TAMPA | Trump Tower | 52 stories | 591 ft. | 190 units | DEAD - Page 57

HARTride 2012 · February 22nd, 2008, 07:42 PM

Lord knows how long this drama will continue...

tampasteve · February 22nd, 2008, 08:29 PM

Hey, if it goes long enough they might catch the market on the upswing and actually get it built....

Steve

burnside · February 23rd, 2008, 01:28 PM

There are various estimates for the future trajectory of real estate, and many in mainstream media are saying the present downturn should reverse shortly.

One of the more credible analyses I've read was an Eric Janszen piece in the February Harper's Magazine. He projects the upturn we're looking for may not arrive until 2011/12.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/0081908

It's a pretty good precis of forces in action now.

TampaGuy · February 26th, 2008, 02:42 AM

Its kinda sad to see this project take soooo long I really hope it gets built.

tampasteve · February 26th, 2008, 04:27 AM

Yeah, we would all like to see this one go up....

Welcome to the forum!

Steve

LuvHighrisers · February 26th, 2008, 05:52 AM

At this point maybe this this forum ought to take up a collection to finance it ourselves...

John F · February 26th, 2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampasteve

Yeah, we would all like to see this one go up.

Steve

Who's "We all"? Not only would I like this dead once and for all, I think it's an ugly building and it doesn't work at that location in downtown. But we've already had that argument on this thread (go back and read soem fo the previous conversations if you'd like to see)

SOME in here want to see it go up. Others will like to look back at this proposal as just another never-was project

tampasteve · February 26th, 2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F

Who's "We all"? Not only would I like this dead once and for all, I think it's an ugly building and it doesn't work at that location in downtown. But we've already had that argument on this thread (go back and read soem fo the previous conversations if you'd like to see)

SOME in here want to see it go up. Others will like to look back at this proposal as just another never-was project

whoa, chill out man.

I think that even though some would rather not see this building go up we can ALL agree that it would be better than the empty lot that is likely going to be there for quite some time.

Steve

Jasonhouse · February 26th, 2008, 03:07 PM

^Actually, he was right... we can't all agree on that.

tampasteve · February 26th, 2008, 04:19 PM

OK then, I will recant. I will change my position:

I would like to see this one go up, and I certainly think it would be better than a vacant lot of weeds that is bound to be there for some time. I think it would add some interest to the skyline and it would be a nice tower to have on the riverwalk.

Steve

VICARY · February 26th, 2008, 04:44 PM

Does anyone have an image of the office tower that was proposed for this site back in the late 80s/early 90s? Was an obelisk type tower, green glass, had a Helmut Jahn kind of vibe. Like the one in Jacksonville but shorter...

I think there was an attached park. I had a newspaper clipping at one time but can't seem to find it. It was nice...

TPAMAN · February 26th, 2008, 04:55 PM

I remember reading somewhere recently that Simdag had about 80 of the 100 contracts needed resigned in order to secure the financing from the unidentified hedge fund. They were still trying to secure the 20.

Jasonhouse · February 26th, 2008, 05:12 PM

^I think that's being measured in dollars, not units...

John F · February 26th, 2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampasteve

whoa, chill out man.

I think that even though some would rather not see this building go up we can ALL agree that it would be better than the empty lot that is likely going to be there for quite some time.

Steve

Steve, while I'm not trying to come off hostile -- that wasn't my intention at least -- I do want to make it clear that I don't approve of TTT and I take up the sentiment that the property is better left as riverfront access than an ill-fitting building design.

Some in here are all for development, no matter what that development is because it's "better than an empty lot". Yet there is mroe to development than just sticking a building in an open location. Sometimes, the building on the location or the location of the building just doesn't fit. Sus is the drawback of TTT.

tampasteve · February 26th, 2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F

Steve, while I'm not trying to come off hostile -- that wasn't my intention at least -- I do want to make it clear that I don't approve of TTT and I take up the sentiment that the property is better left as riverfront access than an ill-fitting building design.

Some in here are all for development, no matter what that development is because it's "better than an empty lot". Yet there is mroe to development than just sticking a building in an open location. Sometimes, the building on the location or the location of the building just doesn't fit. Sus is the drawback of TTT.

No problem, we all have our own opinions on here!

As for me, well some might think I am on the side of "any development is better than none", but that is really not the case. I do happen to like this building and think that it
would be a nice tower for our DT area; certainly there are issues with the placement, but I do not think they are insurmountable issues. Overall I do like the design, but perhaps it might be better without the arch at the top, IMO.

Just to post a pic from earlier in the thread:

Steve

***FloridaFuture*** · February 26th, 2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VICARY

Does anyone have an image of the office tower that was proposed for this site back in the late 80s/early 90s? Was an obelisk type tower, green glass, had a Helmut Jahn kind of vibe. Like the one in Jacksonville but shorter...

