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Old July 9th, 2015, 02:09 PM   #21
M-NL
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50 non-interoperable ERTMS dialects

This RailJournal article contains two interesting quotes:
Quote:
We have replaced around 20 national signalling systems in Europe with 50 non-interoperable dialects of ERTMS, something we should not be very proud of
The Netherlands alone accounts for 5 of those 'dialects': HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute, Havenspoorlijn, Amsterdam-Utrecht and Hanzelijn all operate slightly different. This Dutch article already discusses the confusion this causes for the drivers.
Quote:
In aviation there are only two main families of short-to-medium range single aisle airliners: the Boeing 737 with around 4000 planes in service and the Airbus 320 with about 3000 units in operation. By comparison, there are seven types of TGV in service in France alone, including single and double-deck, with a fleet of 550 trains, while in Japan the Shinkansen family comprises approximately 600 trains.
Very poor example. The author fails to mention (or didn't realise) that the Boeing 737 consists of 4 generations (original, classic, next and MAX), of which pilots are allowed to fly one at a time to avoid confusion. On the other hand SNCF TGV drivers could drive most, if not, any of those 550 TGVs without limitation. I assume Shinkansen drivers are also trained to operate any model used by their railway company as well.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 02:30 PM   #22
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Yeah, that second quote isn't really relevant. The first one though is very much so. The whole point of ERTMS was to create a single system, not split things up even more.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 07:45 PM   #23
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The problem was caused by UNIFE/UNISIG releasing incomplete specifications.
Even now with the newest versions of baseline 3(3.4.0?) they are still far from complete. Manufacturers will fill in the gaps to create something working, of course not caring for interoperability. An Alstom STM, for example, will probably not work with a Bombardier EVC, because of a different interface specification.
They're getting there, just not any time soon.
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Old July 9th, 2015, 10:22 PM   #24
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Well, unfortunately in Spain something we know about communication problems between different manufacturers and different versions of ERTMS.
But still, every day these versions connected together:

On board, installer and software version:

S-104 Alstom 2.2.2
S-100/114/465 Alstom 2.3.0d
S-120/121 Ansaldo 2.2.2
S-130/730 Bombardier 3.1.1.2 (ex 3.1.0.1 ex 2.3.0d)
S-102/112/103/252 Siemens 2.2.2
S-450/446/447: Siemens (Invensys-Dimetronic) 2.3.0d

Track, installer and software version:

2006 Madrid-Lleida: Ansaldo 2.2.2+ (2.3.0d)
2007 Madrid-Valladolid: Thales 2.2.2+ (2.3.0d)
2007 Córdoba-Málaga: Siemens (Invensys-Dimetronic) 2.2.2+
2007 Madrid-Sevilla: NSTM para traducir el LZB
2008 Lleida-Barcelona: Thales 2.2.2+ (2.3.0d)
2008 La Sagra-Toledo: Thales
2009 Zaragoza-Huesca: Alstom 2.2.2+
2010 Figueres-Perpignan: Ansaldo 2.3.0.
2010 Torrejón de Velasco-Valencia y Albacete: Siemens (Invensys-Dimetronic) 2.3.0.d
2011 Ourense-Santiago: Thales 2.3.0.d
2012 Cercanías Madrid C4: Siemens (Dimetronic) (Norte)-Thales (Sur) 2.3.0.d (N2 otoño 2015)
2013 Barcelona-Figueres: Thales 2.3.0d (Can Tunis-Mollet y Girona-Figueres: Alstom Atlas)
2014 Albacete-Alicante (solo N2): Alstom 2.3.0d
2016 Valladolid-León/Burgos (solo N2): Alstom (Atlas 200)
2016 Olmedo-Zamora (solo N2):
2016 Antequera-Granada (solo N2): Siemens
2016 Variante de Pajares (solo N2): Thales
2017 Eje Atlántico Coruña-Vigo (N1 sin GSM-R):
2017 Cercanías Barcelona R1 (solo N2):
201? Albacete-La Encina (N1 y 2): Bombardier

However there is something else, which is that, apart from the ERTMS, keep a backup system (in Spain the ASFA) which finally forced to wear a different system for each country.
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Old July 10th, 2015, 12:42 AM   #25
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From Ethiopian Rail Projects thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...845760&page=28

