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Old November 27th, 2016, 07:42 AM   #881
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Now we're really floating away from reality.

The Inokashira line is almost exactly like Tokyu's Oimachi Line but even more constrained in how they could upgrade it to run faster with longer trains.

For example, there are many grade crossings and lots are at the very ends of the platforms. A street would have to be closed .

The ROW is right next to houses or streets so property would need to be taken in order to do any kind of construction.

The line runs along the surface for the majority of its route except the last stretch of track near Shibuya station and the aerial structure for Kichijoji Station. Kichijoji terminal T-bones right into the JR concourse just like it does at Mark City at the other end.


Now remember also that Chuo Rapid trains will be getting 2 extra cars (double-decked green cars) starting in FY2018 making them 12 cars instead of today's 10. Clearance would be an issue on the Inokashira line even if the other mitigating factors were to disappear.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 07:47 AM   #882
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Maybe in another 50 years or so but for now constructing a connection between Ginza line and Inogashira line renovating Shibuya Mark City building will reek havoc closing down the street and disrupting the people moving from one end to the other.

What they can do is go under ground from Shibuya Shinsen station and connect with the Hanzomon line and divide lines at Omotesando station interconnecting with the Ginza line.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 09:31 AM   #883
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This, to me, has become an even more interesting discussion than before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
Ginza Line trains are 16m x 6 cars, Inokashira Line trains are 20m x 5 cars, so it's only a handful of metres difference. And if they were serious about through-running the much older Inokashira Line trains would be replaced with new trainsets of 16m x 6 cars.

Of course, other enabling works would include regauging the Inokashira Line to standard gauge, and pushing out the Inokashira Line's platforms to accommodate the narrower Ginza Line trains.

In London, Thameslink trains switch between 25kV OHLE to 750V DC in Farringdon station, which is dual-equipped for this purpose, so the same policy can be applied at Shibuya to allow both lines to retain their electrification systems.
Given the train lengths are minimal:

Ginza: 16m x 6 = 96m
Inokashira: 20m x 5 = 100m

I can see no problem sending the Inokashira train through the Ginza Line to continue to Asakusa. However, the main concern remains a gauge change for the former since it will require wider clearance than today (1,435mm vs 1,067mm). And I also wonder if the Keio Inokashira train will fit through the Ginza Line tunnels, especially that it operates with overhead wires instead of electric third-rail... perhaps converting it from overhead to third-rail will further increase the cost of upgrading it and interline to the Ginza Line.

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Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post
The whole car length thing is negligible; Hibiya Line trains will go from 8 16m 3 door cars to 7 20m 4 door cars in the next 3 years.

Wouldn't be hard to put 3rd rail shoes *and* pantographs with a voltage switch on a train either. It's that gauge change that's the cost factor.
Right. And by the way, is the Inokashira Line double-tracked the entire way? If both Inokashira and Ginza Lines interline at Shibuya, it will introduce limited-stop services on the latter since the former already does it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post
Clearance is a serious issue; I think there's 3½m max in the older section between Asakusa and Shimbashi. Inokashira trains need a bit more even with pantographs squeezed down (those tunnels between Shinsen and Komazawa-Todai are bored.)

Other than that, Inokashira trains are 5 car 20m 4 door that would work, except there's no cab end doors and that's a requirement for Tokyo Metro operation. So yeah, there'd need to be some new equipment.

Don't think we'll ever see this happen though; part of the Ginza Line renovations involves platform doors for all stations.
Is there an inkling of possibility that Inokashira Line stations will receive platform doors too? I mean, with Keio, I have not seen any platform doors installed yet...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
With the Ginza line being the oldest metro line Tokyo it might not be right line to be extended, it would not make technical and economical sense. It could be a better idea to extend the Inokashira into central Tokyo with a completely new metro line, possibly connecting Shibuya with Roppongi. And possibly to the JR Keiyo line. Which is an intra Tokyo connection I have proposed earlier, but is mainly connecting the dots without knowing if it's a smart link up based on current traffic numbers.

