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Old June 5th, 2014, 05:13 PM   #1
Obelixx
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2 military radio masts - tallest structures in India?

Two newly-built masts of INS Kattabomman, the VLF-transmitter may be the tallest structures of India.
I have no information, but a look on Wikimapia looks to this conclusion. Look at http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=8....54192&z=16&m=b , there has the shadow of the central mast a length of 20.5 mm on my display. The mast has according http://indiannavy.nic.in/about-india...ns-kattabomman a height of 301 metres. The shadow of the mast at 8.378574 N 77.743979 E has a length of 33 mm on my display, so it may have a height of 485 metres!

Has someone more informations on these masts?
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Old June 5th, 2014, 08:05 PM   #2
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Isnt 485m too high? List of tall structures in India is so much under-represented (except Mum) on the Web. The page of Indian Navy states that it is the 3rd tallest in the country. So tallest is Rameswaram tower at 323m, then Fazilka Tower with 304+ m? Is that correct? I dont think so, there might be more such structures
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Old June 5th, 2014, 08:09 PM   #3
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How do you calculate the length of the tower from the shadow length? It varies from time to time
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Old June 5th, 2014, 09:24 PM   #4
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I used the Wikimapia pictures and measured there shadow lengthes. It seems to be the fact that the whole VLF-transmission facility was photographed at the same time and so my method has no principial errors.
Of course some incorrectnesses may occur by inclination of terrain, but obviously these masts are taller than 400 metres.
I would not wonder about this. The US Navy has on Hawaii 458 metres tall radio masts ( http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=57182 ), why should Indian Navy not build such objects?

These masts seems to be new objects. They can be seen on Google
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=8....43979&z=15&m=h
but not on Bing
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=8....3979&z=15&m=bs
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Old June 6th, 2014, 03:19 AM   #5
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Obelixx, those 2 new masts are part of the Navy's far superior ELF communiciations facility that will commissioned prior to/during the upcoming sea trials of INS Arihant - part of the Navy's new Arihant class of nuclear submarines. Given their importance, details of their heights haven't been publicized and no web trail on its tender/construction contract can be found.

Btw are you Alpha on SSP? A new database correction was recently posted for Kattabomman's VLF masts. Slight correction - not all masts have the same height. This should partially help:

M-0: 301.14m (Central mast)
M-4: 276.45m
- Source

M-2: 276.45m
M-3: 227.45m
- Source

It'll be nice if someone can update the wikipedia article as well.


[OT]
For the mil. enthusiasts out here - this Extremely Low-Frequency (ELF) facility will allow our SSBNs to operate to far greater + wider depths of the ocean without losing Command and Control while enjoying far superior immunity from anti-submarine warfare platforms, overall making the IN's underwater deterrence far more potent and discrete.
[/OT]
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Old June 6th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #6
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Will this be really an ELF facility? Which frequencies will it use?

i know, there are ELF facilities in Russia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZEVS_(transmitter)) ) and in USA ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine ), but these stations do not use tall masts. They use as antenna powerlines fed with the radio signal to be transmitted, which run to two distant grounding points, where the current runs into ground.

I believe the Indian facility is of the same type, perhaps using one of the HVDC groundings, from which several exist in India, to feed the signal into ground.

The huge new masts at India's Naval Transmission Facility look like more than antennas for VLF.

Last edited by Obelixx; June 7th, 2014 at 12:24 AM.
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Old June 6th, 2014, 10:15 PM   #7
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Given the nature of the project, the frequency details haven't been released.

The facility's construction has been in the past reported to be taking place at Vijayanarayanam (the village where INS Kattabomman is located) by Janes and Trishul-Trident (a reliable blog) at various times over the past 2 years. If this site inside INS Kattabomman isn't ideal for hosting another military installation/facility, then what else is?

Another thing to consider is that VLF stations have highly symmetric designs with evenly placed masts (usually in 2 inner & outer hexagons surrounding the central mast), so 2 random new masts on-site would be considered out of place and inconsequential as far as VLF transmissions go.
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Old June 7th, 2014, 12:34 AM   #8
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But would it be really possible to built an ELF-antenna inside INS Kattabomman? Look at the map of the ZEVS-transmitter

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zevs_Map.png

It has an extension of several dozen kilometres. The US counterpart Sanguine has a similiar seize.

The reason for this size is physical nature: ELF waves have wavelengthes of 1000 kilometres and more and so huge antennas are required. In fact the effiency of antenna systems of ZEVS and Sanguine is very poor, just in the order of 0.000001, but even a few watt of RADIATED ELF-Power ( for which the transmitters a few megawatt electric power require) allow the desired goal of global reach.

I believe that the new antenna could just work in the range of 1 kHz to 10 kHz, below conventional VLF, but not in the ELF range.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 05:03 AM   #9
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You're spot-on about the need for extremely long feedlines needed for operating an ELF station, but I don't see the merit in building something that's inferior, especially when the ELF facility has been reported to be u/c. I absolutely abhor speculation, so it's best to wait and watch.

Project Sanguine actually never got off, btw. It was replaced by the scaled down Project Elf which closed down a decade ago.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 03:49 PM   #10
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Are there forumers living near INS Kattabomman? If yes, they should look out for construction of unusual powerlines, which start at INS Kattabomman. This must be the ELF-facility.
The new huge masts may belong to a new VLF-antenna.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #11
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It's an important project from national security viewpoint I'd suggest that for the sake of national security we shouldn't speculate and or give away the locations of these projects

This thread doesn't really has any importance from infrastructural viewpoint
Also I doubt the our and American state
A would be similar in any way

Geography, need, type of mission etc depends on the needs of the country
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Old June 14th, 2014, 08:33 PM   #12
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Nevertheless, these masts cannot be used for ELF-transmissions, see http://lwca.org/mb/msg/4679.htm . And this posting comes from a professional radio engineer!

I believe, they are used for transmissions with frequencies of approximazely 10 kHz.
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