so what if cta and metra combined?

[Third of a kind]

I have to say I really enjoy lurking on other borads..esp this one
and i've found out alot about your city by doing so

one thing that interested me was the fact that metra and the cta weren't combined in one union like say the Mta here in ny

if these two agencies were to combine how would it effect the whole chicagoland reigon? would parts of metra be converted to heavy-rail/hybrid (is metra heavy rail?) withing city limits?

would the cta still be cash strapped like it is? and how would the rehabilitation projects go?..better yet how could the cta and metra further integrate their systems (if combined under one umbrella)

I'm looking at this as an outsider..but I think if this union would ever happen something like city ticket (its an pilot/expermiental program here in ny where you can ride lirr/met north for like 2.50 within city limits) would serve the city residents well..especially if it werent a pilot/experimental program.


I dunno i'm just curious, and curious to hear thoughts

[goonsta]

RTA owns CTA, Metra, and Pace, but they still fight. The only deal on Metra is that you can ride unlimited on weekends for 5 dollars. They were talking about making the Chicago Card usable on Metra.

[flatiron94]

I like lurking to or going to chicago thats fun to. But realy what is RTA metra & pace. (I now about CTA)

[itsnotrequired]

Originally Posted by goonsta

RTA owns CTA, Metra, and Pace, but they still fight. The only deal on Metra is that you can ride unlimited on weekends for 5 dollars. They were talking about making the Chicago Card usable on Metra.

I don't believe the RTA owns any agencies. It is just an oversight and planning organization.

For more on the RTA, check out the website.

RTA

[oshkeoto]

"But realy what is RTA metra & pace. (I now about CTA)"

The RTA, as itsnotrequired said, is an oversight agency that covers the CTA, Metra and Pace. (RTA stands for Regional Transportation Authority.)

Metra is the private commuter train service in Chicago. It goes all over the city and suburbs and out as far as (I believe) Kenosha and southwestern Michigan. It is much faster than the El, but also somewhat more expensive, and trains come every hour or even less if it's not rush hour.

Pace is the suburban bus service. It's pretty much exactly like the CTA bus service (costs the same, you can use CTA cards in Pace buses), just it works in the suburbs. And the buses are in better repair.

[The Urban Politician]

Originally Posted by oshkeoto

"But realy what is RTA metra & pace. (I now about CTA)"

The RTA, as itsnotrequired said, is an oversight agency that covers the CTA, Metra and Pace. (RTA stands for Regional Transportation Authority.)

Metra is the private commuter train service in Chicago. It goes all over the city and suburbs and out as far as (I believe) Kenosha and southwestern Michigan. It is much faster than the El, but also somewhat more expensive, and trains come every hour or even less if it's not rush hour.

Pace is the suburban bus service. It's pretty much exactly like the CTA bus service (costs the same, you can use CTA cards in Pace buses), just it works in the suburbs. And the buses are in better repair.

^Wow--Metra goes to Southwest Michigan? I had no idea! Is that really true? That means that the Chicago area rail system serves 4 states!

[ThirdCoast312]

You are thinking of the South Shore train, different from metra which is the oldest inter urban commuter rail service still in existence and serves the South Shore of Indiana, towns like Gary IN and it DOES NOT GO TO SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN, it goes to Southbend, IN where it terminates. The south shore train does go through Michigan City, Indiana ( i know it's confusing) a city only a few miles from the Indiana & Michigan border. The reason the South Shore train continues to be separate from Metra is because it is largley funded by the Indiana government rather than the Illinios government

[oshkeoto]

^ Ah. Thanks for that.

[aion26]

It (the south shore) is not a bad little train either. I've taken it often.

[samsonyuen]

I think consolidation on most things would make things easier for commuters. Unified pricing and payment, even schedules would make the authority much more efficient. Here in London, the Transport for London, payment is consolidated in the region. I wish the TTC and GO train could also do the same in Toronto.

[Rivernorth]

Originally Posted by oshkeoto

It is much faster than the El, but also somewhat more expensive, and trains come every hour or even less if it's not rush hour.

That depends. Some lines, such as the SWS (Southwest Line) has trains coming only about one an hour. My primary line on the other hand, the BNSF (Burlington Northern Santa Fe Line), has trains coming every 5 minutes during rushhour, which is just insane!

Cost also varies. To travel to Union Station from Zone A (which is for the most part all within Chicago city limits) only costs 1.85 to travel, which is almost CTA price. Zone C, which is my zone along the BNSF line costs only $2.90 to Union Station, which is a damn bargain. Now, to travel from Harvard, IL to Ogilvie, itll set you back $6.90!

[ThirdCoast312]

also metra offers deals that CTA doesn't have, like 10 rides for a discounted price, and a monthly pass for a discounted price uncomparable to the slight savings a CTA montlhy pass offers. Only prob is that with a meta montly pass you were restricted to one route, from your station of residence to Union, Randolph, La Salle, or Northwestern station usually. Did you guys ever notice that it's WAY Cheaper to get a monthly pass on the metra traveling from stations in the city it's only 49 BUCKS, but of course you're restricted to two stations.

[Ravenswood el]

Metra is primarily a heavy rail system. The reason that the consolidation did not take place the way it did in NYC is because of the competition that existed historically between the eL, the streetcar lines and the heavy rail lines, some of which parallel each other and even compete.

Also, to some extent, while different in name the Metra/CTA system parallels the reality in NYC. For instance, one cannot get off of the LIRR and "transfer" to a subway, nor are the tickets transferable. Historically, of course, in NY, subway lines even competed with each other IRT, BMT, etc. And an interesting factoid is that portions of the BMT had a different guage than the rest of the system!

Standardization came under Belmont in NYC, I believe.

