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Old January 20th, 2015, 12:36 AM   #1
Thefancydanhimself
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Dalymount Park Redevelopment

A former Irish icon, not a very dilapidated ground.

Talk are ongoing between Dublin Country Council, Bohemians and Shelbourne in a move that will apparently see Bohs and Shels share a redeveloped Daylmount Park.
The council are proposing to settle the debts of the clubs in order acquire both Dalymount and Tolka Park; a move that would see Daymount redeveloped and Tolka Park made into residential units.

Stadium redevlopment would likely receive money from the FAI and possibly the government too. The FAI are guaranteed a certain amount of funds from UEFA from Dublin being one of the host cities of Euro 2020
DCC are keen to see the stadium kept as a municipal stadium with the possibility of staging concerts and other sports.


http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...park-1.2063377
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Old January 20th, 2015, 05:23 PM   #2
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Interesting proposal. I hope DCC already own or plan to acquire other properties surrounding Dalymount because the site itself is very restricted and no doubt the neighbours will fight any redevelopment. A stadium with no road frontage is odd, especially for a new stadium and access will be an issue. If certain adjoining properties can be acquired and if planned in conjunction with a redevelopment of Phibsborough shopping centre, it could be a decent stadium, if buried behind poorly kept houses it would be crap.

I cant help but think that Tolka with its river side site would be a better location for the stadium although that site is also restricted albeit not by adjoining properties which might be easier to overcome.

Having two permanent tenants would be good and the FAI will surely use it for under age internationals etc. but its hard to see what other uses there will be for the stadium. Tallaght hasn’t hosted any concerts and there is no rugby in the area, hopefully DCU and DIT would be able to use the stadium regularly as they are both nearby.

In an ideal world, Parnell Park could be thrown into the pot and a stadium which can also accommodate smaller Dublin GAA games could be developed.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 06:42 PM   #3
Thefancydanhimself
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Quote:
I cant help but think that Tolka with its river side site would be a better location for the stadium although that site is also restricted albeit not by adjoining properties which might be easier to overcome.
Tolka Park seems to suffer from flooding and a water logged pitch.
Also, as the former home of Irish Football, the FAI (i.e. John Delaney) is very hot for Dalymount to be redeveloped.

DCC are probably recognizing this and hoping that the FAI will provide a substantial part of the finance for its redevelopment.

Quote:
Having two permanent tenants would be good and the FAI will surely use it for under age internationals etc. but its hard to see what other uses there will be for the stadium. Tallaght hasn’t hosted any concerts and there is no rugby in the area, hopefully DCU and DIT would be able to use the stadium regularly as they are both nearby.
Having two tenants will mean games almost every week. Also, Tallaght has a fire cert for 26,000 which means they could host concerts if they wanted to but haven't chosen to. Possibly because it is in the far bottom corner of Dublin.

Dalymount is a lot more central and could be the only venue in DCC area that could host such an event
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Old March 19th, 2015, 01:21 AM   #4
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They discussed the redevelopment of Dalymount, selling Tolka Park and the ultimate ground sharing by Bohs and Shels on Off The Ball this evening. The guy from the Shels supporters club said there is still a lot of unanswered questions in relation to how it will work and the terms of the ground share, etc. All guests seemed to be in agreement that a new stadium in a neutral location would be a better solution. They also went for the old chestnut that it should be built beside the M50, along with everything else the city has to offer. I get the impression that this project still has a lot of hurdles to clear and a lot of stakeholders to appease so I don't think we will see any major developments any time soon.
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Old March 19th, 2015, 02:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
They discussed the redevelopment of Dalymount, selling Tolka Park and the ultimate ground sharing by Bohs and Shels on Off The Ball this evening. The guy from the Shels supporters club said there is still a lot of unanswered questions in relation to how it will work and the terms of the ground share, etc. All guests seemed to be in agreement that a new stadium in a neutral location would be a better solution. They also went for the old chestnut that it should be built beside the M50, along with everything else the city has to offer. I get the impression that this project still has a lot of hurdles to clear and a lot of stakeholders to appease so I don't think we will see any major developments any time soon.
Have they even addressed the "rights of way" and boundary issues?! Those are the reasons the original €60 million deal didn't go ahead.