It does mean that some parts of the Inokashira will need to be modified. It's already a line that was fairly grade separated from the start. It was ahead of it's time at the opening of the line with very few crossings. It needs a bit more work to make longer trains possible. The line could even be extended on the other end beyond Kichijoji northwards into Saitama. But then I'm really letting my imagination run away from reality.
Between Shibuya and Tokyo Stations, though, how will you route that new train line underground to connect the two terminals? Perhaps a side benefit of this idea would be a potential decongestion of the Chuo-Sobu Line between Kichijoji and Nishi-Funabashi (via Musashino Line) by providing a secondary semi-loop line through Central Tokyo. This is similar to the complementary service between:

- Chuo-Sobu Line between Mitaka and Nishi-Funabashi via Shinjuku, Akihabara, and Kinshicho
- Tokyo Metro Tozai Line between Nakano and Nishi-Funabashi via Iidabashi, Otemachi, and Urayasu

Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
Didn't the Tokyo Metropolitan Government float the idea of a "Keiyo Bypass Line" via Shinjuku a while back allowing trains to proceed to the Chuo Line?

Theoretically a junction could be built at Kichijoji for such maneuvres, then perhaps JR + Keio could form a third-sector company to run the Tokyo Station-Shibuya stretch, or Keio could build and operate the line, giving it access to Tokyo Station. And perhaps the Inokashira Line could get the Beeching axe treatment if it runs full 10-car sets, where every other station or something like that is closed.

Of course, it goes without saying that through-running arrangements should be negotiated.
The Keiyo Line runs on 10-car sets, with some trains continuing much further east to serve the Boso Peninsula. The Inokashira Line, on the other hand, pretty much serves a more localized area between Shibuya and Kichijoji. If we are to develop the Inokashira Line further in preparation for a potential extension to the Keiyo Line, we will need to develop:

- New subway stations between Shibuya and Tokyo stations
- Station expansion plans for all Inokashira Line stations
- Station redevelopment plan for Shibuya all over again to accommodate a potential railway extension
- Fleet redevelopment plans to accommodate both JR and Keio systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by starrwulfe View Post

Now we're really floating away from reality.

The Inokashira line is almost exactly like Tokyu's Oimachi Line but even more constrained in how they could upgrade it to run faster with longer trains.

For example, there are many grade crossings and lots are at the very ends of the platforms. A street would have to be closed .

The ROW is right next to houses or streets so property would need to be taken in order to do any kind of construction.

The line runs along the surface for the majority of its route except the last stretch of track near Shibuya station and the aerial structure for Kichijoji Station. Kichijoji terminal T-bones right into the JR concourse just like it does at Mark City at the other end.


Now remember also that Chuo Rapid trains will be getting 2 extra cars (double-decked green cars) starting in FY2018 making them 12 cars instead of today's 10. Clearance would be an issue on the Inokashira line even if the other mitigating factors were to disappear.
Is it then possible to reduce or eliminate all grade crossings, especially if we want to develop faster services on the Inokashira Line? I mean, it already has an express train service operating daily, but, with shorter train lengths and the potential for further growth, maybe it's time to look at elevating tracks or sending the rails underground...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Maybe in another 50 years or so but for now constructing a connection between Ginza line and Inogashira line renovating Shibuya Mark City building will reek havoc closing down the street and disrupting the people moving from one end to the other.

What they can do is go under ground from Shibuya Shinsen station and connect with the Hanzomon line and divide lines at Omotesando station interconnecting with the Ginza line.
Man, that's a lot of processes right there! Can we streamline operations then, such that the platforms for the Ginza, Inokashira, Hanzomon, and Den-en-Toshi Lines can be unified underground and promote quicker interline transfers? I mean, one of the major challenges I can foresee with this would be its distance from the Fukutoshin, Toyoko, and JR Line platforms, especially if we involve switching floors.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 10:33 AM   #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
This, to me, has become an even more interesting discussion than before...

