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Old February 14th, 2005, 10:47 PM   #21
NWside
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The building would seem incomplete without the spire, it was incorporated in the original design and it should stay that way. As for Chicago having "too many spires" I can only think of two buildings that include them...
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Old February 15th, 2005, 01:40 AM   #22
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I like it, but the tower itself looks different from what I thought it was. I thought it was more rounded on the left side?
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Old February 15th, 2005, 07:12 AM   #23
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I'm mixed on the new rendering. It looks "okay." but regardless, great news for Chicago.

I just noticed that Chicago now blows NY away in the number of skyscrapers.

Something like 7 or 8 of the top 10 tallest in America is now in Chicago.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 07:22 AM   #24
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Not number, just height of the tallest^
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Old February 16th, 2005, 02:09 AM   #25
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The rendering below is not a new rendering... This rendering was released in late 2003 or early 2004. The finalized rendering has yet to be released, you guys need to re-read the article in the first post of this thread more carefully. Hopefully the finilized renderings will be released soon.

And as mentioned, not that many Chicago buildings have spires.

Sears Tower---anteanna(not counted as part of height)
John Hancock Center---anteanna(not counted as part of height)
AT&T Corporate Center---spire(counted in the height)
Prudential Plaza---spire(counted in the height)
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Old February 16th, 2005, 07:13 AM   #26
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personally, i don't think the transformation of the building's antenna into a spire is going to do much to the building. i mean, a carefully designed antenna can still serve just as well of an architectural pinnacle as a spire.

i also agree that chicago is a pretty darn spire-free city. of the buildings over 200m in chicago, only at&t corp center, 2 prudential plaza, and chicago titles & trusts building have spires, and among them, only at&t corp center have spires that are really overpowering in terms of looks.
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Old February 17th, 2005, 02:11 PM   #27
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dont mind the spire at all suits the look of the tower
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Old February 18th, 2005, 04:13 AM   #28
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hopefully its not like the freedom tower..
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Old February 18th, 2005, 04:21 AM   #29
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Awesome building. I love that spire
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Old February 19th, 2005, 10:32 PM   #30
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I think the spire is a great addition, but they should make it less antenna looking, something more grander and bigger like on the Bank of America building in Atlanta. It should be a pyramidish thing, that actually looks like part of the building, then I can actually say we have something taller than the Empire State Building.
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Old February 19th, 2005, 10:47 PM   #31
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The only rendering I can see is the old one where it still has the antenna. I think the old tower looks pretty funky actually... lets hope the new one is a step forward.
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Old February 20th, 2005, 05:51 PM   #32
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Thats it, I'm moving to Chi-town lol
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Old February 25th, 2005, 06:39 AM   #33
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Trump may aspire to top Petronas Towers

February 24, 2005

BY DAVID ROEDER Business Reporter


Reaching just a little higher for international acclaim, Donald Trump is pondering whether to make his new Chicago building taller than even the twin Petronas Towers in Malaysia.

It's a matter of how tall to make the spire for his new Trump International Hotel & Tower at 401 N. Wabash, the former site of the Sun-Times Building.

With his architects at Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP, Trump is looking at spire configurations that would qualify the building as being taller than Sears Tower, and hence the tallest in the United States.

But a top source at the Trump Organization said the developer might aim higher -- literally -- and try to top Petronas as well. There's only a 33-foot height difference between Sears and the Petronas towers.

"We are studying the possibility of a building taller than Sears and possibly beyond that," the source said. "The decision should be made over the next month or so."

Trump is not shooting for the title of world's tallest, currently in the hands of the 1,670-foot Taipei 101 building in Taiwan. Exceeding Petronas in official measurements would require something at least 1,483 feet tall.

None of the spire alternatives involves increasing the size of the occupied portion of the new condo and hotel complex, where Trump has reported more than $600 million in sales. The spire would be ornamental but technically part of the structure and therefore figure in the height measurement.

Current plans put the 92-story building at 1,360 feet, some 90 feet short of the Sears mark.

The source said the various spire plans could add from $2 million to $5 million to the cost of the $750 million project. City approval would be needed to change the height, but the source said City Hall already has offered positive reviews.

Spokeswoman Connie Buscemi of the city's planning department denied matters have gone that far but confirmed enthusiasm for the idea. "We haven't seen the design yet, but we'd certainly look forward to it and be amenable to changes," she said.

When conceiving the project in 2001, Trump had the "world's tallest" title in mind but abandoned that goal after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 that year.

