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Old November 6th, 2014, 05:41 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
Of course there is the relation to New York... Jersey City is the second largest city in New Jersey, and is reinventing itself after long being known as a working class industrial town. None of the other cities and towns in Hudson County, where Jersey City is located, have anything near the potential of skyline nor seem to want it though they are right across the Hudson River just as Jersey City. The transformation wasn't inevitable even if we are seen as an extension of New York City... we're the ones taking advantage of that and it makes our skyline's emergence no less impressive.
Not true, at all.

All the NJ communities facing NY are getting lots of development. There's tons of development, from Fort Lee, to Bayonne. Jersey City just happens to be the biggest city facing NY, and has the most generous zoning.

Jersey City isn't even the most desirable city for developers. Hoboken and Weehawken, generally speaking, have the highest residential prices, and Edgewater is usually more expensive than Jersey City. But these cities are comparatively small compared to JC.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 07:26 AM   #62
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Not true, at all.

All the NJ communities facing NY are getting lots of development. There's tons of development, from Fort Lee, to Bayonne. Jersey City just happens to be the biggest city facing NY, and has the most generous zoning.

Jersey City isn't even the most desirable city for developers. Hoboken and Weehawken, generally speaking, have the highest residential prices, and Edgewater is usually more expensive than Jersey City. But these cities are comparatively small compared to JC.
I beg to differ, big time. The scale isn't there, though of course major development is happening there. I'm specifically talking of the scale in development... Hoboken Weehawken, Edgewater and Bayonne.... Union City and West New York for that matter have positives but they just aren't Jersey City for the full potential of attractions... business, retail, restaurants, entertainment, culture, transportation. When future generations of Manhattanites look across the Hudson, it's the Jersey City skyline that will by far make the most impression.

Soon the Journal Square area will be going through a major modernization, and it's starting now with several new or renovated buildings in the area. The West Side where I live will soon be undergoing a major transformation. It's not just downtown/waterfront anymore, yet these will see a lot more building as well. Edgewater is pretty much Bergen County suburb, Weehawken is tiny, Hoboken limits growth both by its small size and strong aversion to build tall... Bayonne is a nice small city, but no one is confusing its potential with Jersey City either. If you read my post, what I'm emphasizing is its skyline growth potential. Fort Lee is getting a couple nice new tall buildings but it's not Jersey City either.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 02:18 PM   #63
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Not true, at all.

All the NJ communities facing NY are getting lots of development. There's tons of development, from Fort Lee, to Bayonne. Jersey City just happens to be the biggest city facing NY, and has the most generous zoning.

Jersey City isn't even the most desirable city for developers. Hoboken and Weehawken, generally speaking, have the highest residential prices, and Edgewater is usually more expensive than Jersey City. But these cities are comparatively small compared to JC.
Bayonne , Weehawken , Edgewater , and Union City are keeping it low rise... Hoboken , Jersey City & Fort Lee are the only cities that will allow Skyscrapers and Super Talls. The Only section of Weehawken that is seeing Development is along Hudson riverfront which was formerly a Industrial wasteland. The Upper portion of Weehawken is all developed and NIMBYS would kill anything large scale. Weehawken and most of the Gold Coast Cities and towns would like to keep things small and quiet... Jersey City , Hoboken and Fort Lee are the hub cities and don't mind attracting loud , large scale redevelopments... The only place that Hoboken will allow Skyscrapers is along the outer perimeter of the Rail Yard. Plans for the rest of backside of Hoboken is low rise mixed used block style buildings... Jersey City is the only city in the Gold Coast where we will see a Supertall. Jersey City , Downtown Newark ,Downtown New Brunswick , Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn are the only areas that can support a cluster of Skyscrapers & Super talls.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 06:31 PM   #64
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Jersey City , Downtown Newark ,Downtown New Brunswick , Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn are the only areas that can support a cluster of Skyscrapers & Super talls.
I'd also add Long Island City, Queens to the list. And in the very distant future the Bronx, White Plains, Flushing, and Staten Island.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 07:07 PM   #65
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Even Hoboken when poised with the New Jersey Transit land proposal for several large towers was met with community outrage.... there is a great reluctance to go taller than even the W hotel, which is 275 ft, not even real skyscraper height and if we go by the definitions on this site less than even official high rise(300-649FT). It's very unlikely Hoboken will even have supertalls on its border with Jersey City, which probably will build in their part of the TNJ land sometime in the future. I agree with Nexis except maybe with Edgewater which may go high rise on its waterfront but still is limited in that kind of developable land because of size and zoning. Fort Lee may be the most ambitious and doable with its connection with the George Washington Bridge with its recent two tower complex and several others in the pipeline though again the scope wouldn't be as widespread

I totally agree with Nexis and Teslatron about the other skyline clusters... Newark particularly here in New Jersey and parts of Brooklyn and Queens in New York.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 07:53 PM   #66
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I'd also add Long Island City, Queens to the list. And in the very distant future the Bronx, White Plains, Flushing, and Staten Island.

