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Old September 10th, 2016, 02:43 PM   #721
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Old September 10th, 2016, 04:27 PM   #722
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Quote:
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New test to use subway for freight transport

Tōkyō Metro, Tōbu Railway, and three freight delivery companies—Sagawa Express (佐川急便), Japan Post (日本郵便), and Yamato Transport (ヤマト運輸)—are participating.



The test will load small and medium-sized parcels in cardboard boxes onto the last car of non-revenue Tōkyō Metro Yūrakuchō Line trains running through central Tōkyō between Shin-Kiba Yard in Kōtō Ward and Wakōshi Yard in Saitama Prefecture. The test will also include early-morning offloading at Ginza Itchōme Station. The test will be conducted a total of 10 times until mid-October to help determine the feasibility of using passenger railways for small-scale freight transport without disrupting regular passenger train service. Benefits of the program could include reduced traffic congestion and carbon dioxide emissions, as well as resolving a shortage in truck drivers. This solution would also provide an alternative in the event that restrictions are placed on truck access into and out of central Tōkyō during the 2020 Summer Olympics.
Only for curiosity... In the early years of 20th Century, London Underground and Buenos Aires Subte had freight trains running on subway lines.

This system proposed by Tokyo Metro and Yamato could be interesting for São Paulo Metropolis.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 05:11 PM   #723
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New York and many other cities used streetcars, and Chicago had its own dedicated freight tunnel system.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 11:13 PM   #724
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There was a project called Sotetsu JR Link Line, a new connection between Sagami Railway and Tokaido Freight Line in Yokohama. With this project, Sotetsu trains could operate from west side of Yokohama to Shinjuku Station via Yokosuka Line.

Are there any news about it?
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Old September 11th, 2016, 06:12 AM   #725
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Thanks for the support, guys... Glad to see that the community here is still alive—much thanks to everyone who contributed posts and kept things together and moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
There was a project called Sotetsu JR Link Line, a new connection between Sagami Railway and Tokaido Freight Line in Yokohama...

Are there any news about it?
They're working on it, but completion will likely be pushed back due to difficulties with land acquisition and soil conditions:

Project to connect Sōtetsu with Tōkyū, JR delayed by as much as 3½ years
http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASJ8V5JH6J8VULOB00V.html

The Japan Railway Construction, Transport and Techonology Agency (JRTT) announced on August 26 that the start of through-services between Yokohama’s Sagami Railway (Sōtetsu) and central Tōkyō operators Tōkyū and JR East would be delayed by as much as 3½ years. The delays will increase the cost of the project by about ¥128.3 billion, likely bringing the total costs to over ¥400 billion.

The projects involve connecting Sōtetsu’s Nishiya Station and the Tōkaidō Freight Line with a new set of tracks and constructing a new station at Hazawa (羽沢). From Hazawa, another set of tracks would connect Hazawa Station with Hiyoshi Station on the Tōkyū Tōyoko Line and Meguro Line via a new station at Shin-Yokohama. The projects will make it possible to easily reach central Tōkyō from central Kanagawa Prefecture without the need to pass through Yokohama Station.

The Sōtetsu–JR connection was originally scheduled to open in FY2018, followed by the Sōtetsu–Tōkyū connection in April 2019. Because of difficulties with land acquisition and poorer soil conditions than expected, requiring ground improvement, the openings will be pushed out to the latter half of FY2019 for the Sōtetsu–JR connection and the latter half of FY2022 for the Sōtetsu–Tōkyū connection.

The original project cost estimate of ¥273.9 billion is also expected to increase to ¥402.2 billion as a result of the project delays and the increased cost of construction materials. The costs are being split in thirds among the national government, the JRTT, and local governments (Kanagawa Prefecture and Yokohama City).



Cab view of the construction work near Nishiya (2016.08.08):



Stationary view (2016.09.04):

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Old September 11th, 2016, 06:49 AM   #726
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As for the seats being able to be transformed from transverse to longitudinal layouts, that is something really new to me, allowing flexibility and comfort to merge beautifully between subway use and regional rail. Truly cutting edge and innovative, I must say.
This is not so uncommon in Japan, although it is most certainly not typical... As 00zy99 mentioned, Tōbu uses this arrangement on its 50090 series, which they use on the TJ Liner:



And before Tōbu was Kintetsu:



And before Kintetsu was JNR, which tested this type of system in the early 70s but never did anything with it. The new Keiō 5000 series will also use a similar type of system when it enters service in 2018. Both Keiō and Seibu are likely replicating Tōbu's approach, though, and will probably do this as a "liner"-type service where commuters can choose to pay a little extra to have a seat that faces forward on an uncrowded train.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #727
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I really wish that flexibility in seating can be done on board American trains, especially with BART. I really love that concept myself that I would love to study how that can be done here.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 07:56 AM   #728
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Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
This system proposed by Tokyo Metro and Yamato could be interesting for São Paulo Metropolis.
As long as it's off-peak and it's just small deliveries like parcels and mail seems, then it doesn't seem problematic, and may even be "compatible" or "complementary". Even the far shoulders of the peak period might work because many trains need to deadhead to or from yards anyways. I think here the problem would be just making sure that the items could be loaded or offloaded quickly without disrupting regular passenger service—most subway stations are simple two-track layouts and the ones that are larger typically need the additional tracks for passes or meets.