Man, that's a lot of processes right there! Can we streamline operations then, such that the platforms for the Ginza, Inokashira, Hanzomon, and Den-en-Toshi Lines can be unified underground and promote quicker interline transfers? I mean, one of the major challenges I can foresee with this would be its distance from the Fukutoshin, Toyoko, and JR Line platforms, especially if we involve switching floors.
Ok here is the layout of the subterranean floors.



I am not sure about the under ground lifelines that is buried around there but the Denentoshi/Hanzomon Shibuya station is underneath the main road heading up Miyamasuzaka so I believe there is enough room to expand for two possibly three platforms. This way it can relieve some congestion we see today. The people transferring from the Toyoko/Fukutoshin line to Ginza line will surely benefit and the people transferring from the Inogashira line to Ginza line/Fukutoshin line will also see the benefit as well as the ones commuting on the Dentoshi line.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 12:33 PM   #885
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Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Right. And by the way, is the Inokashira Line double-tracked the entire way? If both Inokashira and Ginza Lines interline at Shibuya, it will introduce limited-stop services on the latter since the former already does it.
Tokyo Metro only does limited-stop services on the Tozai and Fukutoshin lines, the rest aren't built for it IIRC.

All trains will be local within the Ginza Line even if there's interlining, end of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Between Shibuya and Tokyo Stations, though, how will you route that new train line underground to connect the two terminals? Perhaps a side benefit of this idea would be a potential decongestion of the Chuo-Sobu Line between Kichijoji and Nishi-Funabashi (via Musashino Line) by providing a secondary semi-loop line through Central Tokyo. This is similar to the complementary service between:

- Chuo-Sobu Line between Mitaka and Nishi-Funabashi via Shinjuku, Akihabara, and Kinshicho
- Tokyo Metro Tozai Line between Nakano and Nishi-Funabashi via Iidabashi, Otemachi, and Urayasu

The Keiyo Line runs on 10-car sets, with some trains continuing much further east to serve the Boso Peninsula. The Inokashira Line, on the other hand, pretty much serves a more localized area between Shibuya and Kichijoji. If we are to develop the Inokashira Line further in preparation for a potential extension to the Keiyo Line, we will need to develop:

- New subway stations between Shibuya and Tokyo stations
- Station expansion plans for all Inokashira Line stations
- Station redevelopment plan for Shibuya all over again to accommodate a potential railway extension
- Fleet redevelopment plans to accommodate both JR and Keio systems

Is it then possible to reduce or eliminate all grade crossings, especially if we want to develop faster services on the Inokashira Line? I mean, it already has an express train service operating daily, but, with shorter train lengths and the potential for further growth, maybe it's time to look at elevating tracks or sending the rails underground...
I would run such a line under Shuto Expressway route 3.
  • Shibuya (new station)
  • Minamiaoyama 7-chome (new station)
  • Roppongi (Hibiya)
  • Roppongi 1-chome (Namboku)
  • Kokkai-gijidomae/Tameike-Sanno (Namboku, Ginza, Marunouchi, Chiyoda)
  • Sakuradamon (Yurakucho)
  • Tokyo Station (Keiyo Line)

Immediately after Shinsen station, the Inokashira Line enters a tunnel, so perhaps the tunnel could be diverted to the new Shibuya station, with transfer from Hanzomon/Denentoshi lines via the Fukutoshin Line platforms. Passengers coming from JR can also use a new transfer via the existing south exit.

Anyway, if we're considering grade-separating, the new stations on the grade-separated lines can already be built for 10-car trains from the beginning. Killing two birds with one stone, eh? And again, lengthening trainsets to 10 cars would perhaps make some stations redundant, resulting in a net reduction of stations on the line. Anyway, as far as I'm aware the Tokyo Metropolitan Government and other prefectural authorities are already slowly but surely eliminating grade crossings in the Greater Tokyo area anyway...

