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Old January 21st, 2013, 07:26 PM   #1541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post
Some analysts talk about 2 to 6 weeks of grounding.
ANA says the grounding costs them $1,1 million every day, looks like the compensations negotiations are going to be a nightmare for Boeing.
Ouch, that's not good. Looks like the start of the year can be especially costly for Boeing... Hopefully, the aircraft manufacturer will find the source of the problem, rectify it, and let the FAA re-certify the modifications done (from the equipment to the procedures) so that the beloved 787 will return to service soon. I'm sure that the airlines are scrambling to keep their flights running, but possibly with a limited number of spare aircraft, it can be very difficult to keep those 787 routes running.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:08 AM   #1542
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I wonder why wasn't this detected after so many test flights? It seems a string of different and unrelated problems, but the battery one, if indeed is a design problem, should've surfaced after all their long-haul test flights.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 12:37 PM   #1543
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Latest is the Japanese investigation is concentrating on the battery and charger whereas the US investigation is more concerned with the wider electrical grid of the plane. If theres actually two seperate problems it could make the situation worse for Boeing.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 02:37 PM   #1544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I wonder why wasn't this detected after so many test flights? It seems a string of different and unrelated problems, but the battery one, if indeed is a design problem, should've surfaced after all their long-haul test flights.
I can remember, years ago, that some engineers were doubtful about the strategy that Boeing was going to take with their future 787, specifically the all electric system. Their first concern was that the lithium ion technology wasn't mature yet in 2004 and couldn't be 100% mature in 2007 (expected year of EIS). Actually, they were expecting it to be really mature (if it could be) some 10 years later, in 2014.
And the fire of a subcontractor building (6 years ago), a battery specialist company which was then testing the batteries (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/mult...cf6bc87fa.html), was maybe a sign that it wasn't ready to be using massively in such a sensible machine that a commercial aircraft is.

I think Boeing knew that they were taking a big risk, and that even with two years of intensive testings, they couldn't be 100% sure that the lithium ion was fully mature.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 06:37 PM   #1545
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Well there was one acclaimed engineer a few years back who declared the composites unsafe for commercial aircraft:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Weldon
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 06:39 PM   #1546
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More here: http://seattletimes.com/html/boeinga...boeing180.html
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 12:43 PM   #1547
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By Matt Cawby on Flickr :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvo...n/photostream/

image hosted on flickr
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:09 PM   #1548
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Doubt the plane shown will be taking to the air for at least another week or two.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:43 PM   #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Latest is the Japanese investigation is concentrating on the battery and charger whereas the US investigation is more concerned with the wider electrical grid of the plane. If theres actually two seperate problems it could make the situation worse for Boeing.
This may be because the Japanese is in charge of the manufacture of the battery and the US is responsible for the overall design and integration of the electrical system.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:56 PM   #1550
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Boeing's Dreamliner delay hits Hainan Airlines

DAVOS, Switzerland | Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:12pm GMT

(Reuters) - Hainan Airlines (600221.SS), China's fourth-largest carrier, said Boeing's (BA.N) failure to deliver its Dreamliner aircraft had forced the airline to delay some new routes, including between Beijing and New York.

Full article : http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/0...90M0RM20130123
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 07:17 PM   #1551
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TAKE-A-LOOK-Investigators hunt for cause of Dreamliner problems

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...130123?rpc=401
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:16 PM   #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I wonder why wasn't this detected after so many test flights? It seems a string of different and unrelated problems, but the battery one, if indeed is a design problem, should've surfaced after all their long-haul test flights.
I asked myself the very same question given Boeing's age and experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invader View Post
I can remember, years ago, that some engineers were doubtful about the strategy that Boeing was going to take with their future 787, specifically the all electric system. Their first concern was that the lithium ion technology wasn't mature yet in 2004 and couldn't be 100% mature in 2007 (expected year of EIS). Actually, they were expecting it to be really mature (if it could be) some 10 years later, in 2014.
And the fire of a subcontractor building (6 years ago), a battery specialist company which was then testing the batteries (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/mult...cf6bc87fa.html), was maybe a sign that it wasn't ready to be using massively in such a sensible machine that a commercial aircraft is.

I think Boeing knew that they were taking a big risk, and that even with two years of intensive testings, they couldn't be 100% sure that the lithium ion was fully mature.
Last year the US Postal Service banned shipping these worldwide because of the risk imposed to aircraft. Yet the 787 runs off these?

Quote:
"An outright ban on air-shipping lithium batteries may seem like an exaggerated response to this ambiguous problem, but there have been several plane crashes directly attributed to exploding lithium batteries in the last few years. There are two reasons why a lithium battery might experience a runaway thermal expansion, or explosion. The first reason lies with the battery's chemistry, and the second is contingent on physical or environmental stress"
Collateral damage
Problems with the Boeing Dreamliner may also delay the new Airbus A350, as the aircraft may face a strengthening of tests by aviation authorities.

.

Last edited by Heludin; January 23rd, 2013 at 08:32 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:30 PM   #1553
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I wonder why these people keeps telling the news the plane it's safe? A grounded aircraft is nowhere near safe.

Mike Sinnett, chief project engineer for the Boeing 787 program, said the company remained confident in the safety of the plane, which was grounded worldwide by regulators last week over potential fire risk following two incidents involving its lithium-ion batteries.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:42 PM   #1554
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In the meantime.

Air India has officially tender a sale and leaseback offer for their 6 787s plus 1 that should be delivered soon (probably directly after the grounding is over).
http://mmd.airindia.co.in/aimmd/tend...2013%20787.pdf

If this works out it will be easier for them to take delivery of more 787s since it will be easier to get some bridge financing before the next batch is up for a sales and leaseback construction.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:20 PM   #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heludin View Post
Last year the US Postal Service banned shipping these worldwide because of the risk imposed to aircraft. Yet the 787 runs off these?
I think the case is made, Boeing is making money by delivering around the world batteries that USPS refuses to carry
Jokes aside: it's scary actually, the article even says that Li-Ion batteries may have been the (so far undisclosed) cause of multiple plane losses. Jeez.
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Last edited by Peloso; January 23rd, 2013 at 09:28 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:45 PM   #1556
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Apart from the Thomson plane who has just been painted, is there any new 787's for new airlines?

I know the planes are grounded and no deliveries can be done but it's the construction process slower because of this or are they going ahead with it?
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 11:11 PM   #1557
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Too bad for 787.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 01:35 PM   #1558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenix_2007 View Post
Apart from the Thomson plane who has just been painted, is there any new 787's for new airlines?

I know the planes are grounded and no deliveries can be done but it's the construction process slower because of this or are they going ahead with it?
No new airlines, but the production goes on, which means Paine field is gonna be crowded as before.
The next new customer is gonna be the low cost Norwegian which is in final assembly.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #1559
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Will the 787 be allowed into the skyes to test the debugging before is delivered to their respective customers?
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:21 PM   #1560
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There haven't been any test flights after the grounding, that's all we know right now.


In just over an hour the NTSB, National Transportation Board will hold a press conference about the 787 that could have some new about the near future.
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