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Old June 9th, 2014, 06:26 AM   #21
ThatOneGuy
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Since you are acting like your opinion is fact, I will also act like it. Restorations with a high quality finish would make them better. Fact. It has happened before and will happen again. Old brutalist buildings were restored, and then they sold like never before. You are acting like all people hate a style and that it's somehow anti-human...that's bullshit. Can you give me a good reason these buildings are anti-human, apart from mismaintenance, that can't be used against other apartments?


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Originally Posted by Reality7 View Post
(c.1955)You are right, future generations will cry rivers for pulling down victorian industrial crap... they will miss the unique lifestyle they provided..so ..humane..
Perfect! Just like a developer from the old era.

You're clearly not getting it. You should be against all apartment buildings if you make such stupid connections.
Trellick needs a restoration. Do you know what a restoration is?
And Center Point is a masterpiece of mid-century modernism. And not even an apartment building. You just push evil ideas against it because it's cool to do so (well at least it was ten years ago)

You people aren't willing to accept that the architectural genocide of these buildings would be a repetition of history. They do not build buildings like this anymore, and you care nothing for future generations that will see these as historic. You are the arrogant ones.
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Old June 9th, 2014, 06:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mapece View Post
We're not talking just of my personal taste, considering that tower is usually in a lot of lists of the ugliest buldings in the whole world, and for a good reason.
Eiffel Tower was also seen as ugly by its generation. It really is a generation thing, since people are reluctant to see building from their lifetime or slightly before as historic icons.
Once again, this building is due for a restoration. The satellites, rusted roof, rotted windows and dirty facade do not help the appearance at all. While I also find the randomly placed windows and kitsch intentions bad, without a doubt a restoration would improve its aesthetics a lot.
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Old June 9th, 2014, 10:29 AM   #23
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I personally don't understand and don't like the brutalism style at all. Still, I should agree with ThatOneGuy here: no unique and historic building should be demolished, even if many people (including may be myself) consider it "ugly".

I again will repeat: nobody of us has the signed certificate confirming that our taste is best and universal for whole galaxy for the all times, no matter what education, experience and degree we have in art and/or architecture. Nobody of us have even slight idea what next generations will think about certain buildings.

We really should learn to respect other opinions, even if we don't agree with them. It's the only way we can expect our own opinions will be respected, and the buildings, that we like, will not be demolished.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 01:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Eiffel Tower was also seen as ugly by its generation. It really is a generation thing, since people are reluctant to see building from their lifetime or slightly before as historic icons.
Many (myself included) still see the Eiffel building as not exactly pretty, but there's a difference, the Eiffel tower is not the most beautiful object, but with the Torre Velasca we're on a totally different level, is a truly horrible building. When I thought that all brutalism was something withouth value (and I was certainly wrong in that) I thought first of all of buildings like that. Now I know that there are great brutalist buldings, buildings that are so and so and there's also crap. Velasca is utter crap.
The Eiffel tower was ever mentioned as one of the ugliest buildings in the world? I don't think so. The Velasca topped a lot of those lists.
So, we can't even destroy a building that is so hated and considered extremely ugly and depressing, and not just by those who lived near it but by everyone?
What do you think are buildings, children?
Do you really think that EVERY SINGLE BUILDING in the world should be preserved?
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Old June 10th, 2014, 01:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimer View Post
I personally don't understand and don't like the brutalism style at all. Still, I should agree with ThatOneGuy here: no unique and historic building should be demolished, even if many people (including may be myself) consider it "ugly".

I again will repeat: nobody of us has the signed certificate confirming that our taste is best and universal for whole galaxy for the all times, no matter what education, experience and degree we have in art and/or architecture. Nobody of us have even slight idea what next generations will think about certain buildings.

We really should learn to respect other opinions, even if we don't agree with them. It's the only way we can expect our own opinions will be respected, and the buildings, that we like, will not be demolished.
but buildings aren't just "opinions". They occupy the space where we live, they could improve the quality of life or on the contrary make it worse.
And to care about what next generation will think is to care first of all about what we think.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 02:34 AM   #26
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Although, this building is still under construction, I would like it to be demolished already.



