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Old January 19th, 2013, 03:16 AM   #1521
IlhamBXT
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This Statement from Boeing Website about 787 Accident :

Quote:

Boeing Statement on Federal Aviation Administration 787 Action


A: There is no higher priority than the safety of passengers and crew members flying onboard our airplanes. Boeing is committed to supporting the FAA and finding answers as quickly as possible. The company is working around the clock with its customers and the various regulatory and investigative authorities. We will make available the entire resources of The Boeing Company to assist.
We are confident the 787 is safe and we stand behind its overall integrity. We will be taking every necessary step in the coming days to assure our customers and the traveling public of the 787's safety and to return the airplanes to service.
A: Airworthiness Directives (ADs) are rules issued by the FAA to mandate actions such as inspections, repairs, data collection, and other operational changes.
A: According to the FAA's recent announcement, operations can resume once airlines have demonstrated the batteries are safe. Boeing is working with the FAA to define that process and timeline.
A: We are in ongoing conversations with our customers - those who operate the airplane as well as those who have not yet received their first 787 - to ensure they understand the progress being made to define the plan to return to flight. Once that plan is defined we will assist in completing the actions required.
A: We are supporting the investigations that will determine the cause of the recent incidents involving 787 batteries. Until those investigations conclude, we can't speculate on what the results might be.
A: There are multiple backups to ensure the system is safe. These include protections against over-charging and over-discharging.
A. We are supporting the investigations that will determine the cause of the recent incidents involving 787 batteries. Until those investigations conclude, we can't speculate on what the results might be.
A: No. All modern jetliners have batteries. The 787's more-electric architecture has very little to do with batteries. The key innovation that enables the improved efficiency is the generation of more electrical power and the elimination of the high-pressure bleed air (pneumatic) system. The functions that were formerly powered pneumatically are now powered electrically.
link :http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787...tatements.html


Quote:
CHICAGO, Jan. 16, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing Chairman, President and CEO Jim McNerney issued the following statement today after the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued an emergency airworthiness directive that requires U.S. 787 operators to temporarily cease operations and recommends other regulatory agencies to follow suit:
"The safety of passengers and crew members who fly aboard Boeing airplanes is our highest priority.
"Boeing is committed to supporting the FAA and finding answers as quickly as possible. The company is working around the clock with its customers and the various regulatory and investigative authorities. We will make available the entire resources of The Boeing Company to assist.
"We are confident the 787 is safe and we stand behind its overall integrity. We will be taking every necessary step in the coming days to assure our customers and the traveling public of the 787's safety and to return the airplanes to service.
"Boeing deeply regrets the impact that recent events have had on the operating schedules of our customers and the inconvenience to them and their passengers."
Contact:
John Dern
Boeing Corporate Offices
312-544-2002
Marc Birtel
Boeing Commercial Airplanes
425-266-5822
SOURCE Boeing

link :http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2563
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Old January 19th, 2013, 04:53 AM   #1522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
A battery problem seems like a limited parts issue that should be easy enough to fix.
Indeed. The people calling the 787 a complete failure are either kidding themselves or haven't watched a new airliner launch before.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 05:14 AM   #1523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Whoa. A charging regulator... who would have thought that THAT was needed?
Well, the problem is how will airlines know that a Li-Ion battery is fully charged and thus does not need to be charged for much longer? It's like charging your cellphone: you will know you'll need to take it off the charger once the battery level hits 100%, true? So why not do a similar technology with the Li-Ion batteries for the 787? I mean, not only it will reduce the chances of burned-out batteries, but it will also help make the power plant more efficient for long flights... And those will be recharged only when the battery levels fall below a certain threshold.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #1524
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The Batteries are of course charged automatically when the APU is on, there's no human involved plugging and unplugging the charger.

And charging time does not necessarily have anything to do with this problem. It's much more likely that the charger has been charging the battery with a voltage that is simply too high. And that can be because of various reasons, it could be proper design flaw where the batteries are always loaded with a higher voltage then allowed. Or there's some flaw with the chargers that results in could result in voltage variations when it's charged. But that's for Boeing and the maker of the batteries to find out now together with the FAA.


Boeing has now stopped also stopped the 787 deliveries, but that's only logical since airline can't even physically take delivery of a plane that they are not allowed to fly. Production will continue as normal, with all the deliveries last year of the older produced 787s there's room enough to store all the newly assembles at Everett.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #1525
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Hmmm good point. Perhaps the Li-Ion battery design could be redesigned to lessen fire hazards, or might as well be tested for various voltages when charging. This is going to be a very interesting test of solving the root causes of the battery fires... And hopefully, Boeing will develop ingenious solutions to reduce such incidents in the long-run.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #1526
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Actually a faulty batch of batteries themselves would have been the simplest problem to rectify, a simple quality control problem requiring testing and replacement of existing batteries. If the early results are true and it was the battery charger which failed to prevent the battery being overcharged, one of its specific safety functions, then its back to the US manufacturer of the charger, the same one whose administration facility burnt down after a lab accident developing said charger.

