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Old July 30th, 2013, 06:05 PM   #2481
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They do paint them in Washington too.

> 747: PAE and PDX
> 777: PAE and PDX
> 787: PAE and FTW

CHS doesn't have a paint hangar.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 09:55 PM   #2482
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The Qatar 787 that is now being painted in Forth Worth is assembled in Charleston where Boeing has no paint hangar... yet. It should get one as part of the big expansion plans in Charleston.


The paint hangars at Everett don't have the capacity to keep up with the increased production rate of the 777 and 787 program plus the couple of 747s and 767s that also need to be painted. Boeing does prefer to use the paint hangars in Everett for the 787 that are assembled there, only a few have flown elsewhere to be painted.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 09:38 AM   #2483
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Low and slow Dreamliner

About 4.5 hours ago using Flightradar24 I noticed a Boeing company 787 rego N787BK flying just north of L.A. It tracked to Livermore C.A.
Can any one explain why it was only flying at 160 kts and 8500 feet for the entire trip.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 10:53 AM   #2484
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That's a mistake on flightradar, N787BK is a Beech King Air 100 not a 787.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 11:49 AM   #2485
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ET LN39 delivery flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/E...630Z/KPAE/HAAB
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Old July 31st, 2013, 06:16 PM   #2486
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Just go out and lease some 787s...

C'mon FlyDubai.... You have access to cash - go out and lease 10-15 787-800/900s from the big leasing companies and get into the medium/long haul game!!!! The 787s are not a part of EK's fleet so they won't be confused with EK aircraft and the operating economics will allow for continued low fares for typical airfare-conscious FlyDubai passengers. With primarily large 777, A380s and upcoming A350s, EK does not have the equipment to always match the low-fare competitors and leisure-specific destinations. The EK A330s are leaving and FlyDubai will not be able to easily connect Southeast Asia with 737-800s. Obviously A330s would work for FD too (and likely available sooner), but their operating economics are not as great as the 787 (when they are not broken on the ground) and the A330s would not be a great selling point or a differentiator vs. AirAsiaX and others.

If FlyDubai does not make a move for this market, AirAsia X, Scoot and Norwegian Longhaul (in addition to cheap Chinese travel alternatives) will fill the void for low-cost leisure travel between Europe/ME and Southeast Asia and Australia. There will always be more customers who are willing to pay less than pay more for travel - especially to leisure/holiday destinations. The low-cost market to Southeast Asia from the ME and Europe is there and ready to be tapped. The question is: can FlyDubai take advantage of their existing infrastructure and brand name in the ME before the other LCCs move in to fill the void? 7 hour 737-800 flights probably won't be sufficient.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 07:59 PM   #2487
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Is Air India finally ready to take delivery, is it again delayed because of a technical issue..

Quote:
[B]Snag stalls Boeing 787 delivery to Air India [/]

New Delhi: A Dreamliner scheduled for delivery to Air India Ltd is stuck in the US over a snag, adding to the litany of faults associated with Boeing Co. ’s 787s

The snag was uncovered during a so-called “customer-acceptance flight”, said a person aware of the development who declined to be named. The fault was in the transformer rectifier unit which powers the cockpit display and other critical functions, including the brakes, said the person.
“Boeing is doing a complete replacement of the P300 panel on the aircraft. There would be a test flight and then it will come here if all goes well,” said this person.
full article:
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/9O...Air-India.html

The 787 in question was used at last months Paris Air Show as part of the flying display.

But these things happen, the Ethiopian 787 that flew away late last night was also 2 days delayed because of a technical issue. It doesn't help that these planes have been parked so long at the factory because of the grounding and other issues.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 10:13 PM   #2488
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LN117 ZA291 N29907 United Airlines delivered according to some messages on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/UnitedFleetWebs/...63268807839744

stats:
United: 7
July: 7
2013: 24
Total: 73



The snag with the VT-ANN for Air India yesterday seems to be fixed, it's up for another costumer flight tonight. It could still be contractually delivered today if all goes well.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE242
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Old July 31st, 2013, 11:48 PM   #2489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Is Air India finally ready to take delivery, is it again delayed because of a technical issue..


full article:
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/9O...Air-India.html

The 787 in question was used at last months Paris Air Show as part of the flying display.