I think there was an attached park. I had a newspaper clipping at one time but can't seem to find it. It was nice...

Here's a link to the project. It has a picture:

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=...a-tampa-fl-usa

VICARY · February 27th, 2008, 03:51 AM

Thanks. I kinda liked that one....

tampaguy75 · February 27th, 2008, 01:29 PM

[NOT REALLY ANYTHING NEW IS MENTIONED HERE ABOUT TRUMP TOWER TAMPA, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS AN INTERESTING READ]

http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articl...ark-51453.aspx

Trouble with Investing in the Trump Trademark

Trump-licensed projects are not always surefire investments
Published on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008
Written by: Melana Yanos

Comb-over and corny catchphrases aside, Donald Trump has become a figure of public envy. The real estate tycoon has reaped fame and fortune as the poster child of American capitalism: his name appears in large lettering on the façade of massive skyscrapers and his face graces network television screens and tabloids around the clock.

Because of the public’s obsession with “the Donald,” investors have been lured in droves to projects bearing his name. Unfortunately, the glitter of the Trump name doesn’t always result in golden business, and many investors are learning this reality the hard way.

It may come as a surprise to some that Trump does not personally invest in most of the large condo-hotel developments bearing his name; rather, Trump licenses his name to development companies and receives eight to 15 percent of gross condo sales, along with millions of dollars in upfront payments, according to an article published by Forbes in September 2006.

The condo-hotel development once known as Trump Tower Tampa serves as a cautionary tale of a Trump-branded investment gone horribly wrong. The inability to secure financial backing and problems with overall project execution has hindered developers’ progress ever since plans for the skyscraper were announced three years ago. The opening date, originally set for December 2008, has been pushed back to December 2010.

Frustration with the project escalated in May 2007, when Trump sued the Tower’s development company, SimDag, in order to pull his name from the project.
Trump also finds himself at the receiving end of litigations. A married couple in Florida filed a suit against Trump last October, claiming they were misled to think that he was a partner in Trump Tower Tampa, where they had purchased a $2.64 million condo unit. SimDag and the original individual development partners were also named as defendants in the suit, according to The Tampa Tribune.

The Tribune also reported that two other suits against the project to get deposit money back were pending.

The latest controversy surrounding the Trump name, however, involves a suit against the developers of Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago filed by four hotel-condo buyers, according to an article by the Chicago Tribune published this month. In this case, Trump is a lead investor in the project and the Trump Organization has directly been involved in overseeing development.

The suit claims that the company, 401 North Wabash Venture, LLC, took away buyers’ ownership stake in common elements, such as meeting rooms and laundry facilities, which had originally been promised in property reports. Furthermore, the suit claims that the company reneged contract terms that originally allowed buyers to stay in their hotel-condos for as long as they wanted without adversely affecting their priority status for renting out the units.

Each of the four condos were priced at around $2 million, and buyers had been required to put down 20 percent in earnest money, Shelley Kulwin, an attorney with Kulwin & Associates who is representing the four buyers, said.

“My clients went into this with the best of intentions, and thought that they were [going to get] into a good investment,” Kulwin said. “Had these things not happened, they would have in all likelihood closed on these deals.”

A court order has stayed their closings until a resolution is reached.

Perhaps the lesson to be learned from these unhappy buyers is that the Trump name does not come with a 100 percent satisfaction guarantee; in other words, a high-profile brand name will in no way trump poor execution in development and non-delivery on contract agreements.

Trump has always put a positive spin at the onset of projects bearing his name, regardless of past developments that have fallen short of expectations. The tycoon has even touted his own fortune as more than twice the amount that experts estimate him to be actually worth, according to an article by Forbes published in September 2006.
However, investors are in a position to be skeptical. After all, Trump has nothing material to lose when his licensed projects go under. Those who buy into his projects, on the other hand, stand to lose hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars.
Overall, investors should not be fooled by the glitz of Trump-branded projects and should do some research to determine whether the units are truly worth the money. Projects in which Trump has actually invested some of his own money are probably more reliable than mere brand-name products.

"When I license my name to somebody, I don't have the same power over a job," Trump said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal last November. "I could have pulled the Tampa job off easily. Other people can't pull it off easily."

It’s always a good idea to talk to a real estate lawyer and other experts upon considering significant and unique investment opportunities.

“I think [an investor] should look to professional people [for] advice...the more unique the investment is—that’s my own personal view,” Kulwin said. “And then it’s up to...the investor [to make a decision].”

ChuckScraperMiami#1 · February 27th, 2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampasteve

No problem, we all have our own opinions on here!