This would then physically require redesign of the component and recertification of the entire electrical system.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 02:22 PM   #1527
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This discussion has made me laugh loud. I mean, are you serious? I can't believe a charge limiter is not already implemented in the design. This is primary school stuff. I can't believe Boeing couldn't do it correctly. Almost every chinese mobile phone producer could. But if it is the case, then what quality are we to expect in the more technically advanced stuff of this craft? this is scary indeed.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #1528
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That made me laugh aswell, but more because people try and analyse the situation like if they were from the NTSB, and use some cell phones comparison..
Come on guys, no one here has a single clue of what's going on exactly with these batteries.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 05:10 PM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post
That made me laugh aswell, but more because people try and analyse the situation like if they were from the NTSB, and use some cell phones comparison..
I used that comparison as a funny hyperbole, I was hoping you could realize that...
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #1530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
I used that comparison as a funny hyperbole, I was hoping you could realize that...
I wasn't talking about you though.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #1531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Actually a faulty batch of batteries themselves would have been the simplest problem to rectify, a simple quality control problem requiring testing and replacement of existing batteries. If the early results are true and it was the battery charger which failed to prevent the battery being overcharged, one of its specific safety functions, then its back to the US manufacturer of the charger, the same one whose administration facility burnt down after a lab accident developing said charger.

This would then physically require redesign of the component and recertification of the entire electrical system.
If that's the case, then maybe, the Li-Ion batteries used for the 787 would be much better and, therefore, may be less prone to fires.

@Space Invader: that's why we are making educated guesses here (hypotheses) into discovering what really happened with the Li-Ion batteries to begin with. Once a conclusive report is made, then it will be used as basis for improvements, and if any of our guesses is right, then, we're happy. If we're wrong, no problem. It's just making inferences. Nothing's wrong in making educated guesses.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #1532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
Left: 787 burned-out battery
Right: 787 battery as it supposed to look like
Wuooahh really dangerous
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Old January 19th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #1533
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The burned battery was also 4kg lighter than it was supposed to be :P

That said Li-Ion technology alone isnt the fundamental danger its just vulnerable to temperature, pressure changes and overcharging causing flash ignition, its how you manage its environmental vulnerabilities and protect against failure.

Also the Airbus A380 and the A350 use Li-Ion batteries so Airbus wont be quick to call the technology fundamentally dangerous.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 02:12 PM   #1534
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...0AP0CY20130120

Quote:
US agency rules out excess battery voltage in Boston 787 incident

Jan 20 (Reuters) - U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said on Sunday that it ruled out excess voltage in a battery fire that occurred on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner passenger jet operated by Japan Airlines Co Ltd in Boston on Jan. 7.

"Examination of the flight recorder data from the JAL B-787 airplane indicates that the APU (auxiliary power unit) battery did not exceed its designed voltage of 32 volts," NTSB said in a statement forwarded by a Boeing Japan representative.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #1535
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Looking like possibly not exceeding charge voltage but beginning charging at too quick a rate while the battery was in a dry state. Theres already a safety notice on Cessna's warning not to connect a charger to a battery thats just been fully discharged as its a fire hazard.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:48 AM   #1536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post
Very interesting. If that's not the problem, what could it be? Maybe a structural flaw or a wiring problem somewhere...?
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Old January 21st, 2013, 05:09 AM   #1537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post

Very interesting. If that's not the problem, what could it be? Maybe a structural flaw or a wiring problem somewhere...?
The news on Indonesia's newspaper is said that's 787 hv problem at assembly line...
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:30 PM   #1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Very interesting. If that's not the problem, what could it be? Maybe a structural flaw or a wiring problem somewhere...?
looks like you may be right- if thats the case this could warrant a longer grounding.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 06:46 PM   #1539
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Some analysts talk about 2 to 6 weeks of grounding.
ANA says the grounding costs them $1,1 million every day, looks like the compensations negotiations are going to be a nightmare for Boeing.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 07:15 PM   #1540
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Some analysts talk about 2 to 6 weeks of grounding.
ANA says the grounding costs them $1,1 million every day, looks like the compensations negotiations are going to be a nightmare for Boeing.
Yeah big time- especially since ANA had some 17 of the planes.
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