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Old April 28th, 2005, 10:07 PM   #21
STR
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I am sooo disappointed with the final 787. I can understand losing the shark fin tail, but they totally ruined the nose. It looks like a chunk now.
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Old April 29th, 2005, 08:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
I am sooo disappointed with the final 787. I can understand losing the shark fin tail, but they totally ruined the nose. It looks like a chunk now.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If this is REALLY what boeing wants to shell out as the final design, let Airbus make the A350 look like what the 787 was supposed to be.
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Old April 30th, 2005, 04:58 AM   #23
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^ Yes the finalized design sucks. They might as well call it the "767 Advanced."

.. So would anyone care to explain why Boeing's spent $12 Billion on a plane that looks the same as existing planes they've made?

[Granted they've already made up that difference in orders already... but that still seems a bit steep.]
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Old April 30th, 2005, 07:56 AM   #24
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What are the advantages of a carbon composite body? Are they more difficult to repair in the even they're damaged?
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Old April 30th, 2005, 08:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
What are the advantages of a carbon composite body? Are they more difficult to repair in the even they're damaged?
According to the Boeing website, the lightweight composite materials in the aircraft will provide resistance to fatigue and corrosion. Also, the obvious advantages in fuel savings due to the weight reduction.
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 02:41 AM   #26
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This plane is still going to be deliciously AWESOME because of its interior, with LED lighting instead of flickering fluorescents, huge windows so you don't have to scruntch down to look out, and those cool polarized window shades that operate at the push of a button. It will certainly be by far the best cabin out there as far as modern technology!
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Old May 6th, 2005, 05:36 AM   #27
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Boeing Has Edge On Jet Deal

Wichita Business Journal - 2:04 PM CDT Thursday

The Boeing Co. has the inside track on a jet purchase by LOT, Poland's national airline, according to a Thursday online report by Reuters.

Boeing and Airbus officials declined to comment of the deal. LOT is looking for long-range planes to replace its current fleet of six Boeing 767s, which are used on the carrier's international routes.

The two companies are engaged in a fierce battle for new orders in a highly competitive commercial passenger aircraft market.

Boeing (NYSE: BA) is pitching its new 787 Dreamliner, which will have lower operating costs than the 767 because of its higher fuel efficiency.

For its part, Airbus is working on sales of its new A350, a long-range version of its mid-sized A330, and its answer to the 787.

Parts of the 787 will be made at Boeing Wichita. Airbus has a design and engineering center in Wichita's Old Town district.

Boeing won a number of recent customer orders despite competition from Airbus, including major orders from Air India and Air Canada.

The 787 is due to begin deliveries in 2008. So far, the company has more than 200 orders for the aircraft.
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Old May 6th, 2005, 12:03 PM   #28
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Dumb question time!

So what's the actual differance between the 767, 777 & 787 - ie why is Boeing introducing what appears to be a thrid model into the same market place.

Or am I missing the point?
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Old May 6th, 2005, 02:31 PM   #29
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767 = mid-range 200-300 seats airplane
777 = long-range 300-400 seats airplane
787 = long-range 200-300 seats airplane and very efficient with fuel
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Old May 6th, 2005, 02:35 PM   #30
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northwest airlines had buyed 68 dreamliners (18 firm orders and 50 options)

YES, the bussiness of boeing is going to be good this year!!!
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Old May 7th, 2005, 08:19 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksanderson
So what's the actual differance between the 767, 777 & 787 - ie why is Boeing introducing what appears to be a thrid model into the same market place.

Or am I missing the point?
The 787 will largely replace the 767 and open-up a new niche in long-range medium-capacity routes. The 777 is for higher capacity routes and for the longest routes.
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Old May 8th, 2005, 02:51 AM   #32
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Northwest Orders 18 Boeing 787 Dreamliners

Wichita Business Journal - 10:10 AM CDT Friday

Ken Vandruff

Northwest Airlines Inc.
placed firm orders for 18 of the Boeing Co.'s new 787 Dreamliner with options for an additional 50.

The deal is valued at $2.2 billion at list prices, although airlines routinely negotiate discounts. Boeing (NYSE: BA) will deliver six 787s each year to Northwest (NASDAQ: NWAC) starting in August 2008 and continuing until 2010. The airline will be the first North American carrier to operate the jet.

Boeing says it has a total of 255 orders and commitments for the 787 from 20 airlines around the world.

The forward section and engine struts for the 787 will be built in Wichita. Boeing is in the process of selling its Wichita and Oklahoma commercial airplane operation to Onex Corp. (TSX: OCX.SV). The two companies have a long-term agreement to continue the 787 work once Onex assumes ownership of the facilities.
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Old May 8th, 2005, 06:49 AM   #33
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Polish airline wants Boeing 787

By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AEROSPACE REPORTER

Despite intense lobbying by France, Germany and Britain, the national airline of Poland will buy Boeing's 787 rather than a competing jet made by Airbus.