Quote:
The goal of the 375km line is to support the economic development of the Ethiopian hinterland. The link between the fertile south and the resource-rich north starts in Awash, 986m above sea level, climbs to Kombolcha at 1842m and finally reaches Hara Gebeya, close to Weldiya at 2122m above sea level.
...........
Bombardier is installing ETCS Level 1 on the line. The $US 41m contract awarded by Yepi Merkezi also includes the supply of lineside signalling, interlockings, level crossing equipment, and CTC. ABB is supplying substations and power supply equipment in a $US€18.3m deal.
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...o-reality.html
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Old July 10th, 2015, 02:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
On board, installer and software version:
Track, installer and software version:

However there is something else, which is that, apart from the ERTMS, keep a backup system (in Spain the ASFA) which finally forced to wear a different system for each country.
Wow, that's a lot of versions. How do they handle the fact that ERTMS on board equipment is only one version backward compatible (You can't drive a baseline 3 train on a 2.2.2 track)? And that the track isn't backward compatible at all (you can't drive a 2.2.2 train on a 2.3.0 track)? Or is equipment restricted to certain lines to avoid this problem?

A backup system isn't all the rage either. It is the lack of protection by ASFA that contributed to the Santiago de Compostella accident. Most legacy systems do not even allow high speeds.
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Old July 10th, 2015, 09:02 PM   #27
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In fact, the trains run every day for all lines, especially the S-121 and S-130, without noteworthy problems. The homologations are inherently difficult.

What I meant is that it is good to have ERTMS across the continent, but trains must also take local backup system, because there is no single system backup. Thus no interoperability.

Santiago's case is much more complicated, at least for my (bad) level of English.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 11:11 AM   #28
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Another interesting article, this time on RailEngineer.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 01:28 PM   #29
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The article refers to the problems of implementation of the ERTMS (ETCS 3, GSM-R is 2G, compatibility of software and ETML: European Traffic Management Layer, and the cost, of course).

But still do not mention that the trains should also bear own backup system in each country or in each line.

GSM-R Band 900 Uplink (MHz): 876,0 - 880,0 Downlink: 921,0 - 925,0

Last edited by Gusiluz; September 1st, 2015 at 01:34 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 02:45 PM   #30
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An article from june:
http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/06/0...ionwide-ertms/
Quote:
Like many other countries, Norway has a problem with ageing signalling equipment and needs to undertake modernisation. The infrastructure manager, Jernbaneverket, has taken the decision to adopt ERTMS nationwide with a project lasting from the present day until 2030. It is only the second country to have taken this bold step and it has been influenced in part by its near neighbour, Denmark, which made a similar pronouncement back in 2012.
And yesterday they launched the first ERTMS line!
http://www.jernbaneverket.no/Nyheter...a-ostre-linje/
in Norwegian, you might wanna google translate it.
It's the eastern branch of the Östfold-line. That's the line going from Oslo towards Gothenburg (i.e. to Sweden). The eastern branch is not the main branch and is single track. Will be interesting to see if it affects anything at all. I'm guessing it's mostly to test it in production
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Old April 19th, 2016, 05:02 PM   #31
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More Norway:
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Old October 5th, 2016, 10:55 AM   #32
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ERTMS in France

I'm looking for information about the ERTMS in France.

According to the map of SNCF Reseau 2017 (09/2016) there is only ERTMS (ETCS 2 software version 2.2.2+) on the LGV Est from Baudrecourt (southeast of Metz) and Vaires (23.5 km from Paris).
On the website of the LGV Rhin-Rhône he says he does have.
It is installed but not yet in service?

There ETCS 1 (with software version 2.3.0.d) between Perpignan and Figueras (Spain) since 19/10/2010.

In this article from IRJ explain that in the LGV Est is preferably used ERTMS before the TVM 430, so, not only 5 ICE 3MF but also Euroduplex 3UA normally circulate with ERTMS to 320 km/h?
The 12/17/2013 the EPSF authorized the ERTMS on the LGV Est and it is in commercial service since December 2014; It was delayed by problems with GSM-R.

On the website of the LGV SEA (Sud Europe Atlantique, opening scheduled for 07.02.2017) explain that the only signaling line is the ERTMS (ETCS 2) and TVM 300. And the maximum speed at the start will be 320 km/h although the line allows 350. So when the 40 Euroduplex 3UF traveling at 320 km/h will be done -mandatorily- with ERTMS, the TVM 300 is for TGV Atlantique trains, while supplies last. 24 Duplex trains to go to the LGV SEA, they have ERTMS? DASY or DASYE?

Exactly the same (ERTMS + TVM 300 and 320/350 km/h) in the case of LGV BPL (Bretagne Pays de la Loire) between Mans and Rennes also from 02/07/2017.
In the contours of Mans and, in the LGV Med, in Nimes and Montpellier will only ETCS 1. In this line will put TVN 430 to give continuity?

