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Old January 16th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #1461
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Boeing Dreamliners in Japan grounded after problems

AP An All Nippon Airways flight sits at Takamatsu airport in Takamatsu, western Japan, after it made an emergency landing. Updated: 01/16/2013 12:55am

TOKYO (AP) — Boeing Co.'s 787 planes were grounded for safety checks Wednesday by two major Japanese airlines after one was forced to make an emergency landing in the latest blow for the new jet.

All Nippon Airways said a cockpit message showed battery problems and a burning smell was detected in the cockpit and the cabin, forcing the 787 on a domestic flight to land at Takamatsu airport in western Japan.

The 787, known as the Dreamliner, is Boeing's newest and most technologically advanced jet, and the company is counting heavily on its success. Since its launch, which came after delays of more than three years, the plane has been plagued by a series of problems including a battery fire and fuel leaks. Japan's ANA and Japan Airlines are major customers for the jet and among the first to fly it.

Japan's transport ministry said it got notices from ANA, which operates 17 of the jets, and Japan Airlines which has seven, that all their 787 aircraft would not be flying. The grounding was done voluntarily by the airlines.

The ministry categorized the problem Wednesday as a "serious incident" that could have led to an accident, and sent officials for further checks to Takamatsu airport. The airport was closed.

ANA executives apologized, bowing deeply at a hastily called news conference in Tokyo. Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...p=breakingnews
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Old January 16th, 2013, 08:35 AM   #1462
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Hmm, looks like the repeated problems need to be addressed by JAL, ANA, and Boeing because the 787 is still in its infancy, and it looks like addressing the Li-ion battery problems would be key to the aircraft's longevity, as well as any other possible issue or flaw that can surface in the process. It is fortunate, though, that the latest 787 incident has resulted in a safe landing, with no one seriously hurt or died in the process.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #1463
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Sounds like a repeat of the A380 grounding's when a QF A380 encountered an engine failure after departure from SIN...
I hope Boeing pin point the issues at hand and have it resolved...
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Old January 16th, 2013, 10:48 AM   #1464
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This is regarding Scoot's comment regarding the 787 problems.

Quote:
Singapore's Scoot affirms order of 20 Dreamliners
Posted: 16 January 2013 1544 hrs


SINGAPORE: Singapore Airlines unit Scoot on Wednesday said it was confident Boeing will solve problems with its 787 Dreamliner and reaffirmed its order for 20 of the aircraft.

"Boeing has kept us fully informed about the performance of the 787 since we committed to acquire the aircraft," the budget carrier said in a statement after Japan's two biggest airlines grounded all their Dreamliners due to safety fears.

"Boeing has kept us fully informed about the performance of the 787 since we committed to acquire the aircraft."

An All Nippon Airlines (ANA) Dreamliner was forced to make an emergency landing on Wednesday in the latest crisis to hit the new Boeing jetliner.

Scoot's Dreamliner order was estimated to be worth $4.0 billion when it was announced in October.

"We are confident that Boeing's ongoing performance monitoring and external review process will identify and resolve any issues, and look forward to taking delivery of our first 787 on schedule in late 2014," the statement said.

- AFP/fa
source: CNA
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Old January 16th, 2013, 11:19 AM   #1465
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Siguen los problemas en el Boeing 787, en Japon, hoy un avion de ANA aterrizo de emergencia porque comenzo a salir humo desde la cabina de control filtrandose hasta las primeras filas de pasageros, que esta pasando con el 787?
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Old January 16th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #1466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seemchecho View Post
Siguen los problemas en el Boeing 787, en Japon, hoy un avion de ANA aterrizo de emergencia porque comenzo a salir humo desde la cabina de control filtrandose hasta las primeras filas de pasageros, que esta pasando con el 787?
Let me help you translate your question...

Quote:
Still problems in the Boeing 787, in Japan, today an ANA plane made an emergency landing because smoke came out from the control room to the front rows seeping passenger(s)... what's going on with the 787?
I suspect what's going on is with the Lithium Ion battery that is ingrained in the plane's body, in which in some Japanese aircraft, it has burst into flames. And with the recent incidents, Japan Airlines and ANA have made a statement that it will suspend B787 operations until a full assessment has been made to rectify the recent troubles. Here's a summary of "canceled" and reassigned flights:

ANA, Japan Airlines cancel B787 operations on 16 January 2013

JAL
On 16JAN13, JAL cancelled its Boeing 787 service, which all assigned on International routes. See update below for updated information.

ANA
Tokyo Haneda – Frankfurt NH204 departure on 16JAN13 from Frankfurt is cancelled

Boeing 787 service on International routes are cancelled on 16JAN13, along with several domestic flights. For the remainder of 16JAN13, ANA will continue to operate following service, originally scheduled to be operated by 787. They will be operated by replacement aircraft:

- Tokyo Haneda – Fukuoka NH265/270
- Tokyo Haneda – Hiroshima NH681/684
- Tokyo Haneda – Kagoshima NH627/630
- Tokyo Haneda – Matsuyama NH595/598
- Tokyo Haneda – Okayama NH653/656
- Tokyo Haneda – Osaka Itami NH027/032

JAL adjusts B787 international operations for 17 January 2013

Tokyo Haneda – Beijing Planned Boeing 787 service replaced by following:
16JAN13 Boeing 777
17JAN13 Boeing 767
18JAN13 Boeing 777

Tokyo Haneda – Singapore
16JAN13 Cancelled
17JAN13 Cancelled
18JAN13 – 19JAN13 Reservation Closed

Tokyo Narita – Boston Daily, Closed until 22JAN13
17JAN13 Boeing 777 operating, replaces 787
18JAN13 Cancelled
19JAN13 – 21JAN13 Reservation Closed

Tokyo Narita – Moscow Domodedovo Reservation for flight on 18JAN13 is closed
Tokyo Narita – San Diego Reservation is Closed until 21JAN13

Tokyo Narita – Singapore Planned Boeing 787 service replaced by following
JL719 from NRT
17JAN13 Boeing 767
18JAN13 Reservation Closed

JL711 from NRT
19JAN13 Reservation Closed

JL712 from SIN
17JAN13 Boeing 777
18JAN13 Boeing 767

Please note: operating aircraft listed above may change at anytime, as the situation continues to be fluid.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 11:40 AM   #1467
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ANA also updated its B787 operation adjustments...

Quote:
ANA as of 0930GMT has adjusted planned international operations on routes scheduled with Boeing 787 operation, for 17 January 13. On 17JAN13, following aircraft will replace Boeing 787:

Tokyo Haneda – Beijing: Boeing 767
Tokyo Narita – Frankfurt: Boeing 777
Tokyo Narita – Seattle: Boeing 777

The Star Alliance member will cancel 35 (one-way basis) domestic flights on 17 January 2013. 30 flights will see other aircraft type replacing Boeing 787.

Planned Boeing 787 operation on/after 18 January 2013 remains pending, subject to progress of the emergency inspection. Last-minute aircraft changes or cancellations remain extremely high.
Source
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Old January 16th, 2013, 01:24 PM   #1468
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Probably another compensation case on the cards at ANA and JAL...
Really sad to have repeated incidents with the B787 just when the program was picking up pace... Hopefully Boeing discover the problem OR solution and have it resolved ASAP...
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #1469
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Thankyou for your answer Fielsofdream, im from Peru but i leave in Japan for long time ago.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #1470
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Boeing really needs to do something about these batteries problems, it goes on and on, and now smoke in cabin and evacuation via slides?
If it had been the first time that battery problem happened, but Boeing saw a lot of signs before this..
And we're not talking about teething problems anymore, this is serious problems.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post
Boeing really needs to do something about these batteries problems, it goes on and on, and now smoke in cabin and evacuation via slides?
If it had been the first time that battery problem happened, but Boeing saw a lot of signs before this..
And we're not talking about teething problems anymore, this is serious problems.
Yup, and it looks like the problem is appearing at a certain amount of battery life/time. It's becoming a pattern now.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #1472
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A bit too much of a pattern. I think they should at least inspect the batteries of each plane one by one. Theres only 50 or so of them in service.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #1473
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The final nail to the 787's coffin for now, I thought the bugs were worked out before hand given Boeing's reputation in the industry.

Cheers from this side of the pond.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 08:03 PM   #1474
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LOT's first commercial transatlantic Dreamliner flight
WAW-ORD
http://fr24.com/LOT3

Airplane is LN61 ZA270 SP-LRA
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Old January 16th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #1475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
Yup, and it looks like the problem is appearing at a certain amount of battery life/time. It's becoming a pattern now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
A bit too much of a pattern. I think they should at least inspect the batteries of each plane one by one. Theres only 50 or so of them in service.
There's actually not a pattern.

The JAL 787 was actually the last one delivered to them. This was the late produced JA829J, L/N 84, delivered on Dec. 20, 2012. The ANA 787 that had a problem today was the JA804A, LN 9 delivered on January 14, 2012. There's no connection with any life time of the batteries or the planes.

It's still very much a coincidence that these 2 incidents with the batteries happened so quickly after each other. It's only logical that ANA and JAL are checking out the batteries again, I'm sure that they already did that the 1st time around but another maybe even a more thorough check is only logical. I'm sure that they will start to fly again very soon.

Other airlines have not grounded their fleet, see the post above and United also has said that they are not grounding their 787s. It's indeed very similar to Qantas A380 incident where are other airlines also didn't ground their A380s.

With all the media attention nowadays, especially on the internet it does negative impact on Boeing. But then again, other new types in the past have much bigger problems then these ones. The A320 and A330 even had fatal crashes in their 1st 2 years of service. The 777 also had major electrical problems in it's 1st years. It will all be alright as Boeing will fix these problems along the way, there will probably be more. Just look at the wingcrack issues with the A380, those will even hurt their output this year that will be down from last year.