LOT Polish Airlines notified Boeing that it will order six of its 787s as replacements for its Boeing-made but aging 767s, an industry source confirmed yesterday. The decision ends one of Europe's most closely watched order of battles because of the political pressure that was applied from both sides of the Atlantic.

The Boeing win represents another setback for Airbus, which has lost a string of recent competitions to Boeing and its 787, a twin-engine, superefficient jet slated for service starting in 2008.

An official announcement from LOT is likely within a couple of weeks, the source said. Boeing declined comment.

LOT has never bought planes from Airbus, although the LOT fleet includes smaller regional jets. LOT uses its five 767s on trans-Atlantic routes to the United States to serve the large Polish-American community.

Poland joined the European Union last year, and it had been pressured by French President Jacques Chirac to show loyalty by buying planes from Airbus. British Prime Minister Tony Blair and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder also weighed in on behalf of Airbus

Earlier this year, after a meeting with Chirac, Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski said he would seriously consider the arguments made by France, Germany and Britain for buying Airbus planes.

But Poland also has a strong political alliance with the United States. In January 2003, Poland, along with other former communist countries, signed what was known as the "letter of eight," which supported President Bush's war plans against Iraq -- a war strongly opposed by France and Germany, Poland's most important trading partners. Poland later sent a few thousand troops to Iraq.

The Polish government owns 68 percent of LOT, and even though the carrier had said it would order new jets based on an independent evaluation of which planes are best for LOT, few industry observers believed that politics would not be a major factor.



Poland already has made one aircraft decision in favor of the United States that upset Europe, especially the French.

In January 2003, about the same time Poland was signing on in support of the Bush administration's war plans, the Polish government announced it would buy nearly 50 F-16s from Lockheed Martin. The deal, worth about $3.5 billion, was a blow to France, which was offering its Dassault-built Mirage. Europe's Gripen fighter was also rejected.

Poland was criticized in Europe for buying American-made fighters while at the same time seeking better conditions for entry into the European Union.

To win the fighter competition, Lockheed Martin had promised offsets -- investments in Polish industry -- that could be worth several billion dollars to the country's economy.

Such agreements are also standard practice by Boeing and Airbus to help them win jetliner deals with other countries. It is not known what kind of offset package Boeing may have offered as part of its bid to LOT.

Airbus reportedly was prepared to increase its purchases of goods from Polish aviation companies -- from about $12 million now to perhaps $20 million per year.

Initially, Airbus offered LOT its A330-200 as a 767 replacement. The A330-200 is bigger and newer than the 767 and was winning most of the sales for midsize jets until Boeing started development of the 787.

LOT was considering the A350, a yet-to-be-built long-range derivative of the A330 that will incorporate a new wing and the fuel-efficient engines being developed for the 787, as well as the A330, which is available now.

Boeing has won 255 firm orders or commitments for its 787. But the A350 is off to such a poor start -- just 10 planes from a single airline -- that some industry analysts believe Airbus may have to rethink its strategy and develop a more expensive all-new jet, rather than a derivative, to compete against the 787, which will be the industry's first jetliner with a composite wing and fuselage.

Airbus has said it is not concerned and expects to have 50 A350 commitments by the Paris Air Show next month and 100 by year's end.

Given that LOT chose Boeing's 787 in the face of the political lobbying by Europe is another indication that the A350 is struggling to gain traction with airlines

But LOT does have a long history with Boeing.

It was Boeing-built jets that helped transform LOT into what it is today. It has a fleet of more than 50 planes and a route structure serving 31 countries.

In operation since 1929, LOT entered the jet age in 1968 when it acquired Soviet-built Tupolev planes. Later, it bought Illuszyn jets for new long-haul routes.

In 1988, LOT decided to replace its Russian fleet with the twin-aisle 767. It was the first airline in Central or Eastern Europe to operate the Boeing jet. Later, in 1992, LOT ordered Boeing 737s for shorter routes.

LOT had said it wants to reduce its costs by about 20 percent and the more efficient 787 will help.
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Old May 8th, 2005, 09:57 PM   #34
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Boeing Awards Additional 787 Contracts To JAMCO

EVERETT, Wash., May 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) has selected JAMCO Corp. to provide flight deck interiors -- including a stowage area, linings and the stowage consoles near the seats -- and the flight deck door and bulkhead assembly for the all-new 787 Dreamliner. These awards are in addition to the lavatories contract awarded earlier this year.

"Boeing has a long relationship with JAMCO. They are repeatedly winners of our top recognition awards for quality and performance," said Mike Bair, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "It's natural for them to be a part of the 787 team."

Takashi Kawashima, president and chief executive officer of JAMCO, said, "It is our great honor to have been selected to supply elements of the interiors for this very exciting aircraft. This contract underscores JAMCO's reputation for top-level quality and integration capabilities. We are very confident in our ability to supply excellent products."


