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Old January 9th, 2018, 01:50 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylimitone View Post





Tectonic
This building is gorgeous, but the 1950s rent-controlled tenement next door is heinous. Only in NY can there be $20m apartments next to rent-regulated flea bags.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 02:24 PM   #62
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Architecture Lover: What I was implying is something different, maybe I've expressed myself too cynical.

What I am saying is that, yeah, not enough effort was put in the qualities of the materials and the construction techniques. But then again, 99% of today's buildings sadly are produced cheaply, often cheaper than 20 East End Avenue. That being said, at least this building integrates well in the streetscape and overall look of Manhattan, it shows proper proportions and some love for the detail, which still separates it enough for me from the other 99% of today's buildings.


https://ny.curbed.com/building/3297/20-east-end-avenue


http://fieldcondition.com/blog/2017/...bert-a-m-stern
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Old January 9th, 2018, 03:57 PM   #63
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I understand what you mean. But I also have a feeling that you just want NYC to have classical looking buildings, which would mean, nothing modern at all. I think the city needs to reinvent itself and I think that our generation should have the right to create contemporary landmarks in the city that future generations will admire.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 04:49 PM   #64
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^ That's a harsh misinterpretation.

First: Contemporary means everything that is built nowadays. If it's classical, it's also a contemporary building. Just in a different style than many other buildings of today. But then again, Zaha Hadid buildings are also very (refreshingly) different from many other buildings of today.

Second: I admire quality buildings of all sorts. Of any architecture. It needs to be pleasant, surprising, adapting, inspiring and/or charmingly creative to comfort me. That's all. I have a lot affection for organic high-end designs like Tower Verre or Steinway Tower. I despise lazy and bland yet provoking designs like 432 Park Avenue for several reasons.

Third: I don't have a clear preference for classical architecture, it's just that much of the urban realm in Manhattan calls for at least classical proportions (including e.g. setbacks) and certain materials to maintain the pleasant cityscape that this unique place still has. It needs to respect the genius loci. As we all know, NYC was created as a place that always followed a greater plan, which is instilled in its layout since the beginning. They need to reimplement the 1916 zoning resolution, it is perfect to extend the urban layout into the skies with dignity, human scale and positive urban vibes.

That being said, just check this NYC thread I started, with 24 pages including designs and styles of all sorts that I like (or like to show), not just classical:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1553153
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Old January 9th, 2018, 05:40 PM   #65
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I feel like we shouldn't be talking about styles but quality and (most important) knowledge instead. The price is the first thing that comes across someone's mind. Are these buildings really the cheaper option? For example, here in particular we're talking about a building that's overlooking the Upper East Side. There's hardly a chance that a developer will build something cheap for his/hers clients over here. Maybe the prefabrication of the walls cuts some of the expenses, but I am sure it's still a pricey development. If one can not simply afford stone, or stacking stone blocks in the place of construction, then maybe one can simply go with the option of using terracotta, it is far from being an expensive material, at least where I come from. At the end of the day, these buildings aspire to look similar to New York's architectural heritage coming from the 30's, we have buildings from that era having terracotta clad facades, still looking marvelous today.

In terms of architectural styles, I am deeply in love with Art Deco, I feel like I mention the name of the style in basically every second post of mine. That does not stop me from admitting that I am leaning towards futuristic, and reflective glass and everything. In some of the recent business districts we tend to see the use of stainless steel as well, therefore I don't see a problem with using steel in these Deco revivals, you could hardly see any wood in terms of window frames and doors in the originals. So yeah knowledge is what we need, most of the developments in Manhattan come with a huge price tag.

One will ask himself/herself why do we need knowledge and how can it help us to deliver both better and cheaper buildings? In so many ways. Using the right materials with the right technological procedures can help us gain economies of scale for lets say, the production of terracotta (still a very affordable material something like $3–$7 per square foot in the US?), if we can make that price even lower, that way we can have both affordable and decent looking buildings.

This is just my point of view I haven't done any proper research, but my attitude will always stay close to: building something of good quality is much better on long term effects, from that aspect it is also economically much wiser. For instance, I had a smartphone that appeared pricey when I bought it, like six years ago, I've stopped using it like 2 weeks ago, it still works. Others payed much less but the lifetime range of those smartphones was not more that two years.

If we've reached a point where we have to admit that New York wants an Art Deco revival (at least for some of its residential buildings) then one should act wise in both economical and design - respectful ways.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 06:27 PM   #66
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Thank you for this bright contemplation Architecture Lover, seriously. That's the level of differentiated discourse I'd like to see more often in architectural discussion nowadays.

Sustainability is one of my main concerns, too. We have to use resources, workforce and capital wisely. And when we look deep into our hearts and souls, we all know which styles and building qualities actually (will) sustain the centuries.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 10:49 PM   #67
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We finally found a consensus on something, let that be quality and sustainability (and I see them both lacking in this project). But yeah I've realized we can both agree that the Fitzroy has the quality and knowledge factor.
That being said, I am still rooting to see a megatall in New York, and it being a glass monolith, just like one of those that we see in some Asian cities, I am absolutely fascinated by the one being built in Wuhan (the Greenland Center), it's my favorite megatall, something like that, or something even better to inspire us all.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 10:05 AM   #68
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Actually I think we always had a consensus on quality and sustainability, we just needed a little time to overcome the issue of talking at cross-purposes.

I always thought that Frank Lloyd Wright's "The Illinois" design just needs to be built one day.
Whether in Chicago or NYC. Too bad they've copied it for Jeddah's Kingdom Tower already, but well... we shouldn't drift apart from this thread's topic.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 11:51 PM   #69
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We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. -Winston Churchill

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