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Old November 5th, 2016, 10:30 AM   #861
luacstjh98
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There's a certain type of charm in the powerpoint-quality signs that they stickered over... feels like home for me.

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JR can't begin construction on their platform realignments at Shibuya station until after the Ginza Line can be relocated to its new station over Meiji-Dori. This will probably mean that they will be using the new station in a very unfinished state until everything comes together just before the Olympics in 2020.
What's the rough timeline of those works? (and roughly how long does it take to build a regular station in Japan?)
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Old November 5th, 2016, 10:46 AM   #862
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Well they are anticipating having the total station construction completed in the first part of 2020. That would mean that we'd see the Ginza Line platform go into operation around 2018 at the latest for JR to be able to do what they need to do.

This also means the Tokyu Department Store there would need to get demolished at the same time.

Its hard to say how long a station takes to construct here; technically Shibuya has been under reconstruction since 2006 when they broke ground on the Fukutoshin Line.
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Old November 6th, 2016, 01:51 PM   #863
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Pictures of the work at Shibuya Ginza Line station.

source: https://twitter.com/8000_express/sta...11881614962692







Before situation, last month taken by me.


IMG_5881 by Momo1435, on Flickr
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Old November 12th, 2016, 04:41 AM   #864
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Trains of Tokyo & Yokohama.

It has been 4½ years since I presented my show to the Central Electric Railfans' Association. It was about trains in Tokyo and Yokohama, Japan. I publicized it using the title, "I Shot J. R. (& Keikyu, Keio, Odakyu, et alia)"; which was a twist on the then-recent revival of the 1980s television show "Dallas", and its protagonist | antagonist J. R. Ewing.
This was seemingly a bit too much for Tony Coppoletta, who was the emcee of C.E.R.A. programs in 2012. He publicized it as "Trains of Tokyo and Yokohama". Whatever. I lost a substantial portion of my audience when the 'closing event' of Chicago Craft Beer Week occurred at the same time on the same evening (Friday) (even though the
calendar showed CCBW extending through to Sunday
). (As a fan of craftbeer, I also would have wanted to attend that 'closing event'.) But it was a good show. To illustrate that, I have now uploaded all the photographs I showed that night, and included the script in which I described the photographs.
Some of these photographs can no longer be replicated. (The grade crossing in Shimo-Kitazawa has been eliminated.)
The file has gone off-line a few times. After an incident at December 2014's C.E.R.A. show, in which we had a delay due to technical problems; I was actually asked if there was something I could show while we were trying to fix it. My answer was 'no', because I didn't have that USB flash drive with me then. [We did fix it.]
We had an internet connection. I remembered uploading this. When I went to the site of the last uploader I had utilized, the file had rinsed off.
So I decided to upload it again just in case we had another technical snag.
The file is 24.23 MB.
My photographs are Creative Commons - Attribution - NonCommercial - ShareAlike BY-NC-SA. Essentially, you can do whatever you wish with them, including making derivative works of them, as long as you do not try to make any money from doing so.
The file is now uploaded here.
The link should include the download key. If it doesn't, it is 8124.
The .rar password is "Keikyu_via_Sengakuji" {without the quotes}.
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Old November 19th, 2016, 10:28 AM   #865
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update from the 1st day of the 2nd weekend with construction work on the Ginza Line Shibuya Station.





https://twitter.com/Nambu5102F/statu...79774126546945
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Old November 20th, 2016, 08:04 PM   #866
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And a shot into the tunnel, which shows the new S curve in the tracks after the realignment on the viaduct.



https://twitter.com/satotakes/status/800252470018457601


Interestingly enough the work done during the 2 weekends with the station closed was to realign the tracks into the possition of the future new Island platform.

http://www.tokyometro.jp/ginza/topics/20161026_71.html







On the south side you can already see where in the future the track will be. Now they can start to work on widening the viaduct on the north side. This will mean that there will be more closures of the line in the next couple of years. It's going to be interesting to see how many different temporary platform lay-outs will be used before tracks are aligned into the final end situation with the island platform.
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Old November 20th, 2016, 08:37 PM   #867
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That S-curve seems rather sharp for a new-build. Is it permanent?
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Old November 21st, 2016, 10:11 AM   #868
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This was taken a few months back during my first visit to Tokyo
20160702-JKH_0569-Edit by Jackson Hung, on Flickr

20160701-JKH_0557-Edit by Jackson Hung, on Flickr
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Old November 21st, 2016, 10:48 AM   #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post


Well they are anticipating having the total station construction completed in the first part of 2020. That would mean that we'd see the Ginza Line platform go into operation around 2018 at the latest for JR to be able to do what they need to do.

This also means the Tokyu Department Store there would need to get demolished at the same time.

Its hard to say how long a station takes to construct here; technically Shibuya has been under reconstruction since 2006 when they broke ground on the Fukutoshin Line.
But the configuration will be the same as now wherein the Shibuya terminal will be overground rather than being sent underground, similar to the other lines? I mean, I'm curious as to what can happen for the Ginza Line beyond Shibuya since it seems to be permanently under redevelopment. And is there even an opportunity for Tokyo Metro to expand the Ginza Line further west?
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Old November 21st, 2016, 11:45 AM   #870
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I believe the reason Shibuya on the Ginza Line is overground is because the station is located in a depression. Either way, short of squeezing above the Fukutoshin Line, I doubt there is any space for an underground Shibuya terminal within the main area of the station.

Also, it could go west, through the existing train depot, but where could it go after that? I actually had the idea of through-service with the Keio Inokashira Line, which ALSO terminates at Shibuya, but it just seems too much trouble, with the need to procure new rolling stock or install new electrification, and regauging the Inokashira Line.
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Old November 21st, 2016, 01:52 PM   #871
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Ginza Shibuya is overground because it was built before tunneling tech made it easier and cheaper to dig deeper. The Shibuya river used to be right next to the old Shibuya Kokutetsu station. It's all completely underground now though.

The Inokashira line was a separate tram/interurban at that time on the other side of Shibuya station that was originally built by a division of Odakyu. It then became Keio's during the 6merging and subsequent splitting of the Great Tokyu Corporation during WWII.

As a frequent user of both lines, it would be super convenient to have Ginza- Inokashira through services to get to places like Omotesando, Shimbashi and more.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 09:49 PM   #872
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I had never seen this, the Tokyo Monorail with snowplows/brooms.




https://twitter.com/1_z/status/801626050220335105
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Old November 26th, 2016, 02:52 AM   #873
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As a frequent user of both lines, it would be super convenient to have Ginza- Inokashira through services to get to places like Omotesando, Shimbashi and more.
That would be a bit difficult with the Ginza line utilzing the third rail system.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 07:25 AM   #874
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Ginza Shibuya is overground because it was built before tunneling tech made it easier and cheaper to dig deeper. The Shibuya river used to be right next to the old Shibuya Kokutetsu station. It's all completely underground now though.

The Inokashira line was a separate tram/interurban at that time on the other side of Shibuya station that was originally built by a division of Odakyu. It then became Keio's during the 6merging and subsequent splitting of the Great Tokyu Corporation during WWII.

As a frequent user of both lines, it would be super convenient to have Ginza- Inokashira through services to get to places like Omotesando, Shimbashi and more.
You know what I realized? Interconnecting the Ginza and Inokashira Lines can be challenging because their gauges are completely different to each other:

- Ginza Line runs on a standard (1,435mm) gauge, with a DC output of 600 volts and runs on 6-car trains
- Keio Inokashira Line runs on a narrow (1,067mm) gauge, with a DC output of 1,500 volts and runs on 5-car trains

For trains to run on both lines, the rails on both lines should be upgraded to allow multiple gauges through the connector. Not to mention, the platform lengths for the latter may need to be extended to accommodate the longer trains of the Ginza Line. Finally, the difference in DC voltages could cause problems when trains switch between systems -- that will require either a unified electric voltage for both lines (either go for third rail or overhead, in which I choose the former), or we can elect to develop trains that will allow to operate smoothly with different voltages when switching lines.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 02:50 PM   #875
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You know what I realized? Interconnecting the Ginza and Inokashira Lines can be challenging because their gauges are completely different to each other:

- Ginza Line runs on a standard (1,435mm) gauge, with a DC output of 600 volts and runs on 6-car trains
- Keio Inokashira Line runs on a narrow (1,067mm) gauge, with a DC output of 1,500 volts and runs on 5-car trains

For trains to run on both lines, the rails on both lines should be upgraded to allow multiple gauges through the connector. Not to mention, the platform lengths for the latter may need to be extended to accommodate the longer trains of the Ginza Line. Finally, the difference in DC voltages could cause problems when trains switch between systems -- that will require either a unified electric voltage for both lines (either go for third rail or overhead, in which I choose the former), or we can elect to develop trains that will allow to operate smoothly with different voltages when switching lines.
Ginza Line trains are 16m x 6 cars, Inokashira Line trains are 20m x 5 cars, so it's only a handful of metres difference. And if they were serious about through-running the much older Inokashira Line trains would be replaced with new trainsets of 16m x 6 cars.

Of course, other enabling works would include regauging the Inokashira Line to standard gauge, and pushing out the Inokashira Line's platforms to accommodate the narrower Ginza Line trains.

In London, Thameslink trains switch between 25kV OHLE to 750V DC in Farringdon station, which is dual-equipped for this purpose, so the same policy can be applied at Shibuya to allow both lines to retain their electrification systems.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 04:37 PM   #876
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The whole car length thing is negligible; Hibiya Line trains will go from 8 16m 3 door cars to 7 20m 4 door cars in the next 3 years.

Wouldn't be hard to put 3rd rail shoes *and* pantographs with a voltage switch on a train either. It's that gauge change that's the cost factor.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 05:00 PM   #877
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Indeed. I would call that the single real factor preventing it. Everything else can be overcome in a reasonably cost-effective manner.

Personally, I would try to go for the 20 m rolling stock, since that is what the rest of the system is standardizing on. The still-new Ginza equipment can be moved to the Maranouchi.

First thing to do, in my opinion, would be to make a list of all of the things on the Ginza Line preventing through operation (clearance-wise). Then, slowly go through and pull them back (with temporary extensions for the platforms) as the tunnels get rehabilitated. Once that is accomplished, lay a third rail through the tunnels and string wire/solid conductor rails overhead. Then swap the whole thing over in a weekend.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #878
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Clearance is a serious issue; I think there's 3½m max in the older section between Asakusa and Shimbashi. Inokashira trains need a bit more even with pantographs squeezed down (those tunnels between Shinsen and Komazawa-Todai are bored.)

Other than that, Inokashira trains are 5 car 20m 4 door that would work, except there's no cab end doors and that's a requirement for Tokyo Metro operation. So yeah, there'd need to be some new equipment.

Don't think we'll ever see this happen though; part of the Ginza Line renovations involves platform doors for all stations.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 09:13 PM   #879
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With the Ginza line being the oldest metro line Tokyo it might not be right line to be extended, it would not make technical and economical sense. It could be a better idea to extend the Inokashira into central Tokyo with a completely new metro line, possibly connecting Shibuya with Roppongi. And possibly to the JR Keiyo line. Which is an intra Tokyo connection I have proposed earlier, but is mainly connecting the dots without knowing if it's a smart link up based on current traffic numbers.

It does mean that some parts of the Inokashira will need to be modified. It's already a line that was fairly grade separated from the start. It was ahead of it's time at the opening of the line with very few crossings. It needs a bit more work to make longer trains possible. The line could even be extended on the other end beyond Kichijoji northwards into Saitama. But then I'm really letting my imagination run away from reality.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 04:15 AM   #880
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With the Ginza line being the oldest metro line Tokyo it might not be right line to be extended, it would not make technical and economical sense. It could be a better idea to extend the Inokashira into central Tokyo with a completely new metro line, possibly connecting Shibuya with Roppongi. And possibly to the JR Keiyo line. Which is an intra Tokyo connection I have proposed earlier, but is mainly connecting the dots without knowing if it's a smart link up based on current traffic numbers.

It does mean that some parts of the Inokashira will need to be modified. It's already a line that was fairly grade separated from the start. It was ahead of it's time at the opening of the line with very few crossings. It needs a bit more work to make longer trains possible. The line could even be extended on the other end beyond Kichijoji northwards into Saitama. But then I'm really letting my imagination run away from reality.
Didn't the Tokyo Metropolitan Government float the idea of a "Keiyo Bypass Line" via Shinjuku a while back allowing trains to proceed to the Chuo Line?

Theoretically a junction could be built at Kichijoji for such maneuvres, then perhaps JR + Keio could form a third-sector company to run the Tokyo Station-Shibuya stretch, or Keio could build and operate the line, giving it access to Tokyo Station. And perhaps the Inokashira Line could get the Beeching axe treatment if it runs full 10-car sets, where every other station or something like that is closed.

Of course, it goes without saying that through-running arrangements should be negotiated.
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