Additional Information:
Boeing 787 Dreamliner:


The 787 is a family of three super-efficient airplanes that will provide
passengers with a better flying experience, including an improved cabin
environment with more room and more conveniences. The 787-8 will carry 223 passengers in three classes of seating with a range of up to 8,500 nautical miles (15,700 kilometers). The 787-3, a model of the 787-8 optimized for shorter flights, will carry 296 passengers in two-class seating on ranges up to 3,500 nautical miles (6,500 kilometers). The 787-9, a longer version of the 787-8, will carry 259 passengers in three classes with a range of 8,300 nautical miles (15,400 kilometers).

About JAMCO Corporation:

Tokyo-based JAMCO provides aircraft interior monuments and is a leader in lavatories and galleys throughout the world. JAMCO has received many
recognition awards from Boeing, including Boeing Supplier of the Year in 2002. JAMCO is a three-time recipient of Boeing's President's Award, and a nine-time recipient of Boeing's Pride in Excellence Award.
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Old May 9th, 2005, 11:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Yankee
767 = mid-range 200-300 seats airplane
777 = long-range 300-400 seats airplane
787 = long-range 200-300 seats airplane and very efficient with fuel

Thanks
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Old May 10th, 2005, 08:44 AM   #36
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Can someone give me a timeline of when:

- First flight
- First delivery of fuselage by the modified 747
- First plane wholly built

Thx
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Old May 10th, 2005, 05:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Can someone give me a timeline of when:

- First flight
- First delivery of fuselage by the modified 747
- First plane wholly built

Thx
is this about the 787 or about the 747lcf (large cargo freighter)??
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Old May 10th, 2005, 07:34 PM   #38
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^ The first and last are referring to the 787. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
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Old May 10th, 2005, 08:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258
I noticed this on the Airliners.net forum which has a link to this forum and they have pictures of the final design of the 787. I'm not sure if they're kidding or being truthful but if this is the final design of the 787, I'm severely dissappointed. It looks like a funky version of the 767.
That's called marketing, but wait until you'll see the airlines colour on the plane, you might be even more disapointed. At least, airbus is being honest with its design projects

Welcome to the cruel world...
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Old May 10th, 2005, 09:10 PM   #40
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AVIATION SALE OF DREAMLINERS

Boeing aims to sell 400 more 787s

Having secured 255 orders and commitments for its new mid-sized fuel-efficient 787 jet from 20 airlines around the world, Boeing is actively chasing orders for another 400 units from 25 other carriers.

The US airplane maker is betting heavily on the new jetliner in its belief that there would be worldwide demand for as many 3,500 units of such type of aircraft, worth some US$400 billion over the next 20 years.

Boeing Commercial Airplane expects to capture more than half of the demand for the aircraft, the medium-to-long-haul with seating capacity in the range of 200 to 300, over the period with its 787 Dreamliner.

Boeing's new aircraft is, for the time being, directly pitched against European rival Airbus' A330 and A340 currently in operation, as well as the future A350 which Airbus hopes to put into service by 2010, only two years after the 787.

Speaking in Bangkok yesterday, Randy Tinseth, director for product and services marketing at Boeing, said one of the biggest appeals of the 787, formerly known as the 7E7, was its fuel efficiency, with consumption 20% lower than for similar-sized airplanes, thanks partly to the use of composite materials in the fuselage which shed some weight.

The 787's fuel burn per seat is claimed to be 20% lower than for the A330-200 and 40% lower than the A330-400, according to Mr Tinseth.

By using more composite materials in the fuselage, he said the jet would burn 20% less fuel than comparable planes.

The 25 carriers which Boeing has sent out proposals to has the potential demand for 400 units of the 787, which comes in three versions with capacities ranging from 220 to nearly 300 passengers and a flying range from 6,500 km to 15,700 km.

Boeing described the demand for the 787, with a catalogue price of about US$120 million, as unprecedented in the duration of one year after the aircraft was officially authorised for sale.

The latest 787 order was placed by Northwest Airlines for 18 units. The single largest order Boeing has received to date is 50 units from All Nippon Airways.

Thai Airways International, one of Boeing's targeted customers, has yet to place any orders for the 787 model.

Boeing did not discuss the development cost of the 787, nor how many planes it needed to sell to justify the development cost.

Production of the 787, recognised by its distinctive nose, wings, tail, and engine cowls, bigger window and larger overhead bins, is slated to start in 2006. The first flight is expected in 2007 with certification, delivery and entry into service in 2008.

Meanwhile, the US plane maker has begun to draw airlines' attention to the latest version of its jumbo jet, dubbed 747 Advanced, Boeing's answer to Airbus' gigantic double-decker A380 though at a smaller scale.

Details of the modernised jumbo were scarce though Mr Tinseth said the 747 Advanced would be derived from today's B747-400, the main staple for long-haul high-capacity aircraft among international airlines, with new fuel-efficient engines and upgraded cabin with more passenger seats (34).

Besides, the 747 Advanced was claimed to beat an A380's trip cost by 19%. Boeing is working with airlines and freight carriers on the development of the 747 Advanced.
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