daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 6th, 2005, 04:04 PM   #21
nikko
Registered Yooser
 
nikko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,456
Likes (Received): 9

You're right invincible. We don't really use the term 'neighbourhood' or when we do, it doesn't have the same weighting as it is classified in North America.

I believe commuter rail in N. America and in most other countries is a system set up to haul a large amount of passengers from the suburbs into the city proper making very infrequent trips.

Australia works on this principal (believing people still only travel Suburbs<>City) but making their trains more metro-style and giving them 10-15 minute frequencies in peak.
__________________
See whats happening in BRISBANE!
nikko no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 8th, 2005, 06:39 PM   #22
ssiguy2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 5,404
Likes (Received): 859

But even frequent commuter rail doesn't help design streets. That's point to point travel not under main roads where development can be very high as well as high density.
Going from a part of the city to the other even if the stations are closer than commuter rail doesn't development main corridor streets and the urbanity they inspire.
Subways allow develpoment to develop at them FOR inner city urban dwellers not suburbanites even if they are inner suburbs.
Toronto itself in the more classic sence has only 750,000 but transit ussuage is EXTREMLY high. Toronto also has a massive streetcar sysytem.
On a per mileage basis of subway Toronto has higher ridership than London.
It seems you have chosen suburban travel than transit for the city itself.
Point to point transit will never get the numbers or develpe the urbanity of a subway system.
ssiguy2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2005, 03:25 AM   #23
nikko
Registered Yooser
 
nikko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,456
Likes (Received): 9

^

Of course not.

Brisbane is looking at a Metro for the Inner City.
But other than that, governments still work on the suburbs<>City basis. Because Australian cities (bar Brisbane and Melbourne to an extent) Don't have a large population living in the inner city area.
__________________
See whats happening in BRISBANE!
nikko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2005, 06:04 PM   #24
bennyboiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 66
Likes (Received): 21

Wow, Torronto really is the greatest city ever. Thanks for reminding us.

BACK TO TOPIC.

Personally I'm not a fan of light rail, i think buses and dedicated bus lanes are essentially the same thing. I would prefer heavy rail offshoots from exisisting lines, but it wont happen :P Rockingham could have them though.
bennyboiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 12:24 PM   #25
Nick
Gosford/Sydney.
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gosford (From Sydney)
Posts: 1,528
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
Please don't say "North American" transit. The transit systems and usuage in Canda are far, far superoir to that of the US and significantly higher than Australia.
There is not one major transit system in Canada without LRT or subway. The three highest per-capita ridership in N.A. are all in Canada. The US has rougly 10times as many people than Canada but only 4 times as many riders.
Once an hour for a bus in Canada......no mid or large city in Canada has that. In larger centres they come atleast once everty 20 minutes in the outskirts but ussually once every 8-10 and on the busier routes every 4-6 minutes. The subway run every 2-3 minutes in rush hour as do LRT. In non rush hour every 4-6minutes. In Vancouver during rush hour the SkyTrain runs every 90seconds and every 2-3 minutes in non rush hour.
Canadian service is vastly better than Australia's so please don't use Canada and the US in the same tongue.
The TTC serving just 2.6 million carries a stagerring 470,000,000 passengers a year......roughly 1.2 million a day. That does not include the other 3.2 million in the suburbs or the outer suburban cities of an within 100km of Tor with another 2.3million.
Commuter rail and service for outer areas is NOT mass transit. As far as getting anywhere in the city, sure on a bus but not on a subway.......not at all the same thing.
Try telling that to a New Yorker

Only Montrael and to a lesser extent Toronto have a metro that covers the city.
__________________
STOP THE NIMBYS.SUPPORT THE WATERFRONT PROJECT IN GOSFORD.
Nick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 12:26 PM   #26
Nick
Gosford/Sydney.
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gosford (From Sydney)
Posts: 1,528
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikko
You're right invincible. We don't really use the term 'neighbourhood' or when we do, it doesn't have the same weighting as it is classified in North America.

I believe commuter rail in N. America and in most other countries is a system set up to haul a large amount of passengers from the suburbs into the city proper making very infrequent trips.

Australia works on this principal (believing people still only travel Suburbs<>City) but making their trains more metro-style and giving them 10-15 minute frequencies in peak.
Sydney,Melbourne,Perth,Brisbane have a Metro in the form of electrified commuter rail.Particularly Syndey.There are 21 underground stations.
__________________
STOP THE NIMBYS.SUPPORT THE WATERFRONT PROJECT IN GOSFORD.
Nick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 04:56 PM   #27
Perth4life3
Now Reborn :)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 0

wow this thread was abducted bad!! but personally i wouldnt mind trams

what nikko said but about high frequency transport in the inner city is wrong !

Perth has CAT buses which are Central Area Transit buses i think??
which are different to the normal Transperth buses in shape and colour scheme.
they come about every 10 mins? and they have 4 different routes, one goes from north to south, one from east perth to west and kings park, parliament house, one to north bridge etc..