The main reason is that once finished it will ruin the vista of Rizal Park in Manila. The park is home to the tomb of the Philippines' national hero. There used to be a smoke stack of the old electric company that was visible in the vista but the city government was able to pull all strings to have them removed and preserve a clear line of sight. However, after several changes in the mayor, the developer got an approval for an atrocious 47-storey tower of terror. See how it ruins the view even with only eight floors



And someone from the Philippine forums made a projection of how it will look like when finished



The building got a temporary restraining order after heritage lovers and nimbys complained (yours truly included). However, the city council, after "reviewing" the case still approved it. It just so sad that there are lot of people in the Philippine thread who thinks of people like me are anti-progress. They think development is synonymous to having tall buildings everywhere.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 02:52 AM   #27
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The problem has always been money verses humanity.

That is why architects like Gaudi will be remembered for 100s maybe 1000s of years after their deaths because they tried to add beauty and a better standard of living to people.

The Brutalist architects, in general, are correctly seen a moral hooligans who forced upon people their personal ideals. The buildings looked bad when they were completed, but have aged terribly. They are already forgotten and their excuses of 'progress' and 'the modern world' are now seen as politician's speak for 'I am going to make money off this nasty architecture and it is my personal right to do so..'
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Old June 11th, 2014, 04:03 PM   #28
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The problem has always been money verses humanity.

That is why architects like Gaudi will be remembered for 100s maybe 1000s of years after their deaths because they tried to add beauty and a better standard of living to people.
Where? How?
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Old June 12th, 2014, 04:25 PM   #29
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Big windows with lots of light, big spaces, elevators on every second floor so residents would have to meet and form communities etc You know, things to make people human rather than feel more depressed like Brutalism achieved so well..
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Old June 12th, 2014, 04:58 PM   #30
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Yes, of course: those are the most important elements of Gaudis architecture
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Old June 12th, 2014, 06:01 PM   #31
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Yes the relation between nature and man, and also community are very strong aspects.

Plus the fact that his architecture doesn't look like old concrete animal cages. Humans tend not to like cages... if you can build buildings that make you think you are still human...buildings that also contain beauty, surprise surprise, it makes people's lives better...on this planet anyway..
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Old June 12th, 2014, 06:50 PM   #32
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Old June 13th, 2014, 12:54 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Since you are acting like your opinion is fact, I will also act like it. Restorations with a high quality finish would make them better. Fact. It has happened before and will happen again. Old brutalist buildings were restored, and then they sold like never before. You are acting like all people hate a style and that it's somehow anti-human...that's bullshit. Can you give me a good reason these buildings are anti-human, apart from mismaintenance, that can't be used against other apartments?
.
One reason is the general poor quality of construction of many of those the buildings. Another is the intentional bleakness that the architects thought so important.

Yes, with a bit of imagination, and a huge step up in quality for the residents, it's possible to make such apartment blocks decent places to live - essentially by undoing all the things that made them "brutalist" in the first place.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 02:54 PM   #34
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Great post
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Old July 6th, 2014, 02:56 PM   #35
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I'm clearly not getting it., people with my low intelligence aren't willing to accept that the architectural genocide of these buildings would be a repetition of history. They do not build buildings like this anymore, and you care nothing for future generations that will see these as historic. You are the arrogant ones.
PERFECT, NOW YOU ARE BEING HONEST!
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Old August 28th, 2015, 03:03 AM   #36
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Sorry for bringing this thread back from death row.

Despite its universal love by most skyscraper fans around the world (and in Indonesia), I will happy to see Menara BCA, Kempinski Residence and Grand Indonesia mall demolished and relocated elsewhere.


BCA Tower by Ahmad Saiful Muhajir, on Flickr


Reaching up.. #building #kempinski #residences #SkyScraper #jakarta #city #apartments #bundaranHI by ayoe ravenclaw, on Flickr
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There's three reason to see this building get demolished:
First, the buildings spoiled Abel Sorensen's Hotel Indonesia's beauty. (the beauty that spoiled another beauty)
Second, it destroyed the Hotel Indonesia's aesthetics and scenery.
Third, it destroyed Bundaran HI's scenery too.

Before that, it filled with some sorts of low rise, greenery, pools and such, like it was in much of 1970s-2004. Thanks to government's decision to sold the building to private investors in 2005 (Reality7 is right, money speaks), today Hotel Indonesia is dwarfed by such smug mall. Which cheered and celebrated by some skyscraper fan ironically :-\.

Personally, they shouldn't need such awfully tall towers and smug luxury mall to bring Hotel Indonesia back to life.
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Old August 28th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #37
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this in Paris

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