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Old October 5th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #261
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Sixth Boeing 787 Takes Flight, Company Reports ‘Good Progress’ with Test Program

The sixth and final Boeing 787 to join the flight test fleet flew for the first time yesterday from Paine Field in Everett, Wash. The airplane, ZA006, landed at Seattle’s Boeing Field as planned, but two hours earlier than expected. A Boeing spokesperson said a maintenance message during the flight forced Captains Christine Walsh and Bill Roberson to cut short the mission “as a precautionary measure.”

ZA006, the second 787 equipped with General Electric GEnx engines to fly, took off from Paine Field at 11:41 a.m. local time and landed at Boeing Field one hour and four minutes later.

“It's great to have our last flight-test airplane join the fleet,” said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. “We have been focused on completing the testing required for certification of the 787 with Rolls-Royce engines, because that is the first model we deliver. A great deal of the testing that we’ve done also applies to the 787s with GE engines and won’t need to be repeated.”

Boeing noted, however, that a smaller portion of testing unique to the engine/airframe combination includes noise trials, extreme weather operations, function and reliability and extended operations. Furthermore, the 787 team must verify uniformity of airplane handling and systems function regardless of engine type.

Boeing said it plans to conduct some further flight tests with one of the production airplanes, the ninth 787 built, but that it does not consider that airplane a full-time member of the flight-test fleet.

Boeing reports that the Dreamliner team has completed a number of flight-test milestones in recent weeks, including a series of natural and artificial icing tests. The trials indicated no need for changes, it added, and pilots reported that the airplane handled well despite the presence of ice.

The company has also finished flight loads survey testing, which demonstrates the pressure distribution on the airplane structure throughout the phases of flight in a variety of configurations. The team conducted that testing on ZA004, primarily at the airport at Victorville, Calif. Analysis of this testing continues.

Boeing completed a series of tests that stress the airplane’s brakes, called maximum brake energy testing, in late September at Edwards Air Force Base. It used ZA001 to conduct that testing, as well as a series takeoffs and landings under extreme conditions, including minimum takeoff speed testing. Earlier in the month, ZA001 completed wet runway testing at Roswell, N.M.

The third Dreamliner, ZA003, flew to Glasgow, Mont., to complete community noise testing. All results fell within expectations.

Boeing reports that it has completed all takeoff performance and handling characteristics testing for the Rolls-Royce-powered 787. It will need to perform some further testing with the two 787s equipped with GE engines.

The 787 flight-test program has logged more than 1,900 hours over 620 flights and completed more than 65 percent of the flight-test conditions for 787s with Rolls-Royce engines. Boeing has also completed “well over” 4,000 hours of ground testing on the same airplanes involved in the flight-test program.

Meanwhile, fatigue testing has started at a test rig in Everett, where Boeing has simulated 15 flights. Federal regulations require the company to conduct twice as many flight cycles as any airplane in revenue service. Boeing plans to have completed 10,000 flight cycles before first delivery.


See also the video for the 787 tail drag, wet runway and crosswind tests.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 01:19 AM   #262
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Hello sorry I'm bringing a topic that has nothing to do with the 787 but I want to know why airbus has gained so much market against boeing I know that from 2001 to 2010 airbus has been selling more aircrafts than boieng... I want to know why? most ot the companies this days use A320 instead ot 737... or now A380 instead 0f 747... why has boeing been left behind bye the airlines??? I love boieng... 777 is an ass kicker... 373 is a great en reliable aircraft... can someone explain me the reasons...? tnx!
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Old October 8th, 2010, 01:19 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by RMPA View Post
Hello sorry I'm bringing a topic that has nothing to do with the 787 but I want to know why airbus has gained so much market against boeing I know that from 2001 to 2010 airbus has been selling more aircrafts than boieng... I want to know why? most ot the companies this days use A320 instead ot 737... or now A380 instead 0f 747... why has boeing been left behind bye the airlines??? I love boieng... 777 is an ass kicker... 373 is a great en reliable aircraft... can someone explain me the reasons...? tnx!
The answer is simple. Airbus sold more planes.