But these things happen, the Ethiopian 787 that flew away late last night was also 2 days delayed because of a technical issue. It doesn't help that these planes have been parked so long at the factory because of the grounding and other issues.
It's these types of articles that lead the average person to believe that this plane is a "lemon". Hysteria sells papers and gets more page views I suppose.

On a related note, can anyone tell me if those Honeywell beacon wiring issues are a Honeywell issue or a Boeing issue? Was the pinched wiring in the unit itself, or was the wire pinched when a Boeing employee installed it?

Lastly, as a proud South Carolinian who is tired of those folks in Puget Sound calling the Boeing workers here hillbillys, welfare queens, shoeless Joes, etc, it appears to me that most of the planes that have had issues are coming out of Everett. Maybe that's because they have produced most of the 787's currently in service, but it is still noteworthy (in my humble, Southern opinion).
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Old August 1st, 2013, 02:27 AM   #2490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cthighflyer View Post
Just go out and lease some 787s...

C'mon FlyDubai.... You have access to cash - go out and lease 10-15 787-800/900s from the big leasing companies and get into the medium/long haul game!!!! The 787s are not a part of EK's fleet so they won't be confused with EK aircraft and the operating economics will allow for continued low fares for typical airfare-conscious FlyDubai passengers. With primarily large 777, A380s and upcoming A350s, EK does not have the equipment to always match the low-fare competitors and leisure-specific destinations. The EK A330s are leaving and FlyDubai will not be able to easily connect Southeast Asia with 737-800s. Obviously A330s would work for FD too (and likely available sooner), but their operating economics are not as great as the 787 (when they are not broken on the ground) and the A330s would not be a great selling point or a differentiator vs. AirAsiaX and others.

If FlyDubai does not make a move for this market, AirAsia X, Scoot and Norwegian Longhaul (in addition to cheap Chinese travel alternatives) will fill the void for low-cost leisure travel between Europe/ME and Southeast Asia and Australia. There will always be more customers who are willing to pay less than pay more for travel - especially to leisure/holiday destinations. The low-cost market to Southeast Asia from the ME and Europe is there and ready to be tapped. The question is: can FlyDubai take advantage of their existing infrastructure and brand name in the ME before the other LCCs move in to fill the void? 7 hour 737-800 flights probably won't be sufficient.
That's a good question indeed. FlyDubai can use some B787s to operate low-yield routes that its parent Emirates may not fully support at the moment, and with its fuel economics and range, the airline can operate the Dreamliner, not just to Southeast Asia, but also to India, Africa, and lower-demand destinations in Europe, not to mention high-density shuttle flights around the Middle East. And by the way, seven-hour journeys on a B737-800 may not be the most comfy experience anyone can ever have, especially with a narrow fuselage and limited seating capacity...
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:02 AM   #2491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHS787NERD View Post
On a related note, can anyone tell me if those Honeywell beacon wiring issues are a Honeywell issue or a Boeing issue? Was the pinched wiring in the unit itself, or was the wire pinched when a Boeing employee installed it?
It's a Honeywell issue, the pinched wires are inside the beacon and there's no need to open the beacon to install it in the plane. When the battery of the beacon needs to be replaced the whole beacon is replaced, Honeywell can then replace the battery.

According to some sources this actually already happened with some beacons for the 787 before they were even installed. Because of all the delays the early produced beacons have laid on the shelve for quite several years. The batteries were replaced before delivery to Boeing so they would have a full charge on installation. It's possible that the wires where pinched when this happened.

The investigation is still ongoing, so there's no official confirmation that this is exactly what happened.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:12 AM   #2492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
That's a good question indeed. FlyDubai can use some B787s to operate low-yield routes that its parent Emirates may not fully support at the moment, and with its fuel economics and range, the airline can operate the Dreamliner, not just to Southeast Asia, but also to India, Africa, and lower-demand destinations in Europe, not to mention high-density shuttle flights around the Middle East. And by the way, seven-hour journeys on a B737-800 may not be the most comfy experience anyone can ever have, especially with a narrow fuselage and limited seating capacity...
FZ may well get 787's in the future but I think the reality at the moment is its too big a step up from the 737-800.

