts to reduce power consumption such as removing a portion of lights in train carriages and station platform areas in the summer after the 3/11 disaster, but overall energy saving designs have been continuous in Japan since the oil shock of the early 1970's, and it shows- Japan has a per capita electricity consumption of 6763kwh, compared with Germany's 7191kwh, which is no slouch either. I won't give the US numbers, but suffice to say it's close to double of those two nations.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 03:21 PM   #643
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I guess there is one aspect of comparison that is not being brought up here. That is that JR are a private company focused on profit as well as a public transport company. That gives them a bit of a unique place compared to systems worldwide. Whilst it might be acceptable to run old trains on other systems, if JR wants to stay ahead and still make a profit, on their high-profile and highly used lines it makes sense to have the most modern and comfortable rolling stock that offer the best service for their customers. This alone could possibly make a big difference in the mentality of rolling stock procurement for these companies.

I'll let someone else comment on that as this is just theoretical from my part.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 04:14 PM   #644
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One of the reasons for massive recent procurements is because the last generation, dating to the early 90s, was built somewhat cheaply, perhaps due to the financial distress the rail system was in at the time.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 05:36 PM   #645
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If that were the case, would those rolling stock still be used on other, less trafficked and less important lines?
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Old March 21st, 2016, 05:38 PM   #646
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Only after very extensive overhauls that are only slightly cheaper than buying new stock.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 06:20 PM   #647
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Something that's been on my mind lately:

Would the Marunouchi or Ginza lines be good candidates for conversion to full GoA 4 unmanned operations, like the Yurikamome or Nippori-Toneri Liner? They could theoretically be automated with a process similar to the Paris Metro Line 1, with the replacement of the 02 stock...

(well, if you want to talk about isolated networks, there's also the Oedo Line and Keio Inokashira Line, just to name two)
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Old March 21st, 2016, 08:38 PM   #648
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The Inokashira Line still has grade crossings, so its out. The Oedo Line would be a good candidate, but Marunouchi and Ginza still have some issues-there's a grade crossing on the approach to Ginza's shops, etc.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 10:11 PM   #649
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New Keikyu 1800 series



Now in service:



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Old March 23rd, 2016, 12:33 AM   #650
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These new trainsets operate only on Keikyu Main Line?
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 04:55 AM   #651
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Someone else will fill in this information better than I can, but to me it seems that JR East retires rolling stock faster on routes where there is heavy use, heavy stop-start use and/or where newer stock offers significant advantages over current stock. They seem to rotate around a lot of stock, and indeed you can see from the Nambu Line stock replacement that you can have some fairly persistent stock for a long time before the replacement comes along, same with the Musashino line. The less used the line, the older the stock, and often the stock from the more heavily used line will be shunted onto them. For the Yamanote line, due to its stop/start nature and massive passenger loads, they often simply don't seem to last as long.
I think JR East has to replace their trainsets more often because having to serve the most populated metropolitan area on Earth (with nearly 37 million people), that means their trains get a LOT of heavy use in commuter service. That's why JR East built a very large number of E233 Series trainsets for their various commuter lines, and the upcoming E235 will be a precusor to future trainsets that could start to replace the oldest E233's from 2021 on.

That heavy use is why all the private passenger railroads in the Tokyo metro area are also starting large-scale replacement programs for their trainsets.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 07:21 AM   #652
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I would think it's also got something to do with the Olympics anyway.

Though I wonder why they're even bothering with adding Green cars to the E233-0 units - why not just replace them early with E235s and cascade the E233-0 to the Musashino Line or somewhere else?
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Old March 24th, 2016, 05:48 AM   #653
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Though I wonder why they're even bothering with adding Green cars to the E233-0 units - why not just replace them early with E235s and cascade the E233-0 to the Musashino Line or somewhere else?
I think given how hard-worked the E231-500's on the Yamanote Line and the oldest E233's are, these trainsets probably won't likely be cascaded down to the Musashino Line and Chūō-Sōbu Line services, but instead likely head straight for the scrapyard. I expect once series production of the E235 starts later this year we will see additional E235 orders specifically for the Musashino and Chūō-Sōbu Line services.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 06:28 AM   #654
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The Musashino should still be running 205s and 209-500s last I checked on Wikipedia, which should be down for replacement already.

Chuo-Sobu Line can get new sets as far as I care, maybe they could look into replacing the E217s and 209-500s as well?

E233-0s run on the Chuo Rapid out to Hachioji and Takao - those aren't probably as overworked as the inner-city lines like the Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku and Chuo-Sobu lines. Having only E235s run along the Chuo, Sobu and Yokosuka lines would also help in standardizing Mitaka and/or Kamakura depots.

Maybe they can also get rid of the E231-800s or something. (sell them to Tokyo Metro? move to the Joban Line?)
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Old March 25th, 2016, 06:57 AM   #655
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I believe that the trains that run on the Musashino Line and Chūō-Sōbu Line services stop at every station, and all that stop-and-go operation puts a huge stress on the structure of the trainset itself. That's why I said those E231-500's now serving the Yamanote Line--once they retire--will probably head straight for the scrapyard, since the wear and tear on all that stop-and-to service will make them too expensive to do a major rebuild program before assigning them to other lines.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 07:38 AM   #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
The Inokashira Line still has grade crossings, so its out. The Oedo Line would be a good candidate, but Marunouchi and Ginza still have some issues-there's a grade crossing on the approach to Ginza's shops, etc.
There's also a grade crossing on the Marunouchi line in the same manner I've heard as well. At any rate, it would take a massive infrastructure upgrading to bring automatic unmanned ops to these lines. But then again the Hibiya line actually can run unmanned (and did so at various times in the 70's)
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Old March 25th, 2016, 07:39 AM   #657
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The Musashino Line seems to run at 10tph at most even in peaks, less than half of the Yamanote's 23tph in peak, so it probably has only a fraction of the Chuo-Sobu's ridership, never mind the Yamanote.

And from my knowledge the 205-5000s are actually refurbished former Yamanote sets so they should be falling apart by now. They also received 209-500s from the Keiyo Line, so...
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Old March 25th, 2016, 07:52 AM   #658
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I believe that the trains that run on the Musashino Line and Chūō-Sōbu Line services stop at every station, and all that stop-and-go operation puts a huge stress on the structure of the trainset itself. That's why I said those E231-500's now serving the Yamanote Line--once they retire--will probably head straight for the scrapyard, since the wear and tear on all that stop-and-to service will make them too expensive to do a major rebuild program before assigning them to other lines.
Musashino station runs are 2km or more apart; any train on that line stretches its legs.

Chuo-Sobu line is about a stop every 1 ½ kilometer or so, same as the Yamanote Line.

Chuo Rapid is that way until after Kokubunji, then the distances stretch out, but there's also special rapid services that skip a bunch of stops too.

Any train can get rebuilt and serve out more days though-- look at those Tokyu 8000 and Tokyo Metro 8000, 7000 & 6000 series cars that have been running since 1975! They just rebuild the good ones and sell the rest to Jakarta Commuter Railways.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #659
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There's also a grade crossing on the Marunouchi line in the same manner I've heard as well. At any rate, it would take a massive infrastructure upgrading to bring automatic unmanned ops to these lines. But then again the Hibiya line actually can run unmanned (and did so at various times in the 70's)
Interesting. I wonder why it was dropped though. Was it because of through-running with Tobu and Tokyu (which can probably be dropped, LOL), or the technology at the time not being up to scratch?
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Old March 26th, 2016, 02:23 PM   #660
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Why would you want to drop through running? It is one of the best things about the network!
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