When airbus first came about, Boeing did not see them as a threat.
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Old October 9th, 2010, 12:21 AM   #264
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If Boeing ever got their big butts moving on the 787 we would see more orders for Boeing. They just keep on delaying the 787 and more airlines are seeing Boeing not as reliable. The first 787 flight for airlines was suppose to more than 2 years ago. Yet Boeing still has no commerical 787 flying yet. We still see the 787 on Airliners.net on the ground get fixed or worked on. But no commerical flights. If I was a airline CEO I would choose Airbus for airplanes. Airbus seem to be doing well with the A380. Cant wait to fly in one on an intl route.
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Old October 9th, 2010, 10:28 AM   #265
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I think it looks good

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Old October 10th, 2010, 04:35 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by GTR66 View Post
If Boeing ever got their big butts moving on the 787 we would see more orders for Boeing. They just keep on delaying the 787 and more airlines are seeing Boeing not as reliable. The first 787 flight for airlines was suppose to more than 2 years ago. Yet Boeing still has no commerical 787 flying yet. We still see the 787 on Airliners.net on the ground get fixed or worked on. But no commerical flights. If I was a airline CEO I would choose Airbus for airplanes. Airbus seem to be doing well with the A380. Cant wait to fly in one on an intl route.
Some things in the delays were out of their control. Ie. Fasteners. Plus this is the first commercial aircraft to be built mainly with composites, it's a new technology, they were bound to run into obstacles.

You do realise the A380 suffered from delays in production too, don't you? It looks like the A350 may be delayed too. It happens.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 06:58 PM   #267
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Discussion about another possible delay of 787 developement:

The report states that issues such as "a flight deck window popping sound discovered during flight test, addressing cabin condensation issues, reworking passenger doors, resolving workmanship issues on the aircraft's horizontal stabiliser and incorporating changes to the Trent 1000 engine, are among the issues that add up to slide the deliveries to the 787's earliest customers well into 2011 or potentially even 2012."
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Old November 6th, 2010, 10:16 PM   #268
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My 787 Dreamliner pictures made during the visit to Amsterdam.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 12:16 AM   #269
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Boeing has told several of its early 787 customers about delivery delays of up to 10 months, industry sources tell AVIATION WEEK.
Full story here
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Old November 10th, 2010, 05:06 AM   #270
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I posted this in a new thread, which I maybe should have put here.

DALLAS – A Boeing 787 jetliner made an emergency landing after smoke was detected in the main cabin during a test flight over Texas.
A Boeing spokeswoman said Tuesday that the plane landed safely and the crew was evacuated after landing in Laredo.
Emergency personnel were called. Boeing said it was still gathering information about the incident.
Boeing has said it will deliver the first production models of the 787 to airlines next year. Development of the aircraft is running about three years behind schedule after a series of delays.
The fuselage of the 787 is made of composite material designed to produce a lighter, more fuel-efficient plane.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #271
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Another story about the emergency landing... maybe Boeing workers been too distracted watching the news of the A380 engines?

Any ideas about the cause?

Boeing 787 Dreamliner makes emergency landing on test flight
From: NewsCore (Travel News at News.com.au), by Staff Writers, November 10, 2010 11:16AM
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/b...#ixzz14tO43wbI

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner made its long-waited first flight in December 2009. Picture: AFP

A BOEING 787 Dreamliner aircraft made an emergency landing in Texas during a test flight after smoke was reported in the cabin.

After the pilot noticed smoke, "the crew continued its approach and landed safely at the airport," Boeing spokeswoman Lori Gunter said.

"Emergency personnel responded. The crew safely evacuated the airplane."

In pictures: Aboard the Dreamliner

The 30-plus people aboard the aircraft were taken off using emergency slides, The Seattle Times reported.

Ms Gunter said it was too early to determine whether the incident would change the long-delayed aircraft's delivery schedule.

Laredo is approximately 150 miles southeast of San Antonio, on the border with Mexico.

The jetliner has been plagued by problems since the program launched in 2004 and is currently more than two years behind schedule.

Faulty parts built by Boeing's suppliers, including problems with the aircraft's tail, have caused many of the previous delays - in a change from normal production, Boeing has relied on suppliers from around the world to build large portions of the plane, before assembling the parts itself.
Boeing has 863 orders from 56 companies worth about $150 billion for the 787.

Customers include Qantas, which has ordered 50 of the aircraft with hopes of expanding its budget airline, Jetstar, into southern Europe.
The next-generation, wide-body plane is the first passenger jet to be largely built from lightweight and environmentally friendly composite material.

With a list price of around $US161 ($186) million for a basic model, it is configured in two versions - a 787-8 carrying 210-250 passengers and a 787-9 carrying almost 300 people.

In pictures: Aboard the Dreamliner


Too much time alone on ur keyboard ... Lets meetup instead
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:33 AM   #272
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Boeing reportedly set to announce another 787 delay

Boeing is set to announce a seventh delay in its 787 program, possibly pushing delivery out by another nine-months—at least—after the inflight electrical fire to its ZA002 on Nov. 9 .

On Thursday, Air Lease Corp. founder and CEO Steven Udvar-Hazy, who ordered the 787 when he was Chairman and CEO of ILFC, told Bloomberg at the ALTA Airline Leaders Forum in Panama City that the 787 will “definitely” be postponed a seventh time. “It’s a big setback for Boeing,” Udvar-Hazy said.

Boeing has now flown ZA001 and ZA005 back to Seattle from Rapid City, S.D. and Victorville, Calif. The company is tight-lipped on the status of the investigation but insiders at Qantas engineering told ATW they believe there is a “significant problem.” The Qantas Group has 50 787s on order and its Jetstar division was supposed to get delivery of its first aircraft in mid-2012 to launch nonstop services between Singapore and Europe and Australia to the US. Initially, when the order was placed, the airline group was to receive one a month from August 2008.

On Wednesday, Morgan Stanley-NY analyst Heidi Wood forecast that Boeing would not be able to deliver the 787s until 2012 in a worst case scenario, as flight testing won’t resume until early next year. Wood’s base case assumption is second half 2011.

Critical to Qantas and many other Dreamliner customers is that the 787s are supposed to replace their 767s, which are now high on hours; further delays will tax maintenance capabilities. Because the 787 delays have been rolling, few have taken investment decisions to upgrade fleets of 767s. One exception is Air New Zealand, which has given its six 767-300ERs an interior makeover with seat-back videos for all passengers while adding winglets.

The delay if confirmed will be good news for Airbus, which has chalked up over 1,100 orders for its A330.

Last year, Airbus built an all-time high of 76 A330 aircraft and has 374 yet to deliver.

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Old November 21st, 2010, 07:22 PM   #273
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787 is such a mess. Imagine another dealy after this one coz of some otehr problem.
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Old November 25th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #274
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Boeing to Redesign Parts of Dreamliner Electrical System
25 November 2010
The Wall Street Journal

Boeing Co. is making changes to the new 787 Dreamliner's electrical system and the software that runs it after an in-flight fire and subsequent power failure aboard one of the planes more than two weeks ago.

In a statement released Wednesday afternoon, Boeing said it was developing "minor design changes" to power distribution panels and updating the system software as a result of a fire that was "most likely caused by the presence of foreign debris."

The company didn't say how long it would take to finish designing the changes and then implementing them on the nearly 30 planes already completed and into plans for yet un-built Dreamliners. Chicago-based Boeing has nearly 850 Dreamliners on order.

A Boeing spokeswoman confirmed the piece of debris was a small metal object, but said the company is unsure exactly what the piece was. She denied a report in a French newspaper earlier in the week that said a worker left a metal tool in the electrical compartment, as Boeing found no evidence of an errant tool. A piece of wire or small bolt could also be the culprit, she said, but Boeing engineers were unable to find the offending piece of debris post-fire.

Boeing didn't say when the fleet of six test Dreamliners would resume airborne testing. Flight tests were halted indefinitely the day after the Nov. 9 fire, which occurred while Dreamliner No. 2 was on final approach to the Laredo, Texas, airport. That plane remains in Laredo while the other five 787s have been ferried back to Boeing's commercial airplane headquarters in Seattle.