Anything much larger than parcels in bulk or volume—i.e., what we might typically associate with freight—seems somewhat problematic, since none of the trains or stations would be designed to handle that in terms of being able to quickly load from or off-load onto the platform and then have it sit there until someone can process it, much less be able to move it up or down to street level. Even in the news video, there was a fair amount of manpower involved.

Going yard-to-yard, which appears to be the main thing they are experimenting with in this trial, avoids most of these issues and actually seems like a feasible option, though, if the goal is avoiding congestion in the center of the city and reducing emissions.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 07:57 AM   #729
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The timetable for the Sōtetsu subway through the Shin-Yokohama area being pushed back is a little bad, but things around Hiyoshi station are still on track it seems.



The north side of the platforms that housed a closed off equipment room and HVAC equipment for the shopping mall above the station has been relocated and the Meguro Line platforms have been moved up by about 60 meters.

This is so the layover tracks can be bought closer into the station because the tracks for the Toyoko line need to be pushed over into the center of the right-of-way at the south end of the station so the inclines for the tunnel portals can be built.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 08:24 AM   #730
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Wait, so will Sotetsu trains run through to the Shonan-Shinjuku Line, or will they only allow passenger interchange at Hazawa, with trains running all the way to Nishi-takashimadaira or the Saitama Rapid Railway?
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Old September 11th, 2016, 12:09 PM   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
Wait, so will Sotetsu trains run through to the Shonan-Shinjuku Line, or will they only allow passenger interchange at Hazawa, with trains running all the way to Nishi-takashimadaira or the Saitama Rapid Railway?
Both, but the service frequency will be much higher on the Sotetsu-Tokyu link (10-14 tph peak, 4-6 tph offpeak), compared to the link with JR East (4 tph peak, 2-3 tph offpeak). Sotetsu is betting its future on these links to drive growth, and is currently building new high rise housing such as adjacent to Futamatagawa Station to attract buyers who will use Sotetsu train services to get to work in the urban core.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 12:13 PM   #732
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Wait, so will Sotetsu trains run through to the Shonan-Shinjuku Line, or will they only allow passenger interchange at Hazawa, with trains running all the way to Nishi-takashimadaira or the Saitama Rapid Railway?
They will interline and through run onto JR tracks at Hazawa.

What trains from JR will be through routed is a mystery though; Sōtetsu platforms can only handle 10 car trains and Shonan-Shinjuku trains are 15 cars while Yokohama line trains are 12. Also don't forget those double-decker green cars too.

Instead I could see them changing all the Saikyo Line trains that currently end at Shinjuku to continue onwards to Osaki, then onto Yokohama line tracks that way. Saikyo Line trains are only 10 or 8 cars IIRC.

On the other side of town, instead of Tokaido Line trains, they could reroute some of the Joban local line trains that end at Ueno further down the Ueno-Tokyo line and onto Yokosuka lime tracks at Shinagawa, since there's already 10 car trains that don't have green cars in their consists on that line. These are usually locals that end up on Tokyo Metro Chiyoda and Odakyu Odawara lines as well.

Sōtetsu's 10000 series are carbon copies of JR East's E233s so there's no issue there except maybe the motorman uses a T-stick instead of the left-hand throttle like JR so some training will be needed there.

Just thinking out loud folks!
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Old September 11th, 2016, 02:13 PM   #733
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I believe JR East trains will not run on Sagami Railway Line when the Sotetsu-JR link is ready to use. Only Sotetsu trains for Shibuya will use this new line.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 02:52 PM   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post
They will interline and through run onto JR tracks at Hazawa.

What trains from JR will be through routed is a mystery though; Sōtetsu platforms can only handle 10 car trains and Shonan-Shinjuku trains are 15 cars while Yokohama line trains are 12. Also don't forget those double-decker green cars too.

Instead I could see them changing all the Saikyo Line trains that currently end at Shinjuku to continue onwards to Osaki, then onto Yokohama line tracks that way. Saikyo Line trains are only 10 or 8 cars IIRC.

