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Old November 20th, 2006, 12:52 AM   #21
Tubeman
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Very interesting photos, thanks for sharing

I've been to plenty of places in the vicinity (Whitby, Robin Hood's Bay, Maske) but never to either Scarborough or Saltburn.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 02:29 AM   #22
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Wow I never thought i'd see anybody post pictures of my hometown on here, im from Saltburn
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 03:04 AM   #23
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This bloke is evidently a funicular fan... just being within 20 yards of one is giving him a hard-on!

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Old November 23rd, 2006, 04:17 PM   #24
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Those dudes are from the Saltburn surf shop, I think.

Some time ago I also posted a photo thread about the Middlesbrough Transporter Bridge in the Bridges section.

View towards sea from my Bed & Breakfast in Saltburn:
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Old November 25th, 2006, 02:27 AM   #25
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It's a nice, quiet town. But it's not really fitting with this site, thats why it was such a surprise to see it on this site. Them two blokes are from the surf shop, I know the one on the right, also I know the woman in the trailer shop thing on the right. It's only a really small town!

When were you here?
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Old December 6th, 2006, 08:57 AM   #26
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British Question Deregulated Bus Systems

The circus that came to Piccadilly Gardens
5 December 2006
Financial Times

Standing in Manchester's bustling Piccadilly Gardens, it is easy to appreciate why the deregulated bus system ranks so high among commuters' gripes. On an overcast morning, the central square is packed with buses run by different operators, often competing for passengers on the same routes at the same fares.

A queue of buses, some new, others looking ready for scrap, sometimes backs up over the showpiece light railway system, holding up trams. Elsewhere in Greater Manchester some areas have few buses and in many only one of the big five national operators - usually FirstGroup or Stagecoach - plies its trade.

The Passenger Transport Executive, responsible for policy and run by local borough councils, says the situation is irrational and is doing nothing to reverse the drift towards reliance on the private car.

Bus use in England's six metropolitan areas fell more than 17 per cent between 1995-96 and 2005-06, according to Department for Transport statistics.

Greater Manchester PTE argues it should be allowed to control the bus system, awarding franchises to operators to run in a given area and set standards. A similar system operates in London, where patronage has grown by more than 50 per cent in 10 years.

The PTEs may be about to get some of what they want. At this year's Labour party conference, Douglas Alexander, the transport secretary, attacked the "free-for-all" in bus services and, without being specific, promised local transport authorities that needed them real powers to make a difference.

Operators say the biggest problem is that local authorities do too little to help their buses through congested streets. The lesson from London, they say, is that buses succeed where congestion is reduced. They point to the Pounds 8 congestion charge, bus lanes and other so-called bus priority measures.

The operators insist, however, they should be free to run businesses that many have spent two decades building up. Les Warneford, Stagecoach's director of UK Bus, says a return to local authority control would be "plain, old-fashioned confiscation" of the company's right to run some of its businesses.

He hints at legal action if any government measures are too tough. "If they want to run the businesses, let them buy the bus company," he says of the local authorities. "It's state theft. We won't take it lying down."
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Old December 6th, 2006, 03:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Operators say the biggest problem is that local authorities do too little to help their buses through congested streets. The lesson from London, they say, is that buses succeed where congestion is reduced. They point to the Pounds 8 congestion charge, bus lanes and other so-called bus priority measures.
Correct, though in the wrong order. Redesign roads and squares. Limit the space for cars, give more space to bikes and PT. Simple as. Just give those means of transport priority in all manners imaginable.

As yet, somehow people can't get their heads around solutions like those. Even the pro-bike actionists in London do not demand the overhauling of streets. Just make it easy on, and plausible for people to use their bikes and buses.
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Old December 6th, 2006, 03:42 PM   #28
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It's awful. Expensive fares to pay for a poor, inefficient service, to line the pockets of execs & shareholders. It should be unprivatised, along with many other things and don't get me started on the water companies!
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Old December 7th, 2006, 06:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
He hints at legal action if any government measures are too tough. "If they want to run the businesses, let them buy the bus company," he says of the local authorities. "It's state theft. We won't take it lying down."
I think the individual's right of having the government provided ability to move around supercedes the right of private companies to make a mint off the provison of a public service. What's theft is taking away people's bus routes and therefore mobility because they are not profitable routes.
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Old December 7th, 2006, 10:20 AM   #30
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Indeed that's one of the cons of privatisation.