Boeing on Wednesday didn't provide an updated delivery or certification timetable, but said it was still assessing how long it would take to implement the design changes and what effect it would have on the overall program. The company said it expected to have a new timeline finalized "in the next few weeks."

Prior to the Nov. 9 incident, which forced the 42 Boeing and Federal Aviation Administration personnel aboard the plane to evacuate using emergency slides, the aerospace firm said it was on track to deliver the first 787 to All Nippon Airways Co. sometime next February.

That delivery date is now in doubt, and analysts and industry observers now expect the first delivery to happen anytime between mid-2011 and early 2012.

The new Dreamliner is a state-of-the-art, wide-body jet made largely of carbon-fiber composite material. It is Boeing's marquee new airplane and has been beset by delays that have caused the program to fall nearly three years behind schedule.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 12:19 PM   #275
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Boeing Dreamliner 'a failure', says Qatar Airways boss

The chief executive of Qatar Airways has criticised Boeing over delays to the 787 Dreamliner, reportedly saying that it has "clearly failed".

Akbar Al Baker said he had been "taken aback" by the problems that have plagued the delivery of the aircraft, the Reuters news agency reported.

Meanwhile, Boeing has announced it is revising its schedule after a fire on a test flight earlier this month.

It had hoped to begin delivering the plane at the start of next year.

Production of 787s is about three years behind schedule, with delays mainly a result of the supply and fitting of parts.

A test flight had to be aborted on 9 November after a fire broke out on board. Boeing has blamed a piece of "foreign debris" in a power panel.

Qatar Airways has ordered a minimum of 30 Dreamliners, with the first due to be delivered in the last quarter of next year.

Speaking at a news conference in Paris, Mr Al Baker said he had not expected such delays from Boeing, because the US-based company had "pride in its quality".

"They have very clearly failed," he added.

He added that Qatar Airways was considering buying more Airbus A380s on top of the five already ordered from Boeing's arch-rival.

Mr Al Baker was also critical of Bombardier of Canada, which has been trying to break Boeing's and Airbus' stranglehold of the airliner production business.

He said Qatar Airways had been forced to cancel a planned order for the company's C-Series planes in July over concerns about their engines.

"If they do not roll up their sleeves pretty fast then the [new Airbus A320] NEO will eclipse them," he warned.

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Old December 1st, 2010, 04:44 PM   #276
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Any news on the last 787 problem? By now the delay should have been already quantified weren't it a major problem. I remember people complaining about A380 delays, but at least they were few and caused by a single problem -the wiring issue caused by CATIA versions- that only affected production; instead Boeing is having failure after failure on unrelated issues and the delay already is... how long? twice as much as that suffered by A380?
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Old December 1st, 2010, 07:25 PM   #277
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The latest news is that Boeing needs several weeks to determine how long the delay will be, yup, it takes them several weeks just to find out the length of the next delay

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Old December 5th, 2010, 03:34 PM   #278
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787 Dreamliner proving bedeviling for Boeing
Fire during test flight, condensation problems threaten new delay for long-awaited plane

By Julie Johnsson, Tribune Reporter
December 4, 2010

Fire and rain are among the latest problems to bedevil Boeing Co.'s oft-delayed 787 Dreamliner, whose production woes have earned the jet unflattering nicknames like 7-late-7 and 787-ML, a reference to Murphy's Law.

Boeing's suppliers and airline customers are bracing for another lengthy delay in the delivery of the first Dreamliner as the Chicago-based plane-maker responds to a puzzling, widespread electrical failure triggered by a fire onboard Boeing's second test plane last month.

Even without the fire, Boeing almost certainly would have postponed the initial delivery to Japan's All Nippon Airways, slated for February, as it scrambled to prepare the 787 for commercial flight, sources close to the program said. Among its concerns: meeting Federal Aviation Administration certification requirements and resolving a series of nagging problems like "rain in the plane," condensation that dripped and pooled on some flights.

Boeing officials have promised to provide an updated delivery schedule in the next few weeks, after engineers complete design changes and software updates prompted by last month's fire. Software failures caused most of the 787's flight-deck displays to go dark and left the jet operating on emergency power as it landed in Laredo, Texas, sources said.