Do the LGA flight paths and height limits affect Flushing?
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Old November 8th, 2014, 12:03 AM   #67
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I'm specifically talking of the scale in development... Hoboken Weehawken, Edgewater and Bayonne.... Union City and West New York for that matter have positives but they just aren't Jersey City for the full potential of attractions... business, retail, restaurants, entertainment, culture, transportation. When future generations of Manhattanites look across the Hudson, it's the Jersey City skyline that will by far make the most impression.
Totally disagree. These communities are generally more expensive and desirable than Jersey City. Hoboken is, by far, the most "developed", Manhattan-like community on the Jersey waterfront.
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If you read my post, what I'm emphasizing is its skyline growth potential. Fort Lee is getting a couple nice new tall buildings but it's not Jersey City either.
Ok, but this has nothing to do with relative desirability. Newark has far more "skyline growth potential" than Greenwich Village, but doesn't mean Newark is more urban, desirable or dense than Greenwich Village. Newark just doesn't have NIMBYs and tough zoning like Greenwich Village.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 09:16 PM   #68
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Do the LGA flight paths and height limits affect Flushing?
To my knowledge, yes. I think that they'll let you build, but not too high.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #69
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I just hope they're not depending on a casino to make the numbers work given the disaster down in Atlantic City. A good project should be able to earn its own keep...especially one so close to NYC.
Casinos are no longer a viable option. Unless you build them as part of a bigger resort. But so far there is only one in AC - Harrah.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 07:41 PM   #70
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I think in this location it can be very much so, being as it isn't only a casino(and more of a high roller one than a typical day tripper Atlantic City casino) but hotel, condos, conference center, retail, plus a wheel (I know in conflict with Staten Island's, but with even better views). Though the area is currently pretty isolated, hell rather go there than anything that would be planned for the Meadowlands.... directly overlooking the Hudson and Manhattan with a height of roughly 1,400ft it would be breathtaking. I just love the vision, though it's very possible it won't get built the man behind it developed the current Liberty Golf Course, and that cost a ton to develop from toxic brownfields to a major PGA sanctioned golf course.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 07:47 PM   #71
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I think in this location it can be very much so, being as it isn't only a casino(and more of a high roller one than a typical day tripper Atlantic City casino) but hotel, condos, conference center, retail, plus a wheel (I know in conflict with Staten Island's, but with even better views). Though the area is currently pretty isolated, hell rather go there than anything that would be planned for the Meadowlands.... directly overlooking the Hudson and Manhattan with a height of roughly 1,400ft it would be breathtaking. I just love the vision, though it's very possible it won't get built the man behind it developed the current Liberty Golf Course, and that cost a ton to develop from toxic brownfields to a major PGA sanctioned golf course.
there is no question here that the view is spectacular. I am just not sure if people are ready to pay the same prices for apartments as in 57th street.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #72
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there is no question here that the view is spectacular. I am just not sure if people are ready to pay the same prices for apartments as in 57th street.
Especially when the only residential neighborhood within walking distance is... well, let's just say Greenville is not a nice neighborhood. At all. Or somewhere anyone wants to live.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 10:36 PM   #73
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Greenville is bad in certain parts, but hell not all... it's pretty working middle class livable in many places. I lived there all my life until recently, where now I'm on the West Side near the light rail which at least has a well lit bus station/playground lot.

Like I said, the development may never wind up getting built.. but who would have thought rich people would want to golf on a course built over a brownfield, next to a well loved national park that was built over similar material. The guy who envisioned and built the golf course is envisioning this, and it has a spectacular view of the Hudson and Manhattan you just aren't going to get from the Manhattan side no matter how fashionable. We'll just have to see if it gets momentum... as it wouldn't merely be a casino but have retail, hotel, condos, conference center and possible high volume attractions like a wheel... this would stand a far better shot because of who would build it than most seemingly pie in the sky ideas.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 11:03 PM   #74
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I'll admit, 432 Park Avenue genuinely looks better in New Jersey.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 11:20 PM   #75
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Not true, at all.

All the NJ communities facing NY are getting lots of development. There's tons of development, from Fort Lee, to Bayonne. Jersey City just happens to be the biggest city facing NY, and has the most generous zoning.

Jersey City isn't even the most desirable city for developers. Hoboken and Weehawken, generally speaking, have the highest residential prices, and Edgewater is usually more expensive than Jersey City. But these cities are comparatively small compared to JC.
I agree, I was at a wedding reception in Edgewater Saturday night and there was tons of development along the river driving up from 495 around the Lincoln Tunnel .
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Old November 11th, 2014, 12:46 AM   #76
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I'll admit, 432 Park Avenue genuinely looks better in New Jersey.
Maybe you should look up the buildings on Park Avenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Avenue (under notable structures). 432 PA fits in perfectly.
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Old November 11th, 2014, 06:27 AM   #77
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Not really.. Looks much better on NYC.. That tower looks so out of proportion.
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Old November 12th, 2014, 04:08 AM   #78
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I'd also add Long Island City, Queens to the list. And in the very distant future the Bronx, White Plains, Flushing, and Staten Island.
Not sure about Staten Island. Even with a subway connection (which won't happen ANY time soon), it probably won't exceed existing downtown Brooklyn levels of skyscraper density.

I think Flushing, parts of the Bronx, and Fort Lee are the most ripe for new skyscraper development.
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Old November 12th, 2014, 08:13 AM   #79
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White Plains?
That will happen when Westchester gets over it's nimby-ist tendencies, decides to think big in terms of it's cities, and views itself as something other than an appendage to New York City. This is scheduled to happen when pigs fly.
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Old November 14th, 2014, 07:33 AM   #80
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Maybe you should look up the buildings on Park Avenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Avenue (under notable structures). 432 PA fits in perfectly.
Maybe you should realize a crummy list of "notable buildings" when you see one, because the Lever House or Seagram Building aren't even mentioned.

Besides, 432 Park Avenue was built more up-street where there's greater concentrations of classical buildings, that used to be prevalent in the area which most said "notable buildings" replaced. The replacement should have been something classical.

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Not really.. Looks much better on NYC.. That tower looks so out of proportion.
Looking from Central Park, what was once a romantic postcard view of The Pierre, Sherry-Netherland, Plaza Hotel, and even the rather ubiquitous General Motors Building is now sodomized by a disproportionate concrete box. Pardon me, stick.

At least in Jersey City, there are a lot more redevelopment opportunities to make it seem less disproportionate, although I think it complements 30 Hudson Street quite nicely.
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