All these problems actually overshadow the biggest problem for Boeing right now, and that is the negotiations with the unions that are heading more and more towards a strike. And even though the strike can't start as originally planned in February anymore as the negotiations are still ongoing, the chances that there will actually be a strike have not gone down.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 09:44 PM   #1476
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I agree with what you say about the media coverage nowadays, the 787 would very likely be less bashed if all this problems happened 20 years ago.
But mentioning problems that happened to the a320 so 26 years ago and the a330, 20 years ago is not a real argument in my opinion, let's just look at the crash statistics 20 years ago and today, It's not comparable.
Besides, if I may, about the A330, it was a test flight which crashed (simulation of an engine failure) and about the 777, let's just say it was probably the smoothest EIS and it is still the safest aircraft.

I think it won't change anything of the 787 destiny, Boeing will hopefully fix it and it will be a succes, but I do understand that, in 2013, some questions can be raised when a brand new aircraft is involved in a fire on board incident that could of ended up tragically.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 10:01 PM   #1477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post
I agree with what you say about the media coverage nowadays, the 787 would very likely be less bashed if all this problems happened 20 years ago.
But mentioning problems that happened to the a320 so 26 years ago and the a330, 20 years ago is not a real argument in my opinion, let's just look at the crash statistics 20 years ago and today, It's not comparable.
Besides, if I may, about the A330, it was a test flight which crashed (simulation of an engine failure) and about the 777, let's just say it was probably the smoothest EIS and it is still the safest aircraft.

I think it won't change anything of the 787 destiny, Boeing will hopefully fix it and it will be a succes, but I do understand that, in 2013, some questions can be raised when a brand new aircraft is involved in a fire on board incident that could of ended up tragically.
Sometimes, it's the media hype that causes tons of concerns for passengers, pilots, airline crew, Boeing, and the airlines involved when such problems come along. Of course there will always be problems with the aircraft in its initial stages; it is perfectly normal to have such because that is where Boeing and the airlines test an aircraft's limits and figure out solutions that would hopefully make the 787 a very successful aircraft in the future.

Remember: it is normal to run into problems at the early stages. How to deal with them is the most critical factor that would spell success or failure later on for the aircraft, as well as the airlines that use them. And all aircraft are not immune to this issue: it happens all the time.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #1478
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Quote:
Sometimes, it's the media hype that causes tons of concerns for passengers, pilots, airline crew, Boeing, and the airlines involved when such problems come along.
True

Quote:
Of course there will always be problems with the aircraft in its initial stages
Indeed

Quote:
it is perfectly normal to have such because that is where Boeing and the airlines test an aircraft's limits and figure out solutions that would hopefully make the 787 a very successful aircraft in the future.
Thanks god you're wrong. The aircraft's limits are tested way prior to any delivery, during months and months, and the solutions are found during these tests.
When Boeing or Airbus delivers an aircraft, no matter it's the first of the 100th, the contract is the same, and the aircraft is considered as 100% operational.
Then, the first customers are not fool, and know there will be TEETHING problems, these problems are supposed to be small, details, settings.
A fire on board is not a teething problem.

Quote:
it happens all the time.
An emergency evacuation is something really rare.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #1479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post

Thanks god you're wrong. The aircraft's limits are tested way prior to any delivery, during months and months, and the solutions are found during these tests.
When Boeing or Airbus delivers an aircraft, no matter it's the first of the 100th, the contract is the same, and the aircraft is considered as 100% operational.
Then, the first customers are not fool, and know there will be TEETHING problems, these problems are supposed to be small, details, settings.
A fire on board is not a teething problem.

An emergency evacuation is something really rare.
Sure, and such things are actually a way to see how an aircraft turns out in the long-run. You cannot predict battery fires, teething problems, and the like in a mock-up: those are real-life situations, and those are things that need to be addressed soon so that Boeing can make all the needed adjustments to make the 787 a successful family of aircraft. Remember what happened with the Qantas A380 engine that ran into a problem? That is a similar scenario to the ANA incident, in which it needed to perform an emergency landing to check the equipment... And ground the aircraft for a deeper inspection.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 11:12 PM   #1480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post
But mentioning problems that happened to the a320 so 26 years ago and the a330, 20 years ago is not a real argument in my opinion, let's just look at the crash statistics 20 years ago and today, It's not comparable.
Besides, if I may, about the A330, it was a test flight which crashed (simulation of an engine failure) and about the 777, let's just say it was probably the smoothest EIS and it is still the safest aircraft.
Actually, the way you say it makes it even a better argument to be used right now. Even with these 2 early crashes the A320 and the A330 became one of the safest types ever, making a big contribution to the increased safety of aviation.

The current issues of the 787 are very serious, but they are not as bad the media and some people on the internet make them out to be. Teething problems can be very big, the engine blow out of the Qantas A380 could have ended in a total disaster.

The 777 indeed had an almost perfect introduction compared to these other introductions. If the 787 doesn't run into bigger problems it will still be one of the smoothest introductions. Compared to the delays that caused the late introduction it had relatively smooth ride until this string of incidents happened. It's still bad luck that everything happened at once.
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