The question is whether Boeing will also use the time to address its growing to-do list for the aircraft, tackling lower-tech issues like condensation. Boeing's options include lowering humidity levels, which it had touted as an antidote to jetlag, or installing a wicking material in its aircraft to absorb and redirect moisture, sources said.

The decisions confronting Boeing CEO Jim McNerney are the equivalent of a multidimensional chess match. Boeing will have to retest every 787 component that is redesigned in order to meet the FAA's exacting standards, and retrofit the 26 customer planes it has manufactured, all while pacing its suppliers so excess inventory doesn't stack up during the process.

And even if this proves to be the last major delivery delay for the 787, analysts worry Boeing could struggle to meet production-rate targets.

"It also depends whether they are going to break with the pattern of being overoptimistic or err on the side of conservatism," said Richard Aboulafia, aviation analyst with Virginia-based Teal Group.

Sources close to the program say that Boeing is mulling parking planes that require the greatest amount of work and revising its delivery schedule so that early customers receive aircraft with most of the required design changes built in.

Rolling changes to Boeing's production could mean that ANA would launch commercial service on the 787 with an aircraft other than ZA007, the seventh Dreamliner, which had long been intended for the first delivery, sources told the Tribune. But Boeing has not yet updated its delivery schedule, and ANA is slated to receive that plane as its first 787, said airline spokeswoman Nao Gunji.

Such details won't be known "until we work out a detailed plan going forward," added Boeing spokeswoman Lori Gunter.

Analysts have estimated it could take Boeing anywhere from a couple of months to a year to solve lingering certification and design issues. They expect Boeing to slow down the rate at which it assembles planes and at which its suppliers churn out 787 components.

Anticipating a long delay and slower ramp-up of production, Spirit AeroSystems Inc., a major Boeing supplier, has transferred some workers from its 787 production line to the busier 737 line, said Debbie Gann, spokeswoman for the Kansas-based aerospace manufacturer.

The 787 Dreamliner is the most technically advanced commercial aircraft ever built, and its cutting-edge information technology systems have been a selling point for Boeing, along with the jet's lighter, largely composite structure, which promises greater fuel efficiency and creature comforts like higher humidity in onboard air. Boeing also outsourced a far greater degree of its design and manufacturing than on any other of its aircraft, a move intended to slash development costs.

But with the recent systems failure, the measures that made the jet ground-breaking have all contributed to its production woes. The 787 is running nearly three years late as Boeing dealt with a litany of problems: shoddy supplier work, a shortage of titanium fasteners and unanticipated structural weakness in the plane's composite fuselage.

"The manufacturing didn't work as planned; the materials and now the systems architecture didn't work as planned," said aerospace blogger Jon Ostrower. "The three main foundations that are driving development and innovation on this program have given them enormous heartache."

The onboard fire in the P100 power distribution panel in the aft equipment bay located under the passenger cabin floor resulted in a dangerously close call, sources said. Boeing is determining what caused an electrical panel to short and then burst into flames. Although the flare lasted only 30 seconds, it occurred during final approach, and the aircraft landed in Laredo 90 seconds later, Gunter said.

Analysts are troubled that the fire triggered an apparent software malfunction that also caused the 787's unaffected power systems to shut down. The plane's only source of power was a ram air turbine, a small, propeller-powered generator outside the plane whose output is sufficient to power only basic flight functions.

"The 787, like all aircraft, has a large number of redundancies built in," said Hans Weber, president of Tecop International Inc., an aviation consultancy. "A failure somewhere in the electrical system is not supposed to take the entire system down."

Analysts are trying to determine whether other software systems also failed to perform as designed during the incident. The 787 crew was running its air conditioning at maximum output as part of testing that day, and some question whether that somehow contributed to the power outage.

"The circuits that provide air conditioning would have required much more electricity than normal," Weber noted. "Would that have been a problem? Maybe. If so, that is something that would have to be fixed."

Boeing's Gunter said she wasn't aware of any software malfunction other than that of the power distribution software.