Just to post a pic from earlier in the thread:

Steve

Steve

,
our opinion friend,
Very True,
take a good look at this picture again with the Trump Tampa Tower,
it's got o be built sooner or later In My opinion.
it's a beauty and fits perfect in it's place.
Some developer in the near future is gonna take over this project and get it built either Hotel, Condo or office tower,
It's gonna get done in the next 6 years IMO !!!

and Tampa Guy

,
our Tampa Bay update friend,
thanks for that info, it does have a section there saying it's been delayed to late 2010,
something's got to happen soon

.

Atl Dan (via Tampa) · February 27th, 2008, 10:18 PM

I seriously doubt you will see another tower (especially) a condo tower coming out of the ground in Tampa for at least 5-6 years. TTT is dead, Trump Tower Atlanta is slowing dying too. I've been here in Atlanta since last July and they have been planning on getting started with construction any day now since I got here. Its sad but there is a huge glut and over capacity in residential condos nationwide. I think once Element is finished that will be it for new condos for a long while.

When you have the various developers of the various channelside projects turning to the rental market, you have problems.

Besides that was the worst location for a condo tower downtown, too tight a site, too far from the core of downtown action (which is in the center to north side), just bad siting and a poor job by the developers. Trump didn't care he was just getting a paycheck (supposed to anyway). It would be better for a smaller office tower or another part of an expanded riverwalk park.

February 22nd, 2008, 07:42 PM	#1121
HARTride 2012 Let's go... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 6,942	Lord knows how long this drama will continue... __________________ My trip to Europe (All of Day One is now up!)\|Tampa Bay Transit NOW ONLINE!\|The Tampa Transit Utopia Blog\|deviantART\|The Sims 2\|Wikipedia \| Facebook

February 22nd, 2008, 08:29 PM	#1122
tampasteve TECO Line rider Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,424	Hey, if it goes long enough they might catch the market on the upswing and actually get it built.... Steve __________________ Homer: Face it, Marge, Catholics rule! We got Boston, South America, the good part of Ireland, and we're makin' serious inroads in Mozambique, baby! "My badger's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

February 26th, 2008, 04:27 AM	#1125
tampasteve TECO Line rider Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,424	Yeah, we would all like to see this one go up.... Welcome to the forum! Steve __________________ Homer: Face it, Marge, Catholics rule! We got Boston, South America, the good part of Ireland, and we're makin' serious inroads in Mozambique, baby! "My badger's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

February 26th, 2008, 04:19 PM	#1130
tampasteve TECO Line rider Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,424	OK then, I will recant. I will change my position: I would like to see this one go up, and I certainly think it would be better than a vacant lot of weeds that is bound to be there for some time. I think it would add some interest to the skyline and it would be a nice tower to have on the riverwalk. Steve __________________ Homer: Face it, Marge, Catholics rule! We got Boston, South America, the good part of Ireland, and we're makin' serious inroads in Mozambique, baby! "My badger's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

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February 23rd, 2008, 01:28 PM	#1123
burnside Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 15	There are various estimates for the future trajectory of real estate, and many in mainstream media are saying the present downturn should reverse shortly. One of the more credible analyses I've read was an Eric Janszen piece in the February Harper's Magazine. He projects the upturn we're looking for may not arrive until 2011/12. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/0081908 It's a pretty good precis of forces in action now.

February 26th, 2008, 02:42 AM	#1124
TampaGuy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tampa Posts: 124	Its kinda sad to see this project take soooo long I really hope it gets built.

February 26th, 2008, 05:52 AM	#1126
LuvHighrisers Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tampa Posts: 179	At this point maybe this this forum ought to take up a collection to finance it ourselves...

February 26th, 2008, 03:07 PM	#1129
Jasonhouse Administrator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 9,833	^Actually, he was right... we can't all agree on that.

February 26th, 2008, 04:44 PM	#1131
VICARY Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Erie/Tampa/Detroit Posts: 29	Does anyone have an image of the office tower that was proposed for this site back in the late 80s/early 90s? Was an obelisk type tower, green glass, had a Helmut Jahn kind of vibe. Like the one in Jacksonville but shorter... I think there was an attached park. I had a newspaper clipping at one time but can't seem to find it. It was nice...

February 26th, 2008, 04:55 PM	#1132
TPAMAN Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 180	I remember reading somewhere recently that Simdag had about 80 of the 100 contracts needed resigned in order to secure the financing from the unidentified hedge fund. They were still trying to secure the 20.

February 26th, 2008, 05:12 PM	#1133
Jasonhouse Administrator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 9,833	^I think that's being measured in dollars, not units...

February 27th, 2008, 03:51 AM	#1137
VICARY Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Erie/Tampa/Detroit Posts: 29	Thanks. I kinda liked that one....