An E233 is also about only 3 inches wider than the Inokashira Line 1000 series, so perhaps Inokashira Line platforms can be shaved back. Besides that, standardization in the Tokyo area would make it easier for JR to run to the Inokashira Line than for the Ginza Line to do so. And since the loading gauge is the same, I really don't think there's a big difference between double-decker E233 cars and single-decker ones, are there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Man, that's a lot of processes right there! Can we streamline operations then, such that the platforms for the Ginza, Inokashira, Hanzomon, and Den-en-Toshi Lines can be unified underground and promote quicker interline transfers? I mean, one of the major challenges I can foresee with this would be its distance from the Fukutoshin, Toyoko, and JR Line platforms, especially if we involve switching floors.
Theoretically yes, practically no.

You could have complicated four-way interlining, but you'd need some kind of crazy junction a la Camden Town at the LU Northern Line, and you'd need to keep all three companies' lines running while you build said junction. The better way is to split the lines, like at Kita-senju where JR only goes to the Chiyoda Line and Tobu to the Hibiya Line.

And who's going to maintain such a complicated junction? (as a third sector railway?)

Also, the separate loading gauge and electrification would mean that you'd need to string catenary to Omotesando, and make sure a train has third rail before it's allowed to enter the Ginza line from there.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
Tokyo Metro only does limited-stop services on the Tozai and Fukutoshin lines, the rest aren't built for it IIRC.

All trains will be local within the Ginza Line even if there's interlining, end of story.
I mean the Ginza Line will remain local, yes. But the interlining with the Inokashira Line will allow limited-stop through trains in the process. Now that would sound like either:

- Local Inokashira to/from Local Ginza
- Express Inokashira to/from Local Ginza

Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
I would run such a line under Shuto Expressway route 3.
  • Shibuya (new station)
  • Minamiaoyama 7-chome (new station)
  • Roppongi (Hibiya)
  • Roppongi 1-chome (Namboku)
  • Kokkai-gijidomae/Tameike-Sanno (Namboku, Ginza, Marunouchi, Chiyoda)
  • Sakuradamon (Yurakucho)
  • Tokyo Station (Keiyo Line)

Immediately after Shinsen station, the Inokashira Line enters a tunnel, so perhaps the tunnel could be diverted to the new Shibuya station, with transfer from Hanzomon/Denentoshi lines via the Fukutoshin Line platforms. Passengers coming from JR can also use a new transfer via the existing south exit.
If that's the case, will that line be run by JR or another company (e.g. Tokyo Metro, Toei, Keio)? And I may want to compare the trains again to see how we can move forward since the two lines run with the same gauge:

- Keio 1000 series: 20m x 5
- JR East E233 series: 20m x (depending on the number of cars)

Interestingly, the trains used on the Keiyo Line can be configured into either 4- (80m), 6- (120m), or 10-car (200m) trains, which, if placed alongside the Keio 1000 trains, may have identical door alignments for boarding and disembarking. Do you think, though, that the Inokashira Line will be able to handle 10-car trains in the process, or do we have to start with 6-car trains as a trial to see how many more passengers will be attracted to this proposal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
Anyway, if we're considering grade-separating, the new stations on the grade-separated lines can already be built for 10-car trains from the beginning. Killing two birds with one stone, eh? And again, lengthening trainsets to 10 cars would perhaps make some stations redundant, resulting in a net reduction of stations on the line. Anyway, as far as I'm aware the Tokyo Metropolitan Government and other prefectural authorities are already slowly but surely eliminating grade crossings in the Greater Tokyo area anyway...

An E233 is also about only 3 inches wider than the Inokashira Line 1000 series, so perhaps Inokashira Line platforms can be shaved back. Besides that, standardization in the Tokyo area would make it easier for JR to run to the Inokashira Line than for the Ginza Line to do so. And since the loading gauge is the same, I really don't think there's a big difference between double-decker E233 cars and single-decker ones, are there?
Yes, killing two birds with one stone is what you're thinking right there. However, with the station reductions needed to give way to the 10-car trains, which stations along the Inokashira may be eliminated for this cause? And how much more expensive would it be to elevate the tracks to achieve faster speeds on the Inokashira Line (currently with a speed limit of 90kph)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
Theoretically yes, practically no.