In addition, like posters above I'm not convinced that there is actually room to develop Dalymount adecutely. Its hemmed in both ends, especially by the relatively recently constructed school buildings. And access can be a problem from all angles. Moreover, the proximity of houses along each side where the bulk of the fans could be accommodated will limit the height and massing of any potential new stands.

Thinking outside the box....Shels were originally from Ringsend. Back in the 20s their ground where Ringsend Athletic track is now, could accommodate 25k! A return there is not a runner (excuse the pun) but its notable that the Southeast of the City doesn't have a proper team (I'm deliberately not including UCD). There is a large potential population of supporters along with decent ready made facilities at the likes of Donnybrook. Would a return to its roots be out of the question. This would result in a clearer demarcation of territory between the big-4 in Dublin.

C
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Old March 20th, 2015, 01:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebig C View Post

Have they even addressed the "rights of way" and boundary issues?! Those are the reasons the original €60 million deal didn't go ahead.

In addition, like posters above I'm not convinced that there is actually room to develop Dalymount adecutely. Its hemmed in both ends, especially by the relatively recently constructed school buildings. And access can be a problem from all angles. Moreover, the proximity of houses along each side where the bulk of the fans could be accommodated will limit the height and massing of any potential new stands.

Thinking outside the box....Shels were originally from Ringsend. Back in the 20s their ground where Ringsend Athletic track is now, could accommodate 25k! A return there is not a runner (excuse the pun) but its notable that the Southeast of the City doesn't have a proper team (I'm deliberately not including UCD). There is a large potential population of supporters along with decent ready made facilities at the likes of Donnybrook. Would a return to its roots be out of the question. This would result in a clearer demarcation of territory between the big-4 in Dublin.

C
There was no mention of any right of way although it was said that DCC actually own the freehold on the ground Tolka Park is built on and something about getting the leasehold back. I don't know anything about a right of way issue but afaik bits of Dalymount have been sold over the years and there was a dispute over what they actually own. The fact that the stadium is basically surrounded will make getting pp for a new stadium almost impossible. I genuinely cant see the current plan getting anywhere any time soon. It would seem that Tolka is the more realistic prospect but that is not what it on the table.

Have Liam Carrolls loans on Phibsborough shopping centre been sold yet? Perhaps they are better off bundling Dalymount with that and selling it for a mixed use development as such a site would have huge potential and would be worth a pretty penny. Selling Dalymount might actually release the capital needed to build a new stadium.

As for relocating Shels to Donnybrook, these clubs are barely viable without having to rent their stadium. A good site for a shared stadium would be at DCC owned land at the Ballymun Road entrance to DCU. It is between both Bohs and Shels support bases and will have good transport links if we ever build MN.
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Old March 20th, 2015, 04:27 AM   #7
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Not Albert College Park, it's one of the best parks in Dublin
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Old March 21st, 2015, 02:23 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Insert username here View Post
Not Albert College Park, it's one of the best parks in Dublin
Yes, I am hoping in the future the state will acquire the farm beside it to extend the park.
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 09:28 PM   #9
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Its a bit dispiriting really that another ground must be sold off for development. Tolka Park has great history in its own right and for it to be bulldozed and another bland block of flats put in its place doesn't sit right with me. Football grounds like these should be preserved if at all possible. I agree with thebig C, Shelbourne F.C should look to return to Ringsend. It would help them establish themselves with their original fanbase.

In regards to Dalymount, there is space to play with but any development would need to be incorporated into a larger plan with the shopping centre. Accessibility to the stadium has always been restricted.Theres enough space for a decent 10,000 seater stadium in Dublin.