February 27th, 2008, 01:29 PM	#1138
tampaguy75 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 175	[NOT REALLY ANYTHING NEW IS MENTIONED HERE ABOUT TRUMP TOWER TAMPA, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS AN INTERESTING READ] http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articl...ark-51453.aspx Trouble with Investing in the Trump Trademark Trump-licensed projects are not always surefire investments Published on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 Written by: Melana Yanos Comb-over and corny catchphrases aside, Donald Trump has become a figure of public envy. The real estate tycoon has reaped fame and fortune as the poster child of American capitalism: his name appears in large lettering on the façade of massive skyscrapers and his face graces network television screens and tabloids around the clock. Because of the public’s obsession with “the Donald,” investors have been lured in droves to projects bearing his name. Unfortunately, the glitter of the Trump name doesn’t always result in golden business, and many investors are learning this reality the hard way. It may come as a surprise to some that Trump does not personally invest in most of the large condo-hotel developments bearing his name; rather, Trump licenses his name to development companies and receives eight to 15 percent of gross condo sales, along with millions of dollars in upfront payments, according to an article published by Forbes in September 2006. The condo-hotel development once known as Trump Tower Tampa serves as a cautionary tale of a Trump-branded investment gone horribly wrong. The inability to secure financial backing and problems with overall project execution has hindered developers’ progress ever since plans for the skyscraper were announced three years ago. The opening date, originally set for December 2008, has been pushed back to December 2010. Frustration with the project escalated in May 2007, when Trump sued the Tower’s development company, SimDag, in order to pull his name from the project. Trump also finds himself at the receiving end of litigations. A married couple in Florida filed a suit against Trump last October, claiming they were misled to think that he was a partner in Trump Tower Tampa, where they had purchased a $2.64 million condo unit. SimDag and the original individual development partners were also named as defendants in the suit, according to The Tampa Tribune. The Tribune also reported that two other suits against the project to get deposit money back were pending. The latest controversy surrounding the Trump name, however, involves a suit against the developers of Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago filed by four hotel-condo buyers, according to an article by the Chicago Tribune published this month. In this case, Trump is a lead investor in the project and the Trump Organization has directly been involved in overseeing development. The suit claims that the company, 401 North Wabash Venture, LLC, took away buyers’ ownership stake in common elements, such as meeting rooms and laundry facilities, which had originally been promised in property reports. Furthermore, the suit claims that the company reneged contract terms that originally allowed buyers to stay in their hotel-condos for as long as they wanted without adversely affecting their priority status for renting out the units. Each of the four condos were priced at around $2 million, and buyers had been required to put down 20 percent in earnest money, Shelley Kulwin, an attorney with Kulwin & Associates who is representing the four buyers, said. “My clients went into this with the best of intentions, and thought that they were [going to get] into a good investment,” Kulwin said. “Had these things not happened, they would have in all likelihood closed on these deals.” A court order has stayed their closings until a resolution is reached. Perhaps the lesson to be learned from these unhappy buyers is that the Trump name does not come with a 100 percent satisfaction guarantee; in other words, a high-profile brand name will in no way trump poor execution in development and non-delivery on contract agreements. Trump has always put a positive spin at the onset of projects bearing his name, regardless of past developments that have fallen short of expectations. The tycoon has even touted his own fortune as more than twice the amount that experts estimate him to be actually worth, according to an article by Forbes published in September 2006. However, investors are in a position to be skeptical. After all, Trump has nothing material to lose when his licensed projects go under. Those who buy into his projects, on the other hand, stand to lose hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. Overall, investors should not be fooled by the glitz of Trump-branded projects and should do some research to determine whether the units are truly worth the money. Projects in which Trump has actually invested some of his own money are probably more reliable than mere brand-name products. "When I license my name to somebody, I don't have the same power over a job," Trump said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal last November. "I could have pulled the Tampa job off easily. Other people can't pull it off easily." It’s always a good idea to talk to a real estate lawyer and other experts upon considering significant and unique investment opportunities. “I think [an investor] should look to professional people [for] advice...the more unique the investment is—that’s my own personal view,” Kulwin said. “And then it’s up to...the investor [to make a decision].”

February 27th, 2008, 10:18 PM	#1140
Atl Dan (via Tampa) Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 150	I seriously doubt you will see another tower (especially) a condo tower coming out of the ground in Tampa for at least 5-6 years. TTT is dead, Trump Tower Atlanta is slowing dying too. I've been here in Atlanta since last July and they have been planning on getting started with construction any day now since I got here. Its sad but there is a huge glut and over capacity in residential condos nationwide. I think once Element is finished that will be it for new condos for a long while. When you have the various developers of the various channelside projects turning to the rental market, you have problems. Besides that was the worst location for a condo tower downtown, too tight a site, too far from the core of downtown action (which is in the center to north side), just bad siting and a poor job by the developers. Trump didn't care he was just getting a paycheck (supposed to anyway). It would be better for a smaller office tower or another part of an expanded riverwalk park.