Fears about skyscrapers being terrorist targets have subsided since then and buyer demand for tall buildings has increased, the Trump source said. "The tall building is back in vogue. It's like fashion. It's like dress sizes," he said.

All claims to height records, however, would be shattered if a proposed 1,776-foot building at Ground Zero in Manhattan wins approval from New York authorities and is built.

PETRONAS TOWERS
KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA
Stories:
88
Height: 1,483 feet

TRUMP INTERNATIONAL HOTEL & TOWER
CHICAGO
Stories:
92 (current proposal)
Height: 1,360 (current proposal
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Old February 25th, 2005, 06:42 AM   #34
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Trump aspires to new heights
With a taller spire, tycoon's skyscraper could overtake Sears Tower to become tallest in North America

By James Janega and Gary Washburn
Tribune staff reporters
Published February 24, 2005

First Donald Trump wanted to do away with a decorative spire atop his hotel and condominium tower on the Chicago River. Then Mayor Richard Daley asked him to put it back on the building's plans.

Now The Donald, seemingly unable to resist associating his name with the word "tallest," is setting his sights on an even taller spire, one that could make his Chicago tower the tallest skyscraper in North America.

On Wednesday, City Hall said it was thinking big, too.

Connie Buscemi, a spokeswoman for the city's planning department, confirmed that Trump and the city are in discussions about a taller tower.

"We have not seen the proposal yet, but if this indeed is what they are planning to submit, we certainly are amenable to it," said Buscemi.

The proposed changes to the design come as demolition crews knock down the final pieces of the former Chicago Sun-Times building on the site.

The idea marks only the latest major turnaround in the tower's height and shape. Less than two weeks ago, Trump's architects said the building with the spire would be no taller than 1,360 feet.

Now that height could grow, creeping back toward Trump's first plan to build the world's tallest building.

That original 2,000-foot tower design was dramatically scaled back to a blocky 78-story high-rise after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

And as recently as last year, he appeared satisfied to have a sleek tower of 1,125 feet, a design 2 feet shorter than the John Hancock Center, which would have made Trump's tower the city's fourth-tallest building.

But Trump is now less concerned that a tall building would be a target and is aiming for the sky again. For Daley, it would be a trophy as well, a building taller than the 1,450-foot Sears Tower built in 1974 during his father's administration.

Officials involved in the project, speaking on condition of anonymity, said new plans would extend a spire at least 326 feet above the building, outreaching the Sears Tower, currently the nation's tallest.

Communications antennas do not count in a building's overall height, according to the Chicago-based Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat, the international arbiter of height rules. The council counts decorative spires as part of a building's height, however. A spire that doesn't look much different from an antenna would just have to surpass the roofline of the Sears Tower for the building to be taller.

Another version for the top of the Trump tower would add at least another 33 feet above that, bringing the top of the spire to at least 1,484 feet, a foot taller than the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, currently the second-tallest in the world.

The building's neighbors have concerns, however. Like most of Trump's negotiations with City Hall, plans that would redraw Chicago's skyline have been kept out of the public eye.

Ald. Burton Natarus (42nd), who represents the ward where the new skyscraper will be built, said he knows nothing about the proposed increase in height and expressed frustration with the way Trump has handled the project.

"Trump goes ahead and does anything he wants," the alderman said.

Natarus said neither Trump nor City Hall has talked to owners in the neighboring condo high-rise at 405 N. Wabash Ave.

"I am concerned about the height and how they will control density, how they will control traffic, and whether or not they extend [their] garden onto the property of 405 N. Wabash," Natarus said.

If he decides he doesn't like the final plan, Natarus said he has options.

"Even though it might end up in litigation, I can file an ordinance repealing the whole thing," he said, stopping short of saying he would. "I don't know if it will pass, but I can file an ordinance."

Should Trump seek "administrative changes" in the project, such as a height alteration, "I'm in a position to challenge some of that," Natarus said.

The proposed changes happen against a flurry of tallest-building construction around the globe. After booms in the United States--mostly in New York and Chicago--during the 1920s and 1970s, Asian countries and Persian Gulf states have flexed their muscles over the last decade.

Because of that, the world's tallest building are safely out of reach even for The Donald and The Mayor: Taipei 101 is 1,667 feet tall. Looming on the horizon in 2009 is the Burj Dubai, under construction in the United Arab Emirates, which is expected to top 2,000 feet.

