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Old June 19th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #21
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
I'm glad that we sign the specific locations instead of setting "motto" signs like in Italy, which confuse the driver and create situation unawareness. All speed cameras in Spain are signed, like in France or the UK.


It doesn't seem so confusing...
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Old June 19th, 2014, 07:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post

I'm glad that we sign the specific locations instead of setting "motto" signs like in Italy, which confuse the driver and create situation unawareness. All speed cameras in Spain are signed, like in France or the UK.
Here in Brazil too.











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Last edited by xrtn2; June 19th, 2014 at 07:46 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 08:31 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As far as I can tell, every single speed camera in Sweden and Norway is signed in advance. This is really effective to get traffic to drive the posted speed limit.
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Originally Posted by verreme View Post
All speed cameras in Spain are signed, like in France or the UK.
That's interesting; so Germany follows a very different "philosophy". Most cameras in Germany are not signed. Police and enforcement forces are regularly stating that "drivers have to count always and everywhere on their speed being controlled".

One also should mention that German speeding fines are moderate in comparison with other Western European countries. Enforcement follows the "lawn mower" principle: if you regularly trim your lawn, you don't need to cut much every time (i.e. when controls occur frequently, you do not need to impose high fines).
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Old June 19th, 2014, 09:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
In Spain we have several types. In most of the country you'll find this on:



Version with white background for non-motorways:

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn2.************/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRta_q-iv8iejc5SC-gyO55rehkV7ueqX4NFhaLSfk7Q2dveu-9[/IMG]
"Por su seguridad" (for your safety) is doublespeak. If anything, the sign should read "Por su din€ro" (for your mon€y).
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Old June 19th, 2014, 10:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Scandinavian drivers are more controlled. They don't drive at very high speeds, even if the road allows to do that. Sure, some people speed up after such a sign, but it's not like they are driving as fast as the road allows. Most people stay within a reasonable margin of the speed limit.
Not because people are controlled, but because of crazy speeding fines.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 11:03 PM   #26
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Otherwise they would drive 170 km/h everywhere they can, like in Poland? I doubt that. Scandinavians drive defensively. That is also reflected in the fact that (except perhaps for Finland), Scandinavian countries are in the top 5 safest countries in Europe.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 12:19 AM   #27
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Speed doesn't kill, carelessness does.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 01:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malina PL View Post
Poland:


"Speed control"

"Speed camera"
And behind this sign, is box for camera, but not always there is camera inside the box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tiburon View Post
"Por su seguridad" (for your safety) is doublespeak. If anything, the sign should read "Por su din€ro" (for your mon€y).
Indeed it is quite insulting. I wonder how the sign can persist without "modification"
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Old June 20th, 2014, 08:39 AM   #29
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Speed doesn't kill, carelessness does.
Plain wrong.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 12:07 PM   #30
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In Italy there's not a standard sign for speed cameras:









On motorways:



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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 12:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Otherwise they would drive 170 km/h everywhere they can, like in Poland? I doubt that. Scandinavians drive defensively. That is also reflected in the fact that (except perhaps for Finland), Scandinavian countries are in the top 5 safest countries in Europe.
It's even more surprising considering that those countries have icy and snowy roads for several months a year.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 03:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Otherwise they would drive 170 km/h everywhere they can, like in Poland? I doubt that.
I believe that there are shades of gray in the World, too, not black and white extremes only.

Quote:
Scandinavians drive defensively. That is also reflected in the fact that (except perhaps for Finland), Scandinavian countries are in the top 5 safest countries in Europe.
But where is the chicken and where is the egg?

For instance, the key traffic safety indicator, fatalities per traffic performance (=kilometers driven), is currently about one sixth of the peak value of early 1970's in Finland. The most dramatic drop took place in late 1970's when the country-wide speed limits and compulsory seat belts were introduced. I am pretty sure that the figures were rather different without strict traffic control measures. If you drive 170 km/h on any road in Finland, you can say goodbye to your driving license for months.

My feeling, based on experience, is that the traffic culture in Denmark and Sweden is gradually turning more aggressive, less aggressive and more disciplined in Finland, and staying flat in Norway.

Last edited by MattiG; June 20th, 2014 at 03:33 PM. Reason: typo
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Old June 20th, 2014, 03:47 PM   #33
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Nobody's a saint. Changes in behaviour depend solely on enforcement.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 03:51 PM   #34
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Not common sense and a wish to live another day?
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Old June 20th, 2014, 04:10 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Not common sense and a wish to live another day?
Everybody wants to live another day, it's human, but why some drive according to this and others don't? Because everybody wants to go faster and more careless, but some are punished and some others aren't.

The super-safe Swiss, in Italy drive at warp speed, because our radar tickets don't get to Switzerland.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 04:50 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
The super-safe Swiss, in Italy drive at warp speed, because our radar tickets don't get to Switzerland.
... and because, even if caught on the spot, the fines for serious excesses are way below Swiss ones.
Of course by far not all Swiss drivers forget rules once behind the border; the majority of Swiss-plated vehicles I see outside CH obey the rules.

Plus, if a Swiss driver has his driver's license suspended abroad, and the Swiss authority gets to know this, he will likely have his license suspended in Switzerland as well. The duration of suspension in Switzerland may result well beyond that of the country the offense took place:

http://www.polyreg.ch/d/informatione....78__2002.html
(Guy caught in Italy with an excess of 55km/h on the motorway. Italian authority suspended his license for 30 days for Italy. Swiss authority back in CH suspended it for 6 months.)
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Old June 20th, 2014, 05:55 PM   #37
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Of course by far not all Swiss drivers forget rules once behind the border;
Of course.
(but Ticinese do :tongueincheek
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Old June 20th, 2014, 07:33 PM   #38
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Really effective on certain sections where the sign is posted. What about the rest? In Poland it's pretty common to slow down behind this sign and simply increase speed once you pass the camera.
In Podkarpackie they even post actual the distance to the fotoradar, so if you're unfamilliar with the area you even have the luxury of being able to maintain your cruising speed for whatever amount of metres the sign says.

Also, in Małopolska, one can even just ignore these signs all together, as none of the cameras which are not bright yellow (the ones maintained by GITD) are actually active. Even with these, you only need to slow down to 75-80 for a second or two, and you can speed right up again...
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Old June 20th, 2014, 08:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Finland trusts the Rolleiflex cameras from 1950's.



Youngsters may not recognize that symbol referring to a camera.
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Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
In Estonia:
Smaller sign:
Estonia pretty much copied the Finnish design for a speed camera...like we do with a lot of other things as well I remember that when I was travelling in Finland with my family as a child, I thought those signs indicated a scenic spot for taking photos

Anyways, I'd say that a lot of the road and traffic engineering ideas used in Estonia are taken straight from Finland or Sweden.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 08:45 PM   #40
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That's interesting; so Germany follows a very different "philosophy". Most cameras in Germany are not signed. Police and enforcement forces are regularly stating that "drivers have to count always and everywhere on their speed being controlled".
I seem to remember that when cameras were introduced in France and mapmakers duly started showing camera locations on their maps the government either asked or forced them to stop....
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