Companies just pick the profitable public transport services and let the unprofitable, or less profitable, services bleed to death.
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Old December 10th, 2006, 10:44 AM   #31
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Private service will succeed if planners put adequate density that can sustain public transit. Otherwise, the public will still have to pay for unprofitable public transit via their taxes.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 01:30 PM   #32
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Indeed, and that's tricky: creating a market for what is supposed to be free market!
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Old December 11th, 2006, 04:51 PM   #33
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Excellent article. This situation in Manchester is terrible in comparison to London.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 07:11 PM   #34
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By ate7 from a Hong Kong transport forum :









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Old May 17th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #35
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looks like theres many private operators in britain
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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:53 PM   #36
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UK Subways Outside London

Just in case you havn't noticed there's been a discussion on the Manchester Forum about future plans for the Metrolink and, should the current proposals ever happen, whether or not there might be any other routes in the future.

The main discussion here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=470243) is whether or not there will ever be any more subway tunnels built in the UK. Doesn't even look like there will be anymore in London the way it's going now, but outside London there is precious little, and you generally get laughed down for even suggesting that somewhere like the West Midlands or Greater Manchester might one day be able to have a few km of subway-like services!

Anyhow if you are interested in the UK take a look at the discussion there - and if you cant be bothered jumping have a look at this fantasy map I drew for Manchester which got the whole debate going over on that page.




It may be pie in the sky but it gets a good debate started about whether or not anywhere outside London (and Glasgow of course - we love the Glasgow Subway!) OK any other major English Metropolitan area - deserves a subway!

:-)
Mark

Last edited by MarkO; May 26th, 2007 at 06:31 PM.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 07:40 PM   #37
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Metrolink is not a subway it is a light rail. but it is a good extention
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Old May 26th, 2007, 07:42 PM   #38
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Is there any way to resize that image, bcos it's huge! xD
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Old May 26th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #39
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Metrolink is light rail, not a subway. They should have built cut and cover tunnels in Manchester City Centre thus allowing improved frequencies and the perception of a Metro system. We can hope that one day this will happen and those trams will stop getting stuck behind privately run buses in the streets.

Serious proposals have previously been put forward for a subway system in Birmingham.

Lets not forget, UK cities have the legacy of massive suburban rail networks (e.g. Glasgow, Manchester). There's a lot of potential in improving this existing infrastructure like they did in Newcastle with an aim of creating a subway system.

Also there will undoubtedly be more tunnels built in London, extensions to existing lines and Crossrail looks almost certain to go ahead.

A few pics from UK metro systems outside of London:


Newcastle Metro:












Glasgow Subway (the 3rd oldest in the world):

Likely to see some serious investment from the New Scottish parliament







Liverpool Merseyrail:

A suburban rail system separate from UK national rail that acts like a small hybrid subway system around Liverpool. Really needs a spring clean and a lick of paint!



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Old May 27th, 2007, 03:49 AM   #40
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The trains have been reliveried since those pictures were taken Sarflonlad.

Of the three underground systems outside of London, the closest to a self-contained subway (and actually called a subway) is the Glasgow Underground or Clockwork Orange which has 15 stations on a circular narrow gauge system.

The Tyne and Wear Metro and Merseyrail systems are very similar in that they are mainly overground commuter lines with five underground stations each in the city centres of Newcastle upon Tyne and Liverpool respectively.

The main difference between the systems is that the Tyne and Wear Metro is independent of the national (Network Rail) rail network whereas Merseyrail, though almost completely physically independent, operates in a similar fashion to the overground systems in Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham. Merseytravel, the passenger transport provider are trying to gain control of the infrastructure but so far have met firm resistance from Network Rail.

Recently, a £2 billion extension proposal was announced for the Glasgow Underground and Merseytravel are beginning to rethink a 1970s proposal to connect the eastern City Lines out of Liverpool Lime Street station into the underground network. However, these schemes will take a long time to come to fruition.

There have been proposals for underground lines in Manchester and Birmingham. The closest any of these came to being realised was the Manchester Picc-Vic scheme of the 1970s, which was cancelled by the government and was eventually replaced by the Metrolink tram system. As far as I am aware, no other UK cities have contemplated constructing underground networks.
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