On the other side of town, instead of Tokaido Line trains, they could reroute some of the Joban local line trains that end at Ueno further down the Ueno-Tokyo line and onto Yokosuka lime tracks at Shinagawa, since there's already 10 car trains that don't have green cars in their consists on that line. These are usually locals that end up on Tokyo Metro Chiyoda and Odakyu Odawara lines as well.

Sōtetsu's 10000 series are carbon copies of JR East's E233s so there's no issue there except maybe the motorman uses a T-stick instead of the left-hand throttle like JR so some training will be needed there.

Just thinking out loud folks!
I was under the impression Shonan-Shinjuku Line trains are 10+5 car consists. So maybe the back 5 turn around at Hazawa, while the front 10 continue to Sotetsu, either with green car income on that section turned over to Sotetsu or something. But platform edge gates...

Or the 10-car set can turn at Hazawa, with the 5-car set waiting for another 5-car set to form a 10-car set for Sotetsu.

Extending Saikyo Line trains are also an option, but in that case I'd rather the rapids continue to Sotetsu while the locals serve the Rinkai Line. Or lastly, only Sotetsu trains continue onto the JR network and turn around at Shinjuku or Ikebukuro.

As for the Tokyu link, if Sotetsu runs 10 cars and the Meguro Line 6 cars, will new 6-car sets be procured to run onto Tokyu/Toei, or will Tokyu/Toei also be extending their platforms to take 10-car sets? Or will they all connect to the Toyoko Line instead?
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Old September 11th, 2016, 04:13 PM   #735
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All Meguro Line platforms (along with Namboku, Mita and Saitama Lines) can be retrofitted easily to handle 8 car trains (platform doors are there, just not operational.) I don't know if they can be bumped to 10 cars though...

Some stations like Hiyoshi, Musashi-Kosugi and others are easy; they share a long platform with the Toyoko line. Not sure about the rest.

They will definitely be sending trains up through the Meguro Line though; Toyoko line can't handle additional traffic with its current interlining schedule, And they want to send 10tph into Hiyoshi so I imagine some of those would be trains that would normally start at Kikuna and end at Shibuya or Shinjuku 3-chome on the Toyoko line.

Also let's not forget that there's a pocket track in the plans for Shin-Yokohama. This means trains will start/terminate there as well, so Sōtetsu won't be getting all those trains either.

Last edited by starrwulfe; September 11th, 2016 at 04:26 PM.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #736
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As Starrwulfe mentioned, the Toyoko Line currently is restricted in terms of taking on additional traffic, as there aren't many places where timed overtakes can occur. Tokyu is building a center bi-directional passing track at Yutenji now though, which will help the situation between Jiyugaoka and Shibuya at least.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 05:02 PM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
...
Anything much larger than parcels in bulk or volume—i.e., what we might typically associate with freight—seems somewhat problematic, since none of the trains or stations would be designed to handle that in terms of being able to quickly load from or off-load onto the platform and then have it sit there until someone can process it, much less be able to move it up or down to street level. Even in the news video, there was a fair amount of manpower involved.
This kind of service was tested several years ago on the Sapporo City Tozai Line. It was deemed feasible, but not particularly profitable- volume required to be profitable,or at least break even, was deemed to be 1000 to 1500 packages a day, levels which could not be reached. And even if such volume was achieved, it would come against the problem you mentioned, of moving the packages to street level, namely using elevators.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 05:14 PM   #738
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As Starrwulfe mentioned, the Toyoko Line currently is restricted in terms of taking on additional traffic, as there aren't many places where timed overtakes can occur. Tokyu is building a center bi-directional passing track at Yutenji now though, which will help the situation between Jiyugaoka and Shibuya at least.
IMO they really missed an opportunity with the Fukutoshin Line - it could have been built like the subways in NYC, with four tracks - one pair for F-Liner and express trains, the other for all-stops local trains.

Same can probably be done for the Toyoko Line - reinstate the Mekama Line service, with trains from Meguro continuing onto the Tamagawa Line, and then you have an additional pair of tracks between Tamagawa and Hiyoshi that can be used for overtakes or more.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 05:28 PM   #739
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Quad tracking the Fukutoshin line would have been financially impossible, and likely also engineering-wise- the standard two track bore needed to be shoehorned between/over/under existing lines and other underground obstacles. The New York subway is a very old system that had the luxury (in hindsight) of having such construction built when it was feasible, with cut and cover methods.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 05:42 PM   #740
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Same can probably be done for the Toyoko Line - reinstate the Mekama Line service, with trains from Meguro continuing onto the Tamagawa Line, and then you have an additional pair of tracks between Tamagawa and Hiyoshi that can be used for overtakes or more.
This is impossible since Tamagawa line trains are all 3 car trains and have super small platforms all the way to Kamata.
Overtaking already happens at Motosumiyoshi station anyway since there are an outside pair of tracks for Toyoko expresses to use.
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