As someone has already mentioned the best aircraft fit for FZ currently is a 757 so there is more chance of them ordering 737-900ER's (which they already have options for) and will get delivery dates a lot sooner than any 787.

I'm not clever enough to do the sums but the 737-900ER's are being used to replace 757-200's at Delta so I assume they have the legs
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Old August 1st, 2013, 10:57 AM   #2493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cthighflyer View Post
FZ may well get 787's in the future but I think the reality at the moment is its too big a step up from the 737-800.

As someone has already mentioned the best aircraft fit for FZ currently is a 757 so there is more chance of them ordering 737-900ER's (which they already have options for) and will get delivery dates a lot sooner than any 787.

I'm not clever enough to do the sums but the 737-900ER's are being used to replace 757-200's at Delta so I assume they have the legs
Just my on your thoughts:

I must say that the B787 is a great step up for FlyDubai to operate to long-haul destinations... take a look at Norwegian Air Shuttle: it started with B737s and mostly operated within Europe, then it started renting some long-haul aircraft (A340-300) to allow itself to operate to Bangkok and New York while waiting for the B787s to arrive just this year. So, FlyDubai can do a similar thing like Norwegian Air Shuttle and operate long-haul flights directly with a B787. If it cannot wait, the airline can lease a wide-body aircraft that will cater to its immediate needs (say, Dubai-Bangkok or Manila, for example) while ordering brand new aircraft. I must say that for FlyDubai to be successful in the long-haul market, it needs to introduce either a premium economy cabin or a business class product (or even both) so that it can retain its revenues while providing an upgrade in service for such long journeys.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 11:06 AM   #2494
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I f they were wanting to operate on 737

The dry operating weight of FZ's B738's is in the region of 42.2 Tonnes.

Whilst it can ostensibly hold a maximum of 21 tons of fuel, the reality is that the high temperatures in DXB (and / or the Far East) lead to the fuel having a low SG and, as such, the most likely figure for full tanks is 20 tons.

The aircraft are presently configured with 189 passenger seats, in an all economy configuration (which, if one take a 50:50 split of male:female notional weights, means that a full load of pax would ostensibly weigh in at 14.9 tons).

The maximum take-off weight of the aircraft is 79 tons.

So let's do some rough math on those numbers:

----- The wings full of fuel scenario -----

DOW (42.2T) + Fuel (20.0T) = APS (62.2T)

Possible payload = 79T - 62.2T = 16.8 Tons (always assuming that the take-off is not performance limited and that one can actually take-off at the aircraft's max-structural weight… which is not always possible ex-DXB on a hot day and / or with a QNH below standard).

So, with a full load of fuel, and typically 4.5 tons of bags & cargo, that takes the maximum allowable weight for passengers down to 12.3 tons…

This would mean that there will have to be a lot of (33) empty seats, i.e. 17.5% of the aircraft's seats will have to remain empty, in order to allow the flight to get airborne with the maximum possible fuel load (and always assume that the flight is not take-off performance limited, which would only make matters worse in terms of passenger load factor!).

In terms of range (with full tanks, and as many passengers as allowed by the take-off performance), given that the rules say that the aircraft can't land with dry tanks, let's (generously) assume that the fuel need for Alternate + Final Reserve is (only) 2.4 tons… which means that the fuel available for the sector is 17.6 tons.

When operating at high gross weights, the aircraft will burn (approx) 2.5 tons per hour, and so the available fuel for the sector equates to a maximum of 7 hours of flight time for the sector.

So it's got the legs, but not with full a full passenger load.

----- The 189 bums on seats scenario -----

If all 189 seats have bums on them, plus 4.5 tons of bags & cargo, then the ZFW is typically going to be in the order of 61.6 tons.

That then leaves 17.4 tons available for fuel (i.e. before the max structural take-off weight is reached, and which again assumes that the aircraft is not take-off performance limited).

Given that the rules say that the aircraft can't land with dry tanks, let's (generously) assume that the fuel need for Alternate + Final Reserve is (only) 2.4 tons… which means that the fuel available for the sector is 15 tons.

Again, when operating at high gross weights, the aircraft will burn (approx) 2.5 tons per hour, and so the available fuel for the sector equates to a maximum of 6 hours of flight time (but not including taxi times).

Thus, fill all the seats and the range is limiting.

Maybe if the aircraft was re-configured with a lot less seats (overall), e.g. perhaps as per the much touted change to having a 'Business Class', then that might provide a sufficient enough change in the aircraft's Dry Operating Weight... but it'd require a big change and the loss (or change) of a lot of seats, imho ?!

----- And what of the crew's FDP limits ? -----

The maximum allowable Flight Duty Period for 2 sectors, with 2 flight crew, starting at the most optimal time of start, is: 13:15 hours.

1 hour of that FDP is consumed in the pre-flight briefing, and another 45 minutes is consumed during the turn-around. That then leaves you with 11:30 to play with, i.e. for operating each sector (including taxi-out / flight / taxi-in), i.e. ostensibly 5:45 in each direction (and that's with a tight turn-around), before the flight crew hit the buffers on their FDP limit.

With an 'augmented' Flight Crew (i.e. carrying an extra Flight Crew member, which almost certainly would have to be a Captain, unless they start LHS checking the F/O's ?!) it is possible to extend the FDP by the use of in-flight rest.
That said, the following restrictions apply:
Quote:
When any additional crew member is carried to provide in-flight relief, with the intent of extending an FDP, that individual shall hold qualifications which are equal or superior to those held by the crew member who is to be rested. The division of duty and rest between those crew members being relieved will be kept in balance. It is unnecessary for the relieving crew member to rest in between the times relief is provided for other crew members.

When in-flight relief is utilised the crew member resting must be provided with comfortable reclining seat, or bunk, separated and screened from the flight deck and passengers and free from disturbance.

A total in-flight rest of less than 3 hours does not allow for the extension of an FDP, but where the total in-flight rest, which need not be consecutive, is 3
hours or more, then the FDP may be extended as follows:

Rest in a Seat: A period equal to one third of the total of rest taken, provided that the maximum FDP permissible shall be 15 hours (16 hours for cabin crew).
Needless to say, FZ's B737's do not provide such facilities as a comfortable reclining seat, in a screened off area, free from disturbance.

The other method would be to have a whole extra set of Flight Crew position outbound (to then operate the return flight), and therein as they'd only operate the one (return) sector, that means that their maximum allowable FDP would increase (by 45 minutes) to become 14 hours; but wherein the time of reporting for positioning (i.e. one hour prior to STD of the outbound sector) is the point when the clock starts to tick for the purposes of that 14 hour FDP maximum.

Nb. A quick look at the Great Circle Track from DXB to BKK - based on a (still air) Ground Speed of 430 Kts (which is typical of a B738) - shows a distance of 2651 Nm and a 'flight time' of 6:10.

Thus (based upon 'still air') an out and back from DXB to BKK would take:

1:00 hour pre-flight briefing
0:10 minute taxi-out
6:10 flight time
0:05 taxi-in
0:45 turnaround
0:10 minute taxi-out
6:10 flight time
0:05 taxi-in
= 14:35

And that's assuming absolutely everything went like clockwork ?!

Needless to say, I can't see many Commanders being overly keen to exercise 'discretion' in any of the above crewing scenarios, to say nothing of the limitations of carrying just a single set of cabin crew (and their FDP limits therein)... especially with the delights of the PatPong Road being so close ?!

Ps. High Energy: I concur with your assessment, wrt the B757... an awesome aircraft and one that I loved flying... but, failing that, some A330's would be equally welcome !

Or They could just lease Some 787's
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Old August 1st, 2013, 11:15 AM   #2495
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Whoa, that's a really comprehensive story indeed. I must say, I don't know if a B737-900ER would be capable of flying nonstop between Dubai and Bangkok, given its distance between the two, and if the passengers would be all right sitting in a narrow cabin for quite a long period of time... I mean, a B737-800 flight would work for a flight like Dubai-Dhaka, but I don't think it'll work for Bangkok. Hence, I must say a B787 would work better for this service for obvious reasons. And by the way, you've gone a bit off topic with the B737 flight calculations... but, it's good to have that argument to see if a B787 would be feasible for a low-cost carrier like FlyDubai.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 02:47 PM   #2496
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Qatar Dreamliner returns to service after 10-day hiatus

FRANKFURT/DOHA, July 31 (Reuters) - A Qatar Airways 787 Dreamliner grounded last week amid reports of a problem with an electrical panel in the aircraft has resumed flying, the airline said on Wednesday.

The jet, known as A7-BCB, landed in Frankfurt 20 minutes behind schedule at 2:00 pm (1200 GMT) after an almost six-hour flight from Doha, and passengers reported a normal flight.

"Everything was totally fine except for the lateness. They didn't tell us anything about any technical problems," said an elderly female passenger, who declined to give her name.

"They just said the lateness was due to other planes and that this plane is the best of its kind out there."

Attention has focused on the fuel-saving aircraft's unusually long 10-day downtime after a string of technical glitches affecting Boeing's state-of-the-art passenger jet.

Last week, Qatar Airways said the jet was out of service for what it described as a "minor" technical issue. It said the aircraft had not caught fire.

Two people familiar with the matter, asking not to be identified, said smoke had been reported near an electrical compartment, while the jet was on the ground in Doha.

A fire in a similar electrical bay during a test flight in 2010 prompted an emergency landing and caused "substantial damage" to the aircraft, according to the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.

In a statement on Wednesday, Qatar Airways said a delay in shipping a replacement part from Boeing "caused an extended grounding" of the Dreamliner, one of six in its fleet.

The airline did not say what part was needed or what problem occurred, but stressed it was committed to safe operations.

"Qatar Airways takes all matters affecting the safety of its passengers seriously," it said.

Qatar Airways said several replacement parts were required for the repair. After the delayed part arrived, the 787 needed three days of "post-assembly and testing" before resuming service, the airline added.

The same aircraft was returning to Qatar's capital late on Wednesday after picking up passengers in Frankfurt, having resumed commercial operations for the first time since July 21.

Another passenger on the inbound Doha-Frankfurt flight, a man in his mid-50s, said he was not concerned about the aircraft's recent technical problems.

"They told us it came out of the hangar this morning, but that's all," he told Reuters.

The 787, Boeing's newest and most advanced aircraft, uses a powerful electrical system instead of the heavy hydraulic and pneumatic equipment used on traditional jetliners.

The weight savings contribute to the jet's 20 percent fuel savings. But the 787 has suffered numerous electrical problems since its first flight in December 2009.

In January of 2013, regulators grounded the plane after lithium-ion batteries that provide backup power caught fire on two 787s within two weeks. Boeing redesigned the battery system, including a heavy steel box to contain fire, and the jetliner was allowed to return to service in April.

On July 12, fire broke out on an Ethiopian Airlines 787 at London's Heathrow airport on July 12, triggering inspections of beacons used to locate aircraft in the event of a crash.

Boeing said last week it stands by the integrity of the 787, which was cleared as safe to fly after the battery grounding.

Boeing was not immediately available to comment on Wednesday's statement from Qatar Airways.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 09:29 PM   #2497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
LN117 ZA291 N29907 United Airlines delivered according to some messages on Twitter.
Delivery flight here:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...900Z/KPAE/KDEN
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 08:22 AM   #2498
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http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...ion&source=RSS

Nice column in the Charleston Post & Courier Thursday describing a tour of the Boeing factory in North Charleston.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 12:39 PM   #2499
XWB
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Originally Posted by CHS787NERD View Post
Lastly, someone asked in this forum why the Chinese planes delivered from CHS had to make a stop instead of flying non-stop to China. The answer to that question is because CHS has two runways, and the longer one is being rebuilt. That project is just about done, but for the past year or more all flights have been taking off from the shorter runway. This means the 787's can't carry enough fuel to make it to China because the extra weight wouldn't allow the use of the shorter runway.
I assume this is the same reason why the Air India deliveries make a fuel stop in Frankfurt?

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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:28 PM   #2500
Pedro EM
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I assume this is the same reason why the Air India deliveries make a fuel stop in Frankfurt?

Welcome to the forum BTW
Thats what I thought too.
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