Here I have a map of projects for 2020, although it is somewhat old (There is another new?).


It will be installed in the freight corridor # 2 between Longuyon / Bettembourg and Bâle at the end of 2018; You will ETCS 2 software version 2.3.0.d.
European Freight corridor in France:
-Bâle-Mulhouse-Strasbourg-Metz-Thionville
-Lyon-Dijon-Metz
-Perpiñán-Modena, via Langedoc arc, the Rhone Valley, Lyon et Chambéry.

http://transportrail.canalblog.com/p.../34301115.html
http://transportrail.canalblog.com/p.../34301115.html

Thank you very much for contributions!
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Old October 5th, 2016, 11:55 AM   #33
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Some good news from Denmark.
http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2...on-in-denmark/
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Old October 5th, 2016, 04:33 PM   #34
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In Great Britain, ERTMS will be rolled out on sections of the East Coast and Great Western Mainlines. The only ERTMS lines that we currently have are the Cambrian Coast line and Cambrian mainline from Aberystwyth and Pwllheli to Shrewsbury. The only ERTMS fitted stock as of 2016 are the 20+ Arriva Trains Wales Class 158 Express sprinter DMUs, four Network Class 97/3 locomotives and one or two West Coast Railway Class 37s.
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Old November 5th, 2016, 01:54 PM   #35
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Current and future situation of the ERTMS in the world

Well, I finally finished some messages in Spanish on the current and future situation of ERTMS on France, on Germany, on Spain, the rest of the world, some statistics on the extent of ERTMS in the world, news on the ETCS 3 and something about the GSM-R.

Unfortunately, I have finished completely saturated with the theme of ERTMS and, for me, translate these messages is a task that surpasses me. Messages have sources in French, English and German. In any case there are many numbers, maps and graphics. If someone is interested in something concrete, provide more or indicate any possible error, do not hesitate to comment.

UNIFE (Union des Industries Ferroviaires Européennes), the employers in the industry of railway systems, has a website with links in English about the ERTMS, but there is not Germany nor France, nor explain too:
Belgium and Netherlands
Denmark
Spain
Italy
UK
Sweden
Switzerland
Outside Europe
Turkey
Middle East
Magreb
Sub-Saharan Africa
International freight corridors TEN-T
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Old November 5th, 2016, 07:21 PM   #36
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In the PDF about Belgium and The Netherlands:
Quote:
The
Netherlands has also opted for ERTMS to be installed in a commuter line: Amsterdam-Utrecht
(30 km, 4-lanes). This line, where the legacy system “ATB” was installed, is now operated with
ERTMS level 2. Lastly the new “Hanzelijn” line, connecting the cities of Lelystad and Zwolle, is
fully equipped with ERTMS level 2 and in operation since the end of 2012.
Those lines are equipped with ERTMS, but as far as I know, it's not used by trains yet. A while back they built ERTMS into some SLT's and did some tests, but that's about it.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this
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Old November 6th, 2016, 11:23 AM   #37
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At the Amsterdam - Utrecht line ERTMS is in service, and trains equipped with the ETCS can use it. Currently, the only trains using ETCS are the ICE trains (thanks to ETCS, the speed limit is raised for that train to 160 km/h) and freight trains also use the ETCS system.
The Hanzelijn ERTMS is also in service, but currently the trains using ETCS, are using it for test runs only. There are no commercial trains equipped with ETCS on that section.
Trains have to be converted for ERTMS use, and there is a lot of money involved in that.
Last I've heard is that a project has started for the conversion of the existing trains. But with the way the railways work, it will take years and years to do that.
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Old November 6th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #38
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Holland

The 2014 plan was setting equipped with ETCS 2 all trains in 2022 and the entire network in 2028, but in January 2016 announced the delay of these plans, pending re-evaluation.
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Old November 6th, 2016, 10:29 PM   #39
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And that while the Netherlands, despite its good safety record, is in dire need for ERTMS implementation: the urge seems small at first sight, but 140 is slow for IC trains even in our small country. Three lines couls be used with 200kph and even more easily 160kph but our current signalling doesn't allow that. The difference of even as little as ten minutes could make the difference between Eindhoven commuting to Amsterdam or staying in Eindhoven talking about 60-80 minutes. Or the other way around for the smart workforce.

So yes, it is a speed question here as well on non-HST lines.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 01:59 PM   #40
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Even with ERTMS the majority of lines still have overhead lines using a fixed carrier/catenary/messenger wire and thus don't allow speeds over 140 km/h.
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