Fremantle also has them but it is one route, with buses every 15 minutes and they go as far down as south fremantle

subiaco also has them.
__________________
VISIT PERTHS UNOFFICIAL TOUR GUIDE WEBSITE www.lifeonperth.com
Perth4life3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 07:56 PM   #28
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

So with this LRT, which would be great, would Perth jump over Brisbane as having the third-best transit system in Australia? I would rank it Sydney, Melbourne right now, is that wrong?
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 08:21 PM   #29
Nick
Gosford/Sydney.
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gosford (From Sydney)
Posts: 1,528
Likes (Received): 53

In terms of coverage.

Melbourne would be first.Then Sydney(Although the city is expanding its network slowly),Bris and Perth.When Perth finishes its southern line it will overtake Brisbane as the third.

As for size,frequency and numbers of Passengers,Sydney is the king with just over 1 million trips per day.
__________________
STOP THE NIMBYS.SUPPORT THE WATERFRONT PROJECT IN GOSFORD.
Nick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 10:42 PM   #30
Frank J. Sprague
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 99
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
So with this LRT, which would be great, would Perth jump over Brisbane as having the third-best transit system in Australia? I would rank it Sydney, Melbourne right now, is that wrong?
Didn't Brisbane have a large tram fleet wiped out by a fire at a carbarn, and was forced to shutdown the system? I seem to recall something like this happening in Australia in the sixties.
Frank J. Sprague no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 10:45 PM   #31
Frank J. Sprague
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 99
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
...There is not one major transit system in Canada without LRT or subway...
Could post some pictures of the Winnipeg LRT, I've never seen any?
Frank J. Sprague no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 11:16 PM   #32
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick
As for size,frequency and numbers of Passengers,Sydney is the king with just over 1 million trips per day.
Interesting. But if Sydney has bigger size, frequency and numbers, what makes Melbourne better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank J. Sprague
Could post some pictures of the Winnipeg LRT, I've never seen any?
I would post mine, but Winnipeg doesn't have one yet I think by major, it was meant every city over one million people (Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton). Winnipeg has flirted with one in the past (as well as subway), but hasn't done so (yet, I'm hoping). Kitchener/Waterloo, a city with less than half a million is also building a starter line.
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2005, 11:24 PM   #33
Frank J. Sprague
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 99
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
I would post mine, but Winnipeg doesn't have one yet I think by major, it was meant every city over one million people (Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton). Winnipeg has flirted with one in the past (as well as subway), but hasn't done so (yet, I'm hoping). Kitchener/Waterloo, a city with less than half a million is also building a starter line.
I think back in the eighties Winnipeg came close to building an LRT. They have used a wide avenue (Portage?) which had streetcars in the median into the fifties. Thunder Bay, Ottawa and Quebec City had streetcars for quite a few years after WW2 also.
Frank J. Sprague no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2005, 01:23 AM   #34
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikko
I believe commuter rail in N. America and in most other countries is a system set up to haul a large amount of passengers from the suburbs into the city proper making very infrequent trips.

Australia works on this principal (believing people still only travel Suburbs<>City) but making their trains more metro-style and giving them 10-15 minute frequencies in peak.
You may be correct for North American commuter rail, but not so here in Europe. The suburban lines that compliment the metro's/subway's have similar service in many cases to Australia's suburban lines.

A metro line usually has trains every couple of minutes during peak times here (in some parts of Europe it's measured in seconds). The suburban lines except on the outskirts which may lag to 30minutes are usually around every 10-15 in the urban area's, and in the central area are similar to the metro in frequencies.

If the Sydney or Melbourne rail networks were transplanted here in Germany, or France, they would be called an S-bahn or RER service. Here in Germany we also have an R-bahn (or regional rail) which has the longer frequencies, but the fastest service in speed (i.e. express),

I do love Sydney's and Melbourne's rail system, but it is certainly not a metro. An S-bahn service is the best description. It can be a bit hard in Sydney during off-peak. I was waiting for a train last year from Circular Quay to Newtown, only a couple of stops but after 30minutes nothing turned up, so I had to get a taxi. (This was after 10pm)
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2005, 04:32 AM   #35
invincible
Lurker
 
invincible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,804
Likes (Received): 523

Yep, in terms of frequency and the type of service, North American commuter networks are probably more similar to regional rail lines in New South Wales and Victoria, while I'm yet to see an equivalent of a suburban rail network in North America. I've seen the timetables for Toronto's commuter trains - they're just beyond comparison and serves a totally different use. Can't really say that one is better than the other.