Last edited by hitmanhart; March 22nd, 2015 at 10:31 PM.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 12:32 PM   #10
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I'd hate to see Tolka Park go, its a proper old League of Ireland ground with the obligatory totally unsymmetrical stand behind the goal. But saying that, with Dalymount and Bohs just a mile or two down the road is a constant struggle for the two clubs. Buts if its a toss up between Tolka and Dalymount, the latter will always win.

Has there been any plans released or is it all talk at the moment?
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Old March 28th, 2015, 07:36 PM   #11
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This is the reality of top level soccer in this country. It is very poorly run, from the FAI who pay that clown Delaney €400,000 a year to the league which cant even establish its own identity to the clubs at least one of whom constantly seems to be on the brink of bankruptcy. They all need to get their act together. If DCC step in to provide a stadium for two clubs to share, they should be grateful.

There are no real plans at all yet, as I mentioned above, even the clubs involved dont know what the arrangements will be.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 07:09 PM   #12
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Some movement on this project;

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...park-1.2232262

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Dublin City Council and Bohemians have agreed the main terms of a deal that will pave the way for Dalymount Park to be taken into public ownership and redeveloped over time as a home for the club and major public amenity for the Phibsborough area.
The ongoing difficulties in securing control of Tolka Park, however, has resulted in it and Shelbourne being dropped from the deal. The council abandoned its previous position that both grounds had to be involved for it to proceed.
I would imagine every attempt will be made to bring Shelbourne back into the deal.

We might find out a bit more about the proposal in the new Phibsborough area plan; http://www.irishtimes.com/news/envir...ough-1.2233868
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 08:20 PM   #13
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Any chance they could nick this from Bray Wanderers

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Bray - Carlisle Grounds Redevelopment

Do you have any information?




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Old June 3rd, 2015, 03:36 AM   #14
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It would be an idea to nick the Bray Wanderers proposal alright. Phibsboro is fringe city centre and is appropriate for a 14 storey development.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 09:16 PM   #15
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I just can't see there being enough space to accommodate a reasonably good development. Particularly given that not all of the neighbouring land owners are on board. And remember, in light of recent planning difficulties, this is a very awkward site with all sorts of access issues.

C
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Old June 4th, 2015, 10:59 PM   #16
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Well in fact the site is pretty big in terms of its footprint (If you include Phibsborough Shopping Centre). The issues will come in relation to the height of the buildings considering all the houses which are beside it.
Whether they can get enough height in to include a shopping centre and a redeveloped stadium is going to be the main issue

Last edited by Thefancydanhimself; June 4th, 2015 at 11:18 PM.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 11:01 PM   #17
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A look at Dalymount on Google earth shows that the site is not suitable for a modern stadium given the poor access. The site including the Phibsborough Shopping Centre and Dalymount would be perfect for a modern mix use development with a public square. With the number of new residents talked about in the article and the Luas to open in a few years it could create a new urban quarter and would drag the city centre north.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 12:03 AM   #18
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http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0608/706656-dalymount-park/

So the councillors have approved the purchase of Dalymount. Not sure what's in it for them, they spend €3.8m just to buy it and then have to fund the redevelopment of a new stadium. The cost could be €15m before a ball is kicked in the new stadium, which will no doubt taken several years. Seems like a lot of money and effort for what will be a limited stadium.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 01:59 AM   #19
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I think that DCC aren't really interested in the quality of the football stadium. I'd imagine they are looking for a place to host concerts, which can rake in a lot of money. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense without being a full retail/residential redevelopment of the whole Phibsborough site.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 11:28 PM   #20
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I doubt there will be many concerts held in a redeveloped Dalymount Park and any feasibility study relying on multiple concerts annually would be very flawed. There are already numerous established outdoor concert venues in better locations around the city who the promoters are familiar with. Also I would expect the capacity of Dalymount to be very limited given how restricted the site is.
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