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Old November 14th, 2014, 03:02 PM   #81
hunser
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@RegentHouse: I don't think you've ever walked along Park Avenue. That street is the epitome of classy and conservative. So 432 PA fits in perfectly. See here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...ostcount=14258
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Old November 14th, 2014, 07:05 PM   #82
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I have walked Park Avenue, considering I'm not stupid enough to think the picture you show with 432 PP is the street itself.

Also, I'm not referring to it being out of place architecturally. If an area already has varying different generations of buildings, it's good to have a mixture of old and new. However, when you replace the old with something of inferior quality, that's an atrocity on its own right.

Park Avenue buildings closer to 432 PA...

417 Park Avenue

http://www.bhsmanagement.com/Photos/Property/94/0/500

Ritz Tower

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ark_57_jeh.JPG

470 Park Avenue

http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.c...0-park-ave.jpg

480 Park Avenue

https://www.flickr.com/photos/168019...7632023044535/

485 Park Avenue

http://www.bhsmanagement.com/Photos/Property/108/0/500

Why would anybody approve of replacing this with such a repulsive eyesore?
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Old November 14th, 2014, 08:15 PM   #83
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How did a thread about a Jersey City supertall turn into a discussion about Park Avenue?
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Old November 14th, 2014, 09:38 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatFan9 View Post
How did a thread about a Jersey City supertall turn into a discussion about Park Avenue?
welcome to a skyscraper forum
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Old November 14th, 2014, 11:16 PM   #85
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Certain areas can support Supertalls while other areas can't...it usually comes down to Mass Transit and Capacity. Not every city needs a supertall or Skyscraper....just a few cities in this region. What this region needs is increased Density in Semi-Suburban cities. I used past plans and zoning to come up with the list below. NIMBYs aren't as big a problem in this region , it often comes down to Mass Transit being below capacity to handle large scale projects and the FAA height restrictions.. But there are still a decent amount of areas where you can build in Supertalls and Skyscrapers. Theres around 65 billion in backlogged Urban & Regional Rail Projects that would allow for more up zoning in some of those High Rise cities. The Urban Jersey Light Rail Expansion would cause a Skyscraper & Supertall boom in places like Newark , Fort Lee and Elizabeth... A lot of large scale plans in NJ and CT are attached to Rail upgrades or New lines altogether so if the line isn't touched. The Development rarely gets built or its watered down. There are smaller low rise TOD projects happening all over this region , they tend to just plug into an existing Bus line or Rail station without an issue... But the larger ones demand a Major expansion.. Most of the time they will get it , at the expense of a new corridor or a different upgrade. Thus setting back other projects...

Supertalls
-Downtown Jersey City
-Journal Square - Jersey City
-Downtown Newark
-Midtown Manhattan
-Lower Manhattan
-Downtown Brooklyn
-Long Island City

Skyscrapers
-Downtown Stamford
-Downtown New Haven
-Downtown New Brunswick
-Downtown White Plains
-Fort Lee
-Hoboken
-Downtown New Rochelle
-Jamaica Center


High Rises
-Downtown Yonkers
-Harbourpoint Bridgeport
-Hackensack
-Downtown Paterson
-Flushing
-Coney Island
-Midtown Elizabeth
-Elizabethport
-Fleetwood - Mount Vernon
-Downtown Mount Vernon
-South Norwalk
-Wall Street - Norwalk
-Poughkeepsie
-Harrison
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Last edited by Nexis; November 14th, 2014 at 11:26 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 10:51 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatFan9 View Post
How did a thread about a Jersey City supertall turn into a discussion about Park Avenue?
it is relevant to the design at hand which everyone of us here wants to be something special and innovative.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 10:55 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by LastConformist View Post
Especially when the only residential neighborhood within walking distance is... well, let's just say Greenville is not a nice neighborhood. At all. Or somewhere anyone wants to live.
Jersey city went a long way from being an openly dangerous, to undesirable, to so so, to fair place as it is now. It is a not a perfect place and it is not a prime location yet, but given its proximity to downtown Manhattan and Path train connection to it I can bet this is going to be one hot spot in the next 100 years or so. So the idea is - buy there now so you can one day get a huge profit by selling it. But I just want to see if something that bold is actually possible in there now. 20 years from today - it will be for sure. But now... I am not sure
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Old November 15th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #88
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I agree the city's not quite there yet but there is a lot to like about certain areas, and the potential is there for much more positive growth. I'm hoping John's uncertainty about the time to start getting bold being now is proved wrong, and the early birds who bid successfully on the expansive potential start lining up sooner rather than later. I'm one of those who believe if someone takes that leap of faith, it's inevitable it will result in a lot more doing so as well. Look at Journal Square.... KRE is FINALLY making a stand in large scale developing starting the first tower of the three tower Journal Squared project after those behind the two tower city center project have dithered for years and still continue to. This move by KRE will result in Journal Square's revitalization finally going into full swing so it can become a living, breathing true city center as it had meant to have become. Same here... if Liberty Rising starts it will quicken the pace Jersey City becomes much more valued and regarded because of its easy connections into New York City.
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Old November 16th, 2014, 07:16 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
Park Avenue buildings closer to 432 PA...
This is totally inaccurate. You picked the 10% of remaining prewar buildings on Park Avenue, and ignored the 90% of modern buildings that look similar to 432 Park. And every building you posted, except for one, is in a totally different neighborhood and zoning district than 432 Park, and that one building is likely to be demolished in the coming years anyways.