Even if Trump decides to top the Sears Tower and the city grants its approval, his Chicago skyscraper might not be the nation's tallest for long.

The Freedom Tower at ground zero in New York, designed with the symbolic height of 1,776 feet to evoke the year the Declaration of Independence was signed, is scheduled to be completed in 2009, said Elizabeth Kubany, a spokeswoman for the New York City office of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, which designed the project.

Trump's tower, designed by Skidmore's Chicago office, is expected to be finished in 2007.

Yet the top of the Freedom Tower is shrouded in uncertainty. Lead designer David Childs of Skidmore's New York office has made clear his distaste for the 276-foot spire atop the skyscraper, which was forced on him by New York Gov. George Pataki after Childs and ground zero master planner Daniel Libeskind engaged in a public spat about the tower's design.

Engineering and financing problems appear to threaten the Freedom Tower spire. Larry Silverstein, the tower's developer, has objected to paying for a network of cables atop the skyscraper and said recently of the tower's upper reaches: "We're in a vacuum in regard to that part of the building."

Freedom Tower would be 1,500 feet tall without the spire.

That likely would be taller than Trump's Chicago tower--unless, of course, Trump decided to make his spire even taller.

Tribune architecture critic Blair Kamin contributed to this report
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Old February 25th, 2005, 06:48 AM   #35
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Great! I never understood the spire versus occupied top height battle issue. You know this:





If a spire gets higher than the roof of a tower with full occupied height, it is taller! It's how it has always been done. Only after the Sears did this get taboo. (And by spire I mean decorative spire, not just an antenna) If Trump overtakes the top of the Petronas, he will have the second tallest building in the world in my mind.
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Old February 25th, 2005, 07:42 AM   #36
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I say we go to roof heights. This spire business is getting out of hand.
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Old February 25th, 2005, 10:35 AM   #37
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But that's how things have always been done; Chrysler, Empire, Petronas, Taipei 101! Not including antennas, if someone puts a spire an inch above your flat topped building, deep shit. Am I wrong?
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Old February 25th, 2005, 07:02 PM   #38
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I think that a spire can often enhance the appearance of a building (as it does in this case), but it still shouldn't be included in the height for purposes of comparison with other buildings.
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Old February 25th, 2005, 07:12 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town
I think that a spire can often enhance the appearance of a building (as it does in this case), but it still shouldn't be included in the height for purposes of comparison with other buildings.
agreed. that said, i would like to see trump have a spire taller than petronas - just to spite the cheating bastards!

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Old February 25th, 2005, 07:23 PM   #40
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Trump's spire plan up in air for a while

By James Janega
Tribune staff reporter
Published February 25, 2005

Donald Trump, in Chicago to talk with financial backers of his proposed hotel and condominium tower, said Thursday it could be as long as two months before final plans are agreed on for the spire that will determine the look and height of the top the building.

Drilling for the building's foundation caissons is under way, despite the remaining questions between Trump and City Hall.

Trump has been involved in protracted negotiations with the city about the look of the top of the building. Mayor Richard Daley has said he favors designs for the building that include a spire, and Trump recently agreed.

Questions remain on how high it will be. On Wednesday, the city said Trump has been in negotiation with Chicago officials about whether to add to the 1,125-foot design a spire tall enough to surpass the height of the 1,450-foot Sears Tower, perhaps by as much as 100 feet.

"I think we'll make a decision along with the representatives of the city and the mayor over the next 60 days as to whether or not we want to go to the extra height," Trump said Thursday at the construction site. "It will be a little bit different top. It builds up--not very much different--and the spire would be taller."

In addition to the decorative spire on top, two extra floors recently were added to the original plan without increasing the building's height. Building innovations in the design by the Chicago office of architecture firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill eliminated the need to place concrete floor slabs atop steel beams.

If the city approves the new plans, the Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago would join the tallest buildings in the city, well above the 1,136-foot Aon Center and the 1,127-foot John Hancock Center.

It would be comparable in its vertical reach, if not scale, to the Sears Tower, the nation's tallest building. New York City's 1,250-foot Empire State Building is, after the Sears, the nation's runner-up.

Negotiations over the spire would have no effect on demolition and foundation work at the site where the Chicago Sun-Times building once stood at 401 N. Wabash Ave.

Some $600 million has been raised for the proposed $750 million, 92-story residential office tower, Trump said.

"The caissons are very beefy caissons," he said. "The caissons are enough to support whatever we put on top."

Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune
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