For now, Boeing's 787 fleet is in limbo, waiting for the FAA's go-ahead to resume test flights. Another big question mark is the degree to which the certification process itself will be slowed as federal authorities press Boeing to demonstrate the plane and its advanced software systems are safe.

"The resumption of flight testing will depend on how long it takes Boeing to do everything it needs to do," said FAA spokesman Lynn Lunsford. "Before flight testing begins, Boeing will present its plan to our certification office. It's too early to say when that will be."

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Old December 9th, 2010, 06:01 PM   #279
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Boeing Dreamliner delivery delay to July: report
Posted: 09 December 2010 1952 hrs

PARIS : The first deliveries of Boeing's new 787 high-tech Dreamliner airplane may be delayed until July, company officials have told Air France according to a report in Thursday's Les Echos.

The company announced last week there would be a delay in delivery of the aircraft which features a lightweight part-carbon composite structure for increased fuel efficiency following a fire that erupted during a test flight in November.

However, it did not say when it would deliver the first planes to Japan's All Nippon Airways, which had been due to get them in the first quarter of 2011, three years later than initially planned.

The planes "could finally arrive next summer, maybe the end of June or the beginning of July. That is three months later than the last forecast delivery date," the newspaper wrote based on talks between Boeing and Air France executives.

The US aerospace giant last month halted test flights as it investigated an electrical fire that forced an emergency landing.

Boeing said it was developing minor design changes to power distribution panels on the 787 and updates to the systems software that manages and protects power distribution on the plane.

The company has encountered numerous difficulties in bringing the plane to market due to its innovative use of composite materials as well as integrating production in numerous sites. - AFP/ch
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Old December 14th, 2010, 02:35 AM   #280
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Boeing abandonne le 787 pour les courtes distances, augmente ses prix (Tribune de Genève)

NEW YORK | Le constructeur aéronautique américain Boeing a annoncé lundi qu’il cessait de fabriquer la version pour les courtes distances de son nouvel avion 787, dit le Dreamliner, plombé par des problèmes techniques ayant entraîné trois ans de retard sur le calendrier initial. "Le 787-3 n’est plus offert", a indiqué à l’AFP un porte-parole du constructeur.

Boeing n’avait "plus de commandes pour le 787-3 depuis janvier 2010, quand ANA", la compagnie japonaise qui doit recevoir la première livraison du 787, "a converti trois commandes de 787-3 en 787-8", un modèle long courrier, a-t-il ajouté.

"Il n’y aura pas d’autre annulation de commande liée à cette décision" de ne plus proposer le 787-3, a ajouté le porte-parole, soulignant qu’elle n’était en aucun cas liée aux récents problèmes techniques rencontrés par le groupe, et en particulier à l’incendie qui s’est déclaré lors d’un vol d’essai début novembre.

L’action Boeing a reculé de 0,58% lundi à la Bourse de New York, pour terminer à 63,79 dollars.

Boeing a par ailleurs annoncé sur son site internet lundi qu’il augmentait les prix de ses avions de 5,2% en moyenne, avec 5% de hausse des prix catalogue pour le 787-8, et 2% pour le 787-9, le plus gros modèle de la gamme.

Cette augmentation, la première depuis 2008, reflète "une hausse des coûts salariaux, des biens et des services".

Boeing fait valoir qu’Airbus avait "augmenté ses prix de 5,8% au début de l’année", également pour la première fois depuis deux ans.

"L’augmentation du prix du 787 reflète la valorisation par le marché" et "la forte demande pour ce produit", commente le communiqué. "Avec 847 commandes de 56 clients dans le monde, les compagnies aériennes ont constaté la valeur ajoutée que cet avion va amener à leur flotte".

Boeing doit annoncer prochainement un nouveau calendrier de livraison pour le 787 et notamment la première livraison due à la compagnie japonaise ANA, qui aurait dû avoir lieu au premier trimestre.

Le quotidien Les Echos croyait savoir jeudi qu’elle serait repoussée à l’été.
In short: the short distance 787-3 is no longer on sale. Furthermore, 787-8 price will be increased by 5% and 787-9 by 2%. The definition of the date for the first delivery to ANA is still pending.
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