On a weekday, at my station (23.3km from the city) - in the DOWN direction:
Code:
05: 40
06: 00 21 39 59
07: 14 29 44 59
08: 03 13 28 43 50 59
09: 07 18 27 37 46 56
10: 07 22 37 52
11: 07 22 37 52
12: 07 22 37 52
13: 07 22 37 52
14: 07 22 37 52
15: 07 21 34 46
16: 00 11 25 36 50 55
17: 08 14 23 34 40 46 52 49
18: 01 07 17 22 28 36 48 59
19: 06 18 31 41 48
20: 01 08 23 43
21: 13 43
22: 13 43
23: 13 43
00: 13 43
Needs more improvement too, trains are still full and bottlenecks exist at several points.




Quote:
Didn't Brisbane have a large tram fleet wiped out by a fire at a carbarn, and was forced to shutdown the system? I seem to recall something like this happening in Australia in the sixties.
It was a popular thing at the time to remove tram networks anyway, since buses were believed to be the future. Even today, academics are saying the same thing.
invincible no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2005, 11:26 AM   #36
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible
On a weekday, at my station (23.3km from the city) - in the DOWN direction:
Code:
05: 40
06: 00 21 39 59
07: 14 29 44 59
08: 03 13 28 43 50 59
09: 07 18 27 37 46 56
10: 07 22 37 52
11: 07 22 37 52
12: 07 22 37 52
13: 07 22 37 52
14: 07 22 37 52
15: 07 21 34 46
16: 00 11 25 36 50 55
17: 08 14 23 34 40 46 52 49
18: 01 07 17 22 28 36 48 59
19: 06 18 31 41 48
20: 01 08 23 43
21: 13 43
22: 13 43
23: 13 43
00: 13 43
Yes, this is similar to most suburban systems in Europe. A metro generally has to have better off-peak services to be classified a metro system (amongst many other things)

The services above are not bad for a suburban service, and quite typical.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2005, 12:54 PM   #37
Perth4life3
Now Reborn :)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 0

just thought id post perths rail map (it includes the mandurah line u/c)




here are the frequencies for my stop (my stop being North Fremantle on the fremantle line shown above ^) it also has the express route which goes straight through north fremantle without stopping thats where frequencies are different.

5:47 AM 6:02 AM 6:21 AM 6:36 AM 6:51 AM 7:05 AM 7:21 AM
7:40 AM 7:58 AM 8:16 AM 8:38 AM
8:55 AM 9:09 AM 9:24 AM 9:39 AM 9:54 AM 10:09 AM 10:24 AM
10:39 AM 10:54 AM 11:09 AM 11:24 AM 11:39 AM 11:54 AM 12:09 PM 12:24 PM etc..

and on weekends i think trains run until 2 or 3.
__________________
VISIT PERTHS UNOFFICIAL TOUR GUIDE WEBSITE www.lifeonperth.com
Perth4life3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2014, 08:20 AM   #38
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,355
Likes (Received): 26177

PERTH | Public Transport

This thread is about public transport in Perth. Map of Transperth Trains system from urbanrail.net:



Transperth Trains system consists of 6 lines, 69 stations and 173.1 km of tracks. Track gauge - 1067 mm (same track gauge in tram systems in Hong Kong or Tallin). Photos from Wikipedia, Perth station:









Esplanade station:





Clarkson station:



Bull Creek station:



The rolling stock consists of two different models. The A-series EMUs built by ABB and Walkers in Maryborough, Queensland and introduced in 1991. Their top speed is 110 km/h and accepts 156 passengers:



And B-series, built by Bombardier Transportation and Downer Rail in Maryborough, Queensland. Introduced in October 2004 and operated on the Joondalup and Mandurah lines. Their top speed is 130 km/h and accepts 700 passengers:



There are lots of plans for transport in Perth. One of the recent approved plans is commuter rail line to Airport and Forrestfield. Planned for opening in 2022:



And there are also plans for Perth light rail. Right now is still in planning stage and planned for opening in 2022. Map you can find here:
http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/Portals/13/..._route_Map.pdf
__________________
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2014, 08:22 AM   #39
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,355
Likes (Received): 26177

From Perth Now:

Quote:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1227065581207

Extended northern railway: Butler train station open today
September 21, 2014



THE long-awaited Butler train station opened today: with its first extended service beginning at 11.51

Premier Colin Barnett and Transport Minister Dean Nalder opened the station a short time ago. A journey from Butler to the city will take 37 minutes.

The project to extended the northern railway line further than Clarkson was announced by Mr Nalder on August 17.

Mr Nalder said the extended line was completed three months ahead of schedule and about $20 million under budget.

The train would carry around 2000 commuters per day, providing a vital link to the growing Butler community

...
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2014, 01:01 PM   #40
city_thing
Put it in your mouth
 
city_thing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne.
Posts: 7,128
Likes (Received): 883

This is the newly opened Butler station. The suburb around it is still under construction, so there's really nothing there at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayds View Post
__________________
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft...

dimlys1994, geometarkv, Nexis liked this post
city_thing no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium