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Old September 22nd, 2013, 09:36 PM   #2761
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Boeing 787 -9


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Old September 23rd, 2013, 05:25 PM   #2762
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Sorry if you already say this but, whos going yo be the first airline to get the 787-9???
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 05:28 PM   #2763
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Air New Zealand.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 06:06 AM   #2764
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Norwegian Unhappy With Boeing 787-8
Quote:
Norwegian unhappy with Boeing’s 787-8
Reuters reports that Norwegian has requested a meeting with Boeing to discuss its 787 challenges. The airline has two 787s in its fleet and another three on order.

The two in service aircraft have experienced service delays; a power supply problem, a brake problem and then a hydraulic problem. According to the airline, yesterday they had another issue – oxygen supply to the cockpit on one of their 787s. The other 787 was substituted for the Oslo-JFK flight. But when this aircraft was ferried from Stockholm to Oslo, it had a load sheet problem which was fixed in Oslo. The JFK flight left four hours late. The other aircraft with the oxygen problem has been fixed and is flying to Bangkok today.Norwegian appears to be concerned with Boeing’s quality control. Reading each of the links above one notes references to “some teething problems” and “We have confidence in these aircraft, that’s why we bought them.” But the disruptions are wearing through the goodwill, as evidenced by their comments “we are going to tell them that this is far from good enough” and “clearly Boeing has not had good enough operative quality control” from a Norwegian spokesperson.

The 787-8 has been a source of frequent interruptions; ANA had another recently but still as refers to the airplane as an “indispensable aircraft”. Then there are the perennial complaints from Qatar. Not all the Qatar 787 issues have been made public.

This news was pushed to back of the headlines as Boeing first flew the 787-9 last week. The -9 appears to be a much improved aircraft. Reports indicate the derivative has benefited from the steep learning curve. We expect to see more conversions from the -8 to the -9 because it seems to be a much better airplane overall.

The 787 is now under a media microscope like no other airplane in history, magnifying each incident. Boeing does have a problem with nagging issues and quality control, which have resulted in poorer than anticipated dispatch reliability. Airlines, of course, are angered when flights are cancelled, because passengers remember the airline that cancelled the flight, not the fact that it was a Boeing issue or problem.

© 2013, airinsight.com. All rights reserved AirInsight.
http://airinsight.com/2013/09/23/nor...edium=facebook

That plus this, which was buried beneath the tidal wave of good news that was the first flight of 787-9, is not good for Boeing.

Quote:
Al Baker fires off warning to Boeing about continuing 787 problems


Qatar Airways is growing frustrated by the ongoing teething problems being suffered by its 787 fleet, warning Boeing that future orders could be in doubt unless remedies are quickly found.

The Doha-based airline has firm orders for 30 787s, of which six have been delivered, and holds 30 additional purchase rights. It aims to take all its 30 firm orders as 787-8s and is considering firming up the purchase rights as the larger -9 variant. But chief executive Akbar Al Baker says this will depend on how quickly Boeing can address the frustrations with its in-service fleet.

The outspoken CEO, who has previously been critical of problems with the airline’s 787s, says there are “still issues and Boeing is aware of that. And they need to resolve these issues very quickly because Qatar Airways is getting very frustrated with them.

“There are so many teething problems... although it is not anything major that would require us to ground our aircraft, it is enough to give us grief on our dispatch reliability,” says Al Baker.

Qatar Airways is considering whether to take up its 30 purchase rights as the stretch 787-9, but the ongoing 787-8 issues are playing into its -9 evaluation, which also includes the A350.

Qatar has 80 A350s on order, of which 42 are -900s and 38 -1000s. The airline is due to receive its first A350-900 by the end of 2014.

“We will either make a decision to take the -9, or take additional A350-1000s. And we have to decide soon,” Al Baker says. “They are different sizes, but we think that the seat-mile cost efficiency of the A350-1000 will do a better job.”

The decision about which aircraft to order will be driven by “how the problems are fixed and how we are convinced that we have confidence that the problems will be fixed. With the amount of problems they’re having with the 787-8, we don’t know if this will be translated into the -9.”

Al Baker says the airline still plans to take its 30 firm orders as 787-8s, but warns that “it all depends on how much pain we are prepared to sustain”.

Although an earlier proposal to place an order for interim A330s has cooled as A350-900 deliveries are “now so close”, Al Baker says that he may revisit that possibility if the 787 problems are not resolved: “If we have to move away from the -8 due to the issues we have, then we may look at interim A330s.”
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...oblems-390629/
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Old September 24th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #2765
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Maybe Boeing needs to sit down with their mechanics and teach them again on how to build the 787 and go over every little detail about the 787. Then Boeing needs to sit down with the airline's mechanics and teach them how to take care of the 787 so we don't hear about every possible mistake that goes on with the 787.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #2766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR66 View Post
Maybe Boeing needs to sit down with their mechanics and teach them again on how to build the 787 and go over every little detail about the 787. Then Boeing needs to sit down with the airline's mechanics and teach them how to take care of the 787 so we don't hear about every possible mistake that goes on with the 787.
Or perhaps Boeing should head back to the drawing board & use the 'old tech' approach!
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #2767
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LOT Dreamliners Spend the Weekend Grounded

Take a good look at this Boeing 787 in flight, then remember, that's not a sure thing with the troubled Dreamliner. In the most recent interruption, the six-month-old LOT Polish 787 tail number SP-LRB seen left and another plane, tail number SP-LRC were grounded for several days when mechanics discovered missing fuel filters on the planes' Rolls Royce engines.

A source tells me during testing at Boeing in Everett, Washington, mechanics at the plane maker removed the engine's fuel filters and failed to re install them. The planes were then delivered to the airline and began flying in passenger service - even though running the engines in this condition could lead to engine damage.

SP-LRB was delivered to LOT from the Everett assembly plant on December 20th, 2012. SP-LRC arrived this year on May 15th, after the 4 month grounding of Dreamliners by regulators over the winter.

These two planes operate on routes to New York, Chicago, Peking and Toronto.

I am told the fact that the filters were missing on three of the four Trent 1000 engines on these two planes, was discovered during an engine check in Warsaw. The planes were grounded immediately and Boeing sent service technicians. One plane was repaired and put back in service on Saturday and the second was flying again the following day.

Boeing spokesman Marc Birtel told me in an email that "Potential contamination could occur in a fuel system component such as a fuel system nozzle or heat exchanger." But he added that while doing the repairs, the workers "did not observe any contamination in any fuel system components on the LOT airplanes."

Still, LOT is none too happy to have had to operate without its Dreamliners even for just a few days considering what it has already been through especially since the problem seems to have its roots back at Boeing. My source tells me that Boeing is in full "Oh shit!" mode and when asked how this could have happened, Birtel said that the company is "doing a full assessment. An investigation is still underway."

In case anyone needs to be reminded, the world's newest wide-body airliner was the subject of a global grounding of the fleet of 50 planes in January, after two fire events associated to the lithium ion batteries used on 787s operated by Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways.

In July, a spokesman for LOT expressed displeasure with what he said was a dismissive attitude by Boeing in paying compensation to airlines that suffered financial losses during the grounding. LOT was said to be seeking around $30 million.

LOT's Robert Moren told Bloomberg's Justin Bachman, “Those [costs] are not probably gigantic money for Boeing, but for us—while we are in the process of restructuring—it’s quite substantial.”

By contrast, this weekend's interruption of service on two of the airline's five Dreamliners is a minor glitch. I understand that regulations allow some limited number of flight hours without filters, but left unrepaired, this situation could lead to clogged fuel nozzles or damage to the combustors. In this case, operating the engines without fuel filters caused no serious damage to the engines according to Birtel. Boeing is confident no other airplanes were delivered with missing fuel filters.

It seems that LOT has avoided a problem but whether the latest 787 event casts further doubt on the reliability of the airplane is less than clear.

http://christinenegroni.blogspot.ca/....html?spref=tw
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #2768
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The mechanics are Boeing, should they show themselves how to work?

What really should happen that after the production rate goes to 10 per month later this month all focus should go to quality control. It looks like the focus has been too much on the increase of production, which is also needed with such big backlog and on the big problems. And also on the fix of the battery and electrical issues. This seems to have extended the period of the teething problems, which the current problems clearly are.

In a way it's good that the airlines now have all these smaller issues, because now Boeing can put the focus on those and come up with the needed fixes and directives for other operators with preventive measures.


ps. In the case of Norwegian it's also a bit more dramatic since they don't have a back-up fleet like all the other current 787 operators. It's a case of a new operator for long-haul flights, with a new fleet of new aircraft. If a problem hits, it almost directly a cancellation or very long delay. You could say that it's also partly their fault for launching these flights with such new planes, that's asking for trouble.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #2769
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Amazing that there have been so many issues from planes built by the superior union workforce out in Everett (sarcasm). It will be interesting to see if any issues arise from the Qatar planes made in South Carolina. Up till now, South Carolina has only delivered planes to the two Chinese carriers and Air India, and I believe the only problem was with an oven on an AI plane.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #2770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHS787NERD View Post
Amazing that there have been so many issues from planes built by the superior union workforce out in Everett (sarcasm). It will be interesting to see if any issues arise from the Qatar planes made in South Carolina. Up till now, South Carolina has only delivered planes to the two Chinese carriers and Air India, and I believe the only problem was with an oven on an AI plane.
From a thread on a.net:

Quote:
ZA467 might be delivered this month though. we'll see. This aircraft's delivery has been delayed because Qatar's acceptance staff has been finding a lot of sqwaks on the aircraft. It had to be pulled back into the assembly hall at CHS to go through more repairs and acceptance testing.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...5864882/1/#202
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Old September 24th, 2013, 11:50 PM   #2771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post

ps. In the case of Norwegian it's also a bit more dramatic since they don't have a back-up fleet like all the other current 787 operators. It's a case of a new operator for long-haul flights, with a new fleet of new aircraft. If a problem hits, it almost directly a cancellation or very long delay. You could say that it's also partly their fault for launching these flights with such new planes, that's asking for trouble.
Perfectly said. I have not heard (knocking on wood as I type this) problems coming from ANA or JAL or other airline operators (besides LOT, Qatar or Norwegian lately). However UA or ANA or other big airlines have other aircraft that they can swap in in case of an emergency grounding or delay by the 787. Maybe Norwegian will be a lesson other airlines will learn from when it comes to launching international long haul flights with no previous experience or on a brand new type of plane. Hope Airbus is taking note on this so if problems come up with the A350 will do hear about it like the 787.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 12:07 AM   #2772
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I heard ANA always has 5 aircraft on stand-by.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 06:30 AM   #2773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XWB View Post

Thanks for posting this link. I would make the point that this is only one plane, and that Qatar last took a delivery from Everett on 8/10 (well over one month ago). If they have been having multiple issues with planes they've accepted, wouldn't it be expected that they thoroughly go through each plane from now on looking for every little thing? If I remember, this plane had to be sent back to Ft. Worth for repainting, which clearly isn't a CHS manufacturing issue, but IS evidence of a customer paying close attention to every little detail.

To my knowledge, the planes manufactured in CHS for AI & the Chinese carriers haven't had any reported issues, other than the oven on one AI plane. It just seems as though the defect rate out of Everett is higher, even though the folks out there keep ranting about their superior workforce and 100 years of experience.

Just my opinion....
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Old September 25th, 2013, 07:42 AM   #2774
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ANA took delivery of their 23rd 787.

LN120 ZA122 JA823A ANA
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANA9399


It's the 2nd delivery this month.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 09:42 AM   #2775
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Are the problem design issues or quality control issues? From what I understood it is the former, which is really par for the course or new airliners.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #2776
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Quality control was shit so far when it comes to 787's.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 01:03 PM   #2777
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Bi-classes :

- Norwegian : 291, 36-255
- Ethiopian : 270, 24-246
- Air India : 256, 18-238
- Aeromexico : 243 ,32-211
- JAL : 186, 42-144

Three-classes :

- LOT : 252, 18-21-213
- ANA :
1- 158, 46-112
2- 222, 42-180
3- 264, 12-252


I don't understand hoW Air India can have 6 business seats less than Ethiopian and 8 economic seats less. 78 inches between seats in Ethiopian ?

Does anyone know for Royal Air Maroc ?
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Old September 25th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #2778
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Quote:
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I heard ANA always has 5 aircraft on stand-by.
If its financially viable then it certainly pays off but in a real world airlines can't afford to have 5 aircraft on 'standby'
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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #2779
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Does anyone know what is happening with Ethiopian Airlines' ET-AOP/Queen of Sheba?? That btw is the aircraft which caught fire at LHR a couple of months ago. Is it getting repaired?? Are they going to repair it or is it a write off??
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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #2780
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Does anyone know what is happening with Ethiopian Airlines' ET-AOP/Queen of Sheba?? That btw is the aircraft which caught fire at LHR a couple of months ago. Is it getting repaired?? Are they going to repair it or is it a write off??
I don't think it's a write off. Even if it made sense to write it off, Boeing would do it for free to make sure it's not written off. Having said that, there've been no reports of it being a write off or even such a possibility.
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