You could have complicated four-way interlining, but you'd need some kind of crazy junction a la Camden Town at the LU Northern Line, and you'd need to keep all three companies' lines running while you build said junction. The better way is to split the lines, like at Kita-senju where JR only goes to the Chiyoda Line and Tobu to the Hibiya Line.

And who's going to maintain such a complicated junction? (as a third sector railway?)

Also, the separate loading gauge and electrification would mean that you'd need to string catenary to Omotesando, and make sure a train has third rail before it's allowed to enter the Ginza line from there.
Here's the idea I have in mind:

The main debate is, on which floor would that be best aligned with: Basement 4, Basement 6, or Basement 7? Judging by the current layout, it seems that Basements 1 and 2 are already built up with shops that the first railway line down would be the Hanzomon/Den-en-Toshi Line combination on Basement 3, followed by a mostly concourse space on Basement 4, and then the Fukutoshin/Toyoko Line combination (plus Minato-Mirai, Seibu, and Tobu lines). With the layout I have, I think that would force Tokyo Metro to set back the Ginza Line by up to 8 floors down just to reach the platforms (which could come at a hefty price tag) while, at the same time, Keio could move their station underground to line up with the Ginza Line and future JR Keiyo Line connection.

And now we're talking up to 7 floors down, how much gradient do you want to do to make it up to the level of the Keiyo Line at Tokyo Station? Do you want it to be a gentle gradient (around 2 to 3 percent) or a slightly steep one (at around 7 to 8 percent) between at least two or three stations? Also, would you like some train sidings for the JR and Keio trains too immediately south or southwest of the station for staging, especially during the rush hours?
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Old November 28th, 2016, 10:11 AM   #887
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Much as you and I (and the average Japanese commuter) would like that to happen, NO. And you speak like you haven't been to Shibuya Station before, so...

IIRC there's a small train maintenance facility west of Shibuya on the Ginza Line, that's on the third floor. So if we aren't routing any through trains onto the Ginza Line, it must stay at the third floor, or Tokyo Metro could move this facility (though honestly IDK where they could put it)

I do hear that the new Tokyu buildings will allow passengers to reach the JR and Ginza lines more conveniently from the underground section, though, and many Ginza line passengers already change to the Hanzomon Line at Omotesando to get them to the basements of the Shibuya complex. Likewise, Hanzomon Line passengers use the Ginza Line if they're headed towards JR.

Also, unlike London where everyone shares the same Oyster PAYG standard and fare structure, Japanese railways still have farezones isolated from each other, so cross-platform interchange between two separate networks is still mostly going to be a pipe dream if you ask me.

At most, you can have your four platforms 7-10, but those are going to be solely for the Inokashira/Keiyo Lines. Expect there to be transfer gates between this section of the complex, and the Tokyo Metro section. And unless the Shibuya-Tokyo section is run by JR East or some third-sector railway, there will also most likely be transfer gates between the Keiyo/Inokashira Lines and the other JR lines above.

Thirdly, we're talking about the main road to the south of the existing underground complex at Shibuya, so I think it would be alright to put platforms at basement 3 there. As for additional stabling, I'm not sure what the Japanese practice is, but I would think that more trains would just be injected from the respective depots, or put in the unused platforms at Tokyo (and Shibuya, if 4 platforms are built).
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Old November 28th, 2016, 02:36 PM   #888
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The only context in which linking the Ginza and Inokashira lines could work is during redevelopment of Mark City at the same time as a continuous grade separation project on the Inokashira line. And then, basically, the Inokashira could be completely rebuilt as an elevated line to the exact specs of the ginza line in terms of rail gauge, loading gauge, third rail, voltage, platform height, fare collection, rolling stock, and all. The tight clearances and sharp curves on the Ginza line cause it to be the primary factor. The only departure from Ginza Line standards would probably be to build the platforms on the inokashira portion to be longer, say 128m (8 cars) or 160m (10 cars) in case platforms on the Ginza line can ever be extended.