And 432 Park is like 1000x better than its predecessor, which was a no-style prewar deemed unworthy of landmarks protection (unlike all the prewars you just listed, except the one likely to be demolished).

And the fact you think 432 Park is a "repulsive eyesore" while you simultaneously think that the Landmarks Commission has no standards (which is 100% composed of preservationists) shows you have no argument. You're disagreeing with basically everyone, both preservationists and pro-development types. You have a position that is in opposition to everyone.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 11:35 PM   #90
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if you were ever wondering what a supertall tower designed by a casino architect would look like...

WSJ - New Jersey Considers Vote on Casinos in Northern Part of State

Quote:
By Heather Haddon
Updated June 2, 2015 9:19 p.m. ET

[...]
Plans for a $4 billion casino complex adjacent to Liberty National Golf Course on the waterfront in Jersey City are also in the works. Billionaire investor Paul Fireman is proposing a high-end resort featuring a 90-story hotel, 14 restaurants, a theater and a complex of pools on a 200-acre site that would be linked to New York City by ferry service, people familiar with the plan said.

While developers are armed with blueprints, lawmakers in Trenton remain divided on whether—and how quickly—a referendum should be placed before voters to authorize the largest expansion of gambling in the state since a 1976 vote legalized casinos in Atlantic City.
[...]
Developers of the Liberty Rising project have continued to refine the plans since elements were first made public last year. It no longer features a Ferris wheel that was billed as the largest in the world at the time, the people said. The number of hotel rooms has been reduced to about 1,500 from the 3,000 originally proposed, and a racetrack has been eliminated, the people said.

The Liberty Rising proposal is projected to generate at least $1.5 billion in gambling revenue a year and create 6,000 permanent jobs. Unlike the Meadowlands plan, its backers are looking to pay the current 8% casino tax along with an additional 5% to set aside in a fund to benefit Atlantic City and other projects.
[...]

Quote:
Billionaire investor Paul Fireman is proposing a $4 billion casino complex on the waterfront in the Jersey City. Photo: Friedmutter Group Architects
These guys are based in Vegas.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 02:03 AM   #91
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Needs a LOT of work. And making it more an exclusive high end, with few if anything of interest or accessibility to the general public.. not helpful. I hope our mayor sees this and says... NOT this! I don't want a Las Vegas wannabe but a tower worthy of proudly soaring across the Hudson and looking towards Manhattan. I can't see him supporting this, as is and I wouldn't support it..an insult Jersey City would be better without. Go back to the drawing boards or forget it.

And those hoping for a casino in the Meadowlands... what onEarth are the designers of the Hard Rock casino they want to go there thinking? A COMPLETE MESS.

Last edited by citybooster; June 4th, 2015 at 02:20 AM.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 02:50 AM   #92
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eeerrrr... not so great.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 04:44 AM   #93
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I am glad to see that this is more serious than I thought l, but that design is really awful. And it looks like a real place holder. Hopefully they hire a real architect. Honestly I think a Hadid or Gang design would work well.

Edit: AS+GG is my top pick.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 05:35 AM   #94
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Compared to the one that Hard Rock Café is doing for their proposed casino in the Meadowlands however, its great. That attempt is a complete mess. This is just too Vegas-y... we're not on the strip and I was expecting more a classic tower, hotel on lower levels and higher level condos. I truly hope it is a placeholder, and they either get another architect or make substantial changes...needs to be cleaner, much less bulky.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 09:24 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
Compared to the one that Hard Rock Café is doing for their proposed casino in the Meadowlands however, its great. That attempt is a complete mess. This is just too Vegas-y... we're not on the strip and I was expecting more a classic tower, hotel on lower levels and higher level condos. I truly hope it is a placeholder, and they either get another architect or make substantial changes...needs to be cleaner, much less bulky.
Hard Rock Meadowlands reminds me of the recent American Dream megamall proposed in Miami. Just a flashy wonderland of pointless nonsense.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #96
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The still unopened mall at the Meadowlands is bad enough. This makes the Meadowlands totally avoidable... I'd rather go down to AC then ever try this disaster. And I rarely gamble.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 07:22 PM   #97
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Casinos destroy communities and families. I'm really not a prude, but go to Atlantic City. The unemployment rate is 18.3% there. You can't tell me that gambling is good for the economy.
As for the architecture.....do I even need to critique those renderings?
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Old June 4th, 2015, 08:07 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
Hard Rock Meadowlands reminds me of the recent American Dream megamall proposed in Miami. Just a flashy wonderland of pointless nonsense.
speaking of which... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands



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Old June 6th, 2015, 02:00 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by tmb-ingville View Post
Casinos destroy communities and families. I'm really not a prude, but go to Atlantic City. The unemployment rate is 18.3% there. You can't tell me that gambling is good for the economy.
As for the architecture.....do I even need to critique those renderings?
Isn't wall-street a kind of casino?
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Old June 6th, 2015, 03:00 PM   #100
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Horrendous. They should of had Robert A. M Stern design it.
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