Now in Chicago, before CTA consolidation in 1947, the CRT (Chicago Rapid Transit) was part of the remnants of the Insull system (North Shore/Shouth Shore/CA&E). And these lines competed with the steam lines (CN&W, Milwaukee Road, IC, Chicago Burlinton & Quincy). So, in 1947 when the streetcar and eL lines were consolidated, duplicate service was eliminated.
Lines eliminated included an extension of the Blue Line that paralleled North Avenue and extended all the way out to Homan Ave!

But the RTA was not formed until later, in the 1970s. Until that time, the CN&W, etc. still competed with the eL, as before. But the big RRs were going broke in the 1970s, so a funding option to save commuter rail had to be found.
But this meant placating people in far flung counties and suburbs from a funding standpoint. . Remember, this was shortly after RR abandonment of
the passenger service (Amtrak, 1971).

Hence, to this day, the CTA and Metra/Pace remain as separate as possible, despite that they are all part of the RTA.

And hence, the current CTA crisis.

In other words, it is just a political matter.

[Third of a kind]

Originally Posted by Ravenswood el

Metra is primarily a heavy rail system.

how much of the system is heavy rail?

thats interesting...metra is primarily a commuter rail type of system like mnrr/lirr?...thats would be a good look for chi, I mean they wouldn't have to worry about the astounding cost it takes to convert rail to heavy

[Ravenswood el]

Metra Chicago is all heavy rail. Most of it is unelectrified, with the exception of the Illinois Central and the (Illinois) section of the South Shore (which shares funding with Northern Indiana.

The CTA eL system is mostly completely inside of the city of Chicago. Metra's system stretches from Wisconsin to Joliet to inside of Indiana and then some.
So, in hindsight, I would say that the Metro/LIRR/NJT, New Haven/ etc. differences are very much like the differences between the CTA and Metra (composed of the old Rock Island, Milwaukee Road, CN&W, CSS&SB, Burlington and Illinois Central). These are primarily heavy rail diesel operations and can run 100 miles away from the city (nearly).

The differences seem to be political and structural. I believe that Metro is a tri-state bureacracy that exists because of cooperation between the states (and Port Authority). Our Metra is funded by the RTA and the six county region within Illinois. And within, there is a huge dispute about where the built of the funding should be spent. Suburbanites fear their tax dollars being spent
on the city (even though so many of them use the city). And, there is the political dispute that exists between the County of Cook and everything else ("downstate"). Ceding funding to Chicago's CTA is like Daley taking over Harvard, IL (by their reasoning). And that is just the dispute within the 6 country region: the larger one is between upsate and downstate.

Illinois residents need to understand that regionally and within the state, Chicago is "the goose that laid the golden egg". Tax revenues received by the state come primarily from the six county region around Chicago...not from Macomb or Carbondale.

Yes I realize Upstate versus city exists in NY, too. But at least Metro isn't about to go broke because of it...

[Third of a kind]

yeah there is an upstate vs city thing going on..but

the thing w/ the metro north is..there is very strong ridership between the bronx and westchester..especially reverse commuting... the biggest political differences I know of lie with the new haven line because it is interstate transit..the mta has some tri state power because of the two lines located west of the hudson river that are used with nj transit

but the port authority is totally separated from the mta, they do lease things between each other but they are seperate..hence the reason why you can't use metrocards on path trains

thats interesting that the metra system is heavy rail/diesel...ravenswood does metra have any lines with overhead catenary? or operating third rail???

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Third of a kind

thats interesting that the metra system is heavy rail/diesel...ravenswood does metra have any lines with overhead catenary? or operating third rail???

the lines of the metra electric district ("ME" on the map ravenswood posted) and the south shore railroad ("SS" on the map ravenswood posted) are powered by overhead catenary. these are the lines that feed into randolph street station. all of the other metra lines that feed into union station, ogilvie staion, and lasalle street station, run diesel engines pulling coaches. there are no metra lines that are powered by 3rd rail.

the CTA's L system is 100% 3rd rail powered now that the skokie swift yellow line has been converted from overhead catenary.

[Ravenswood el]

Originally Posted by sharptent

the lines of the metra electric district ("ME" on the map ravenswood posted) and the south shore railroad ("SS" on the map ravenswood posted) are powered by overhead catenary. these are the lines that feed into randolph street station. all of the other metra lines that feed into union station, ogilvie staion, and lasalle street station, run diesel engines pulling coaches. there are no metra lines that are powered by 3rd rail.

the CTA's L system is 100% 3rd rail powered now that the skokie swift yellow line has been converted from overhead catenary.

I am not sure what you guys are calling "heavy rail" versus "light rail", but what is now the Skokie Swift was constructed in 1926 as part of the Skokie Valley Route of the North Shore Line. It was built to the highest standards of electric railway with steam road ballast, 100 lbs rail and overhead cantenary that supported big freight locomotives.

As for the Howard Line, that was also originally constructed as a steam road by the Milwaukee Road, before electrification and elevation in the teens. That also supported
big frieght until the early 1960s. And, catenary ran on the Red Line as far south as Granville from Howard, An interchange existed with the Milwaukee Road at Wilson Avenue.

As far as differences berween our eL and the MTA, our guage is the same But we have short cars like those that ran on the 3rd Ave eL in Manhattan through the 1950s.Yet the Chicago eL structures, while having short cars and shart curves, do support heavy weights as the old eL had various freight traffic when it was private.

Any train fan will also tell anybody that third rail does not imply "light weight"! Check out
some of the Penn Lines! Also, does anybody remember the heavy old 4000s on the CTA ?

That actually was meant to be a question...what is "light rail" ?? I am not sure Chicago has an example, except maybe at O'Hare.

Here are some not so light "Great Third Rail" cars to the west of Chicago.