So in all this would be very convenient for riders of the Inokashira line but I can't see this happening less than 30 years from now.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 03:13 PM   #889
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The only context in which linking the Ginza and Inokashira lines could work is during redevelopment of Mark City at the same time as a continuous grade separation project on the Inokashira line. And then, basically, the Inokashira could be completely rebuilt as an elevated line to the exact specs of the ginza line in terms of rail gauge, loading gauge, third rail, voltage, platform height, fare collection, rolling stock, and all. The tight clearances and sharp curves on the Ginza line cause it to be the primary factor. The only departure from Ginza Line standards would probably be to build the platforms on the inokashira portion to be longer, say 128m (8 cars) or 160m (10 cars) in case platforms on the Ginza line can ever be extended.

So in all this would be very convenient for riders of the Inokashira line but I can't see this happening less than 30 years from now.
How about extending the Keiyo Line?

Since we know that the Keiyo Line runs 6+4 car sets, the 4-car portion can terminate at Shibuya or Tokyo Station while the 6-car portion continues to the Inokashira Line. I think it would also help improve access to the Keiyo Line from the Shibuya/Shinjuku area.

And we also know that the TMG were looking at options for the Keiyo Line...
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Old November 29th, 2016, 03:33 PM   #890
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I thought the Keiyo line was planned for a big deep tunnel connection to the Chuo line at Mitaka or some such. This is due to its origin as the originally planned underground right-of-way for the Chuo Shinkansen. The Inokashira line has the same endpoint so it would make some sense, but I think (thought) the whole point of that connection was to have a super express connection from the western suburbs to the eastern Tokyo CBD, something which doesn't exist today. Inokashira line
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Old November 29th, 2016, 05:09 PM   #891
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WOW.

I'm super impressed with all the people in this thread. I only get to have discussions like this with a few train nuts IRL here in Tokyo every once-in-a-while...

Most of the stuff I was gonna say about the Inokashira line being a not-so-good idea to use when thru-routing trains off the Chuo line was said above.

I also want to point out that anything NEW that will run into the Shibuya crossing area will need to be somewhere along the lines of level B8 or so because there is a crazy amount of underground infrastructure there. Remember there are building foundations, several train lines, pedestrian tunnels and car parks along with the sub-basements of buildings and a ginormous underground river and resevior complex for the Shibuya river to prevent it from flooding. Remember the reason for the deep valley that the station sits in is because that river cut through it and whenever it rains, pretty much all of Shibuya-ku, and Shinjuku-ku's run-off goes through there. In other words, A new station will be like most stations on the Toei Oedo line where you're basically crawling out of the pits of hell its so deep.


My proposal would be to instead make the Ginza line and Inokashira line share their elevated station together and allow cross platform transfers. This is kinda how things will work when all the buildings are completed by 2027; from the west end of the Ginza line platform (now an island) one will walk on the same level straight west about 170m to the Inokashira platforms. I just propose to somehow bring them both much closer to each other so all that's needed is at most a double train length and some change walk from one train to the other. Don't think it'll happen without some serious modifications to the plans though, but who knows...

As for the "super tunnel" connecting the JR Chuo-Rapid to the Keiyo line, it was proposed to split off somewhere just after Mitaka station, dive underground and only have stops at Shinjuku and Yotsuya stations before Tokyo Station, roughly paralleling (it not running directly under at times) the Marunouchi line. Of course, it too will need to be REALLY deep, especially at Shinjuku station in order to cross the Oedo, Fukutoshin and Shinjuku lines, all of which are really deep around there to cross each other; remember here the Fukutoshin line threads the needle in order to go below the Marunouchi line, but stay above the Shinjuku line, coming to within 10 meters of both of them when the tunnel was bored out 10 years ago.

Both of these projects are needed, but not as much as something like the Kan-pachi/Kan-nana loop subway or double-decked quad-tracking of the Keio line between Sasazuka and Tsutsujigaoka...
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Old November 30th, 2016, 03:07 AM   #892
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Isn't there a turnback siding or depot west of Shibuya on the Ginza line? And will that turnback siding or depot be decommissioned with the new platform?
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Old November 30th, 2016, 06:24 AM   #893
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It looks like a possibility since the new Ginza station will have 3 tracks with an island platform serving 2 of them. I don't know if the third track will be strictly for storage during off-peak periods or if there's a side platform for it.

It's also possible that this is a track leading back to where the current 4 track layover yard is now and it'll still be used somehow. I'll try to look for a better explanation in my travels and get back to you.
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Isn't there a turnback siding or depot west of Shibuya on the Ginza line? And will that turnback siding or depot be decommissioned with the new platform?
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:50 AM   #894
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Fantasy v. reality

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Ginza Shibuya is overground because it was built before tunneling tech made it easier and cheaper to dig deeper. The Shibuya river used to be right next to the old Shibuya Kokutetsu station. It's all completely underground now though.
The Inokashira line was a separate tram/interurban at that time on the other side of Shibuya station that was originally built by a division of Odakyu. It then became Keio's during the 6merging and subsequent splitting of the Great Tokyu Corporation during WWII.
As a frequent user of both lines, it would be super convenient to have Ginza- Inokashira through services to get to places like Omotesando, Shimbashi and more.
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You know what I realized? Interconnecting the Ginza and Inokashira Lines can be challenging because their gauges are completely different to each other:

- Ginza Line runs on a standard (1,435mm) gauge, with a DC output of 600 volts and runs on 6-car trains
- Keio Inokashira Line runs on a narrow (1,067mm) gauge, with a DC output of 1,500 volts and runs on 5-car trains

For trains to run on both lines, the rails on both lines should be upgraded to allow multiple gauges through the connector. Not to mention, the platform lengths for the latter may need to be extended to accommodate the longer trains of the Ginza Line. Finally, the difference in DC voltages could cause problems when trains switch between systems -- that will require either a unified electric voltage for both lines (either go for third rail or overhead, in which I choose the former), or we can elect to develop trains that will allow to operate smoothly with different voltages when switching lines.
As much as I might wish this could occur, the difference in the track gauge strike me as something that could not be economically overcome.
I would absolutely settle for a platform transfer where I (or you) could exit a Tokyo Metro Ginza Line train line, and walk ~200 m west to a platform where I could catch a Keio Inokashira train to Shimo-Kitazawa or a point further west. (And its resultant eastbound transfer later that night.)
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 03:18 PM   #895
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Well that's exactly what will happen when the new Ginza Line station and JR mezzanine qre complete. All will be on the same level as the current Inokashira tracks.
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 04:04 AM   #896
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Speaking of Tokyo area transit, any news on when will the first production E235 Series trainset be delivered from JR East's Niitsu assembly plant for use on the JR East Yamanote Line in the Tokyo area?
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 04:24 AM   #897
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IIRC JR usually tests their pre-production sets for a year or so before confirming the full order.

And the E235 prototype had quite a fair bit of teething issues that its launch was delayed for quite a while, so...
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 04:36 PM   #898
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Speaking of Tokyo area transit, any news on when will the first production E235 Series trainset be delivered from JR East's Niitsu assembly plant for use on the JR East Yamanote Line in the Tokyo area?
Spring 2017.
https://www.jreast.co.jp/press/2016/20160606.pdf
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 04:49 PM   #899
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I still think a direct connection between the Ginza and Inokashira lines is a good idea, but again, only when the whole Inokashira line is rebuilt to eliminate its dozens of t-grade road crossings.

If the current work at Ginza is going to wind up putting it at the same level as the Inokashira line, then that is a great step in the right direction. First, because it enables an easier transfer in the near term, and second, because it would make a direct connection possible in the distant future without requiring a deep tunnel or demolishing Mark City or making any significant changes at Shibuya station.
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 07:47 PM   #900
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I know what it means from context, but